Archived Topic

Quarterback Race, Ashworth Interview

by jonnylingo · 2/19/2010

snoscythe

2/21/2010, 7:18:22 AM

QuarterbackU wrote:
QuarterbackU wrote:
this is just the herald trying to spin Ashworth's comments into a "compelling comparison of the QB's" to get more hits on their website. This article was a just a tease. Ashworth would not say anything meaningful about the QB race right now. It was 100% politically correct. Unfortunately we will have to wait till spring to see how things are really going unless one of you will go sit on the second floor of the student athlete building and try to get a glimpse of how these guys are throwing and interacting with the wide outs. Who would like to do that? Any takers? When it comes to timing, this is a bit over rated in my opinion, because each QB knows how to throw the ball and knows how to take his drops and understands how to progress from route to route. Timing will not be an issue with any of them, this isn't junior high and Ashworth knows that. It would have been just as valuable if Ashworth would have pointed out how critical it is to throw a spiral and have good footwork....means nothing. Go Heaps.

I humbly disagree.

Timing means EVERYTHING to this offense. The windows are small and passing lanes are narrow. Knowing exactly where each receiver will be at each point in your progression is exactly what makes this offense run, and why a senior BYU QB is nearly unstoppable. Timing is the reason coaches use stop watches at practice.

A QB in this system will learn how each receiver breaks, when he breaks, how fast is moves in and out of his breaks, how fast he can accelerate, etc.

I'm just not sure how you can say timing is over-rated.

The reason I'm saying it is because right now timing is a relatively easy thing. They are doing single pass routes, maybe some man to man or an occasional 7 on 7 drill. In these low stress situations a potential starting QB prospect at BYU should have no problem getting the ball their on time, spinning it well and putting some nice touch on it. Of course timing is critical to our offense, but it's over rated right now because they aren't live game situations, there is no pass rush, there isn't much defense to read at all.

Each of them should be very impressive at this stage...

Timing is especially crucial at this stage---they get the timing down now so they can deal with everything else later. If they don't get timing down now, it won't be there in the fall.

Mars

2/21/2010, 7:21:29 AM

snoscythe wrote:
Timing is especially crucial at this stage---they get the timing down now so they can deal with everything else later. If they don't get timing down now, it won't be there in the fall.

No, timing is especially crucial on opening day. Everything else before then is practice to get things as good as possible for opening day.

snoscythe

2/21/2010, 1:05:38 PM

Mars wrote:
Timing is especially crucial at this stage---they get the timing down now so they can deal with everything else later. If they don't get timing down now, it won't be there in the fall.

No, timing is especially crucial on opening day. Everything else before then is practice to get things as good as possible for opening day.

Like I said, if they don't get timing down now, it won't be there in the fall, i.e. opening day.

Mars

2/21/2010, 2:39:18 PM

snoscythe wrote:

No, timing is especially crucial on opening day. Everything else before then is practice to get things as good as possible for opening day.
Like I said, if they don't get timing down now, it won't be there in the fall, i.e. opening day.

I disagree. Munns isn't even in camp right now, and neither are most freshmen QBs across the nation, but any of them could be great when Game 1 rolls around. Timing right now is practically inconsequential, it's so insignificant. If timing RIGHT NOW meant everything, teams wouldn't even practice from here on out...

Fans tend to overstate things.

mcgregor

2/21/2010, 4:22:01 PM

Mars wrote:

Mars wrote:
No, timing is especially crucial on opening day. Everything else before then is practice to get things as good as possible for opening day.
Like I said, if they don't get timing down now, it won't be there in the fall, i.e. opening day.

I disagree. Munns isn't even in camp right now, and neither are most freshmen QBs across the nation, but any of them could be great when Game 1 rolls around. Timing right now is practically inconsequential, it's so insignificant. If timing RIGHT NOW meant everything, teams wouldn't even practice from here on out...

Fans tend to overstate things.

I still politely disagree.

I agree with Quarterback U that each QB knows how to throw. What will eventually separate each QB will be how close they get to perfection. The more familiar they become with each WR the more perfect each pass becomes, and the easier the transition will be once the pads come on.

SpiffCoug

2/21/2010, 4:34:28 PM

I think Bronco and Co understand the importance of timing. It's why they're going to more than likely name a QB coming out of spring ball. They want a leader and the timing to get as much of a head start as possible. They'll also then want their QB to get as many reps as possible in fall camp. It'll be much like the Max Hall situation. He was named the starter after spring ball and then got way more reps than any QB (I seem to remember reading that he was getting like 80-85% of the reps, even at the expense of Gaskins' reps with the backups) to get that timing down and get him as ready as possible for the season.

Bronco said as much on his final coaches show. He wants to name a QB and get that QB as ready as possible.

BroncoBot

2/21/2010, 6:26:03 PM

kitic77 wrote:
I think Bronco and Co understand the importance of timing. It's why they're going to more than likely name a QB coming out of spring ball. They want a leader and the timing to get as much of a head start as possible. They'll also then want their QB to get as many reps as possible in fall camp. It'll be much like the Max Hall situation. He was named the starter after spring ball and then got way more reps than any QB (I seem to remember reading that he was getting like 80-85% of the reps, even at the expense of Gaskins' reps with the backups) to get that timing down and get him as ready as possible for the season.

Bronco said as much on his final coaches show. He wants to name a QB and get that QB as ready as possible.

I agree with Bronco's philosophy. Let the team know who they are going to support before camps form behind different QBs and ruin the chemistry. It would also take unnecessary pressure off all the QBs. They'll still work their hind end off because I'm sure the non-named-starters are going to be gunning for their spot, but at least the winner knows it's his job to lose.

Mars

2/21/2010, 6:50:40 PM

kitic77 wrote:
I think Bronco and Co understand the importance of timing. It's why they're going to more than likely name a QB coming out of spring ball. They want a leader and the timing to get as much of a head start as possible. They'll also then want their QB to get as many reps as possible in fall camp. It'll be much like the Max Hall situation. He was named the starter after spring ball and then got way more reps than any QB (I seem to remember reading that he was getting like 80-85% of the reps, even at the expense of Gaskins' reps with the backups) to get that timing down and get him as ready as possible for the season. Bronco said as much on his final coaches show. He wants to name a QB and get that QB as ready as possible.

There are a lot of IFs involved, since we are all guessing here.

IF Jake Heaps is clearly miles ahead of Nelson and Lark, he will be named the starter early on and BYU will never look back.

IF Nelson looks best early, but Heaps and/or Lark are obviously closing the gap quickly, things become a lot dicier in what Bronco/Doman/Anae do.

snoscythe

2/21/2010, 6:57:25 PM

Mars wrote:

Mars wrote:
No, timing is especially crucial on opening day. Everything else before then is practice to get things as good as possible for opening day.
Like I said, if they don't get timing down now, it won't be there in the fall, i.e. opening day.

I disagree. Munns isn't even in camp right now, and neither are most freshmen QBs across the nation, but any of them could be great when Game 1 rolls around. Timing right now is practically inconsequential, it's so insignificant. If timing RIGHT NOW meant everything, teams wouldn't even practice from here on out...

Fans tend to overstate things.

Timing is the foundation on which everything else is built in the passing game. That foundation has to be laid early, or everything else crumbles around it. It's not the only thing, but at this phase of the season, it's what needs to be worked on.

Mars

2/21/2010, 7:09:29 PM

snoscythe wrote:
Timing is the foundation on which everything else is built in the passing game. That foundation has to be laid early, or everything else crumbles around it. It's not the only thing, but at this phase of the season, it's what needs to be worked on.

There is a big difference between "needs to be worked on" and "finished being working on", is all I'm saying.

snoscythe

2/21/2010, 7:49:06 PM

Mars wrote:
Timing is the foundation on which everything else is built in the passing game. That foundation has to be laid early, or everything else crumbles around it. It's not the only thing, but at this phase of the season, it's what needs to be worked on.

There is a big difference between "needs to be worked on" and "finished being working on", is all I'm saying.

Absolutely agreed. I wasn't trying to argue that Nelson is in the lead to be the starter, nor that the quarterback with the best timing with the corps should be the starter. Sorry if that was what it sounded like. All I was trying to say is that timing is the point of emphasis at this point, not that it is the be-all-end-all.

Mars

2/21/2010, 7:55:04 PM

snoscythe wrote:
All I was trying to say is that timing is the point of emphasis at this point, not that it is the be-all-end-all.

Absolutely. It would be nice to have the guy with the strongest arm start, but only if he's the most accurate as well. Good scrambling ability wouldn't hurt to have either.

Ddawg

2/22/2010, 6:43:00 AM

KYCoug wrote:
Y&Brit wrote:
Heaps will have lots of roll outs and sweet passes, Nelson will have lots of Steve Young breakdown run for lots of yards plays, Maybe the Crowton style isn't the worst thing this year (2 qbs per game)

I'm trying to remember the last successful passing team in which the QBs split their time relatively evenly. I can't really think of any recently. The last good example in BYU history is 1978, when Wilson was a junior and McMahon was a sophomore. It didn't work too well because redshirted McMahon the next year so they could get a full year out of him later.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">

2006 Florida Gators did a pretty good job winning the BCS title with Chris Leak starting and sharing time with freshman Tim Tebow.

Tim who???? Ha-ha-ha-ha!!!! LOL!!!!

:crazy:

Schmoe

2/22/2010, 7:23:41 AM

Ddawg wrote:
Mingjai wrote:
Heaps will have lots of roll outs and sweet passes, Nelson will have lots of Steve Young breakdown run for lots of yards plays, Maybe the Crowton style isn't the worst thing this year (2 qbs per game)

I'm trying to remember the last successful passing team in which the QBs split their time relatively evenly. I can't really think of any recently. The last good example in BYU history is 1978, when Wilson was a junior and McMahon was a sophomore. It didn't work too well because redshirted McMahon the next year so they could get a full year out of him later.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">

2006 Florida Gators did a pretty good job winning the BCS title with Chris Leak starting and sharing time with freshman Tim Tebow.

Tim who???? Ha-ha-ha-ha!!!! LOL!!!!

:crazy:

Haha, I got first pick in the draft, Tim Brady mother effers!

Lawboy

2/22/2010, 6:32:14 PM

Timing is important, but let's not overstate it's importance. More than anything at QB, you need a gamer who can just make the throws. It is not as simple as saying if so-and-so runs this route, you hit him--HERE. The defense dictates much of what the BYU offense does. So more than anything, you just want a QB who can read the D, get his guys into the correct routes based upon that and take advantage of mismatches, then make the throws. And when the D takes things away, buy time with their feet to make a play. The best at this were Young and Detmer, and neither were huge timing guys at BYU, although Young became more of one with the Niners. But both knew how to exploit a weakness in a defense. For a great example, go back and wtch the BYU v. Miami game, where Detmer exposed the middle of the Hurricane D down the field. Was a clinic.

QuarterbackU

2/22/2010, 7:10:15 PM

I agree Law Boy.

Most often, the QB who makes the most turnovers in spring ball will find himself sitting the bench regardless of timing. Vince Young had horrible timing and won the rose bowl and a national title....

mcgregor

2/22/2010, 9:40:38 PM

Lawboy wrote:
Timing is important, but let's not overstate it's importance. More than anything at QB, you need a gamer who can just make the throws. It is not as simple as saying if so-and-so runs this route, you hit him--HERE. The defense dictates much of what the BYU offense does. So more than anything, you just want a QB who can read the D, get his guys into the correct routes based upon that and take advantage of mismatches, then make the throws. And when the D takes things away, buy time with their feet to make a play. The best at this were Young and Detmer, and neither were huge timing guys at BYU, although Young became more of one with the Niners. But both knew how to exploit a weakness in a defense. For a great example, go back and wtch the BYU v. Miami game, where Detmer exposed the middle of the Hurricane D down the field. Was a clinic.

Last post on the subject for me, then I am done.

What effectuates most of what you assign as attributes of a star QB is that QB's timing--that's how he's able to do all that you want him to do.

I mean, are we really arguing with each other? The initial point was that a QB that has more time to work with the receivers on staff will have more opportunity to find chemistry, lock in timing. Doing that will enable that QB to be more accurate.

Is anyone really debating that?

Mingjai

2/22/2010, 9:55:36 PM

Lawboy wrote:
Timing is important, but let's not overstate it's importance. More than anything at QB, you need a gamer who can just make the throws. It is not as simple as saying if so-and-so runs this route, you hit him--HERE. The defense dictates much of what the BYU offense does. So more than anything, you just want a QB who can read the D, get his guys into the correct routes based upon that and take advantage of mismatches, then make the throws. And when the D takes things away, buy time with their feet to make a play. The best at this were Young and Detmer, and neither were huge timing guys at BYU, although Young became more of one with the Niners. But both knew how to exploit a weakness in a defense. For a great example, go back and wtch the BYU v. Miami game, where Detmer exposed the middle of the Hurricane D down the field. Was a clinic.

I agree with your point but disagree with your example--Ty Detmer was the best timing QB in BYU history. He had a mediocre arm and lofted his throws, so he had to rely on his impeccable timing on his routes. While he was also good buying time with his feet, no one was better at throwing in rhythm than Detmer. If you want to look at a BYU QB that relied more on making plays than technique and timing, I think Brandon Doman is your best example.

snoscythe

2/22/2010, 10:53:07 PM

Robert Anae's Passing Spread is not the same as Chow and French's West-Coast Offense. I don't see how you can begin using the success of a quarterback in one offense to illustrate was is or is not required in another. You might as well throw in Doman under Crowton while you're at it.

jonnylingo

2/23/2010, 3:49:16 PM

mcgregor wrote:
this is just the herald trying to spin Ashworth's comments into a "compelling comparison of the QB's" to get more hits on their website. This article was a just a tease. Ashworth would not say anything meaningful about the QB race right now. It was 100% politically correct. Unfortunately we will have to wait till spring to see how things are really going unless one of you will go sit on the second floor of the student athlete building and try to get a glimpse of how these guys are throwing and interacting with the wide outs. Who would like to do that? Any takers? When it comes to timing, this is a bit over rated in my opinion, because each QB knows how to throw the ball and knows how to take his drops and understands how to progress from route to route. Timing will not be an issue with any of them, this isn't junior high and Ashworth knows that. It would have been just as valuable if Ashworth would have pointed out how critical it is to throw a spiral and have good footwork....means nothing. Go Heaps.

I humbly disagree.

Timing means EVERYTHING to this offense. The windows are small and passing lanes are narrow. Knowing exactly where each receiver will be at each point in your progression is exactly what makes this offense run, and why a senior BYU QB is nearly unstoppable. Timing is the reason coaches use stop watches at practice.

A QB in this system will learn how each receiver breaks, when he breaks, how fast is moves in and out of his breaks, how fast he can accelerate, etc.

I'm just not sure how you can say timing is over-rated.

What he said. BYU's offense is all about timing. Take that away and we will struggle to move the ball at all. I imagine our running game this year will be much better though and give our qb more time and opportunity to get in a groove with the receivers, if they can get open. They struggled to do this against the better teams we faced.

On the other note, I will be shocked if Bronco doesn't name a starter coming out of fall camp. I think he will make the decision then, even if its close and make sure that guy is getting the most reps. Spring ball will be really important for the qbs.

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