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A little bit of video

by BYULV · 8/9/2010

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nuk13
I haven't seen any of the qbs, but it seems to me that if Heaps is so far ahead of the others, why haven't the coaches seen it and declared him the starter? Maybe they are hiding their reasons or they see something we don't and are waiting for things to play out.



If Nelson doesn't become the starter I'd like to see some plays for him at rb. The defense wouldn't know if the qb was going to throw or pitch it to Nelson after which they wouldn't know if he would throw or run.
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redneckjedi
I have to disagree about Doman's arm. It was serviceable, but not fantastic. I was in the stadium for all the home games that year, and one of the things I remember is how often he would miss on deep balls. His short passing game was great, but the accuracy fell off when he went down field. And when he wasn't, you still had always had that fear that Wilkerson would drop it anyway...



I agree that we've never oriented an offense around QB's legs. That said, a guy like Steve Young puts a lot more pressure on the defense. For one, as a DB you know you have to cover for more than 4 seconds, because it's not a given that he'll either have thrown it or be sacked by then. Second, if it's been 4 seconds and the whistle hasn't blown, you have to start peeking into the backfield to see if he's not running for a first down again. He may very well be - then again, he may not, and you just lost your man in coverage and he's wide open.



Anyway, my point is that in the BYU offense, the deep ball generally doesn't fly 50 yards in the air. We rarely require that kind of throw out of the QB. I read a speech by Norm Chow once about how the offense is designed, and he says as much. You use your receivers and running backs to force the defense to cover all 55 yards of width on the football field. When you do go deep, it's usually because you see a coverage you like, and the pass is only 30 yards or so in the air - this is the lob I'm talking about, and it's available when you have a good matchup with your WR on the CB, and your reads tell you he's in man with no safety help. We do a good job of establishing the run now days, but even when we didn't we used passes to the flat to keep defenses honest, and the draw when they don't have enough beef in the middle. Does anyone else remember when the delay draw was pretty much our only real running game? We have much better balance now, as evidenced by the number of 1000-yard rushers we've had over the last decade.



No matter who the QB is, he will be able to make the deep throws the offense requires of him. With Heaps, the space our passing game has to operate will be because he can hit anyone anywhere and you have to respect that. You'll spread them vertically a little more than Nelson will. With Nelson, the space will come from the fact that safeties and linebackers will be looking in the backfield and playing their zone a little shallow to defend the run. Either way, I expect whoever starts to be fully capable of finding that space and exploiting it. And the stats right now don't give any indication that either of them has demonstrated a clear superiority at doing that yet.
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Brayden Green
redneckjedi wrote:
That said, a guy like Steve Young puts a lot more pressure on the defense.

Riley Nelson is no Steve Young. Steve could scramble, in large part because of exactly what you described, the CB's respected his deep throw ability and didn't dare leave their man.


redneckjedi wrote:
Anyway, my point is that in the BYU offense, the deep ball generally doesn't fly 50 yards in the air.

Right, but sometimes it does. And even when it doesn't BYU qb's are routinely asked to make 30 yard throws in the air. Think how many Max made the last 3 years to Pitta and George in the flat. The deep ball should be MORE prevalent this year with our receiving speed and height and all-around awesomeness.


redneckjedi wrote:
No matter who the QB is, he will be able to make the deep throws the offense requires of him. With Heaps, the space our passing game has to operate will be because he can hit anyone anywhere and you have to respect that. You'll spread them vertically a little more than Nelson will. With Nelson, the space will come from the fact that safeties and linebackers will be looking in the backfield and playing their zone a little shallow to defend the run.


Yes and no, I question Riley's ability to deliver a Max Hall-John Beck strike 30 yards over the middle. He needs to put air underneath it, and that lob closes the opportunity of that throw.


redneckjedi wrote:
And the stats right now don't give any indication that either of them has demonstrated a clear superiority at doing that yet.


Yes they do. Nelson dumps the ball off, and Jake isn't doing that. The only over the top throw I have heard from Riley, is that the CB covering fell down in man. The rest have been dump offs, screens, and broken tackles for gains. They clearly have two different styles and advantages. Riley is a bootleg qb, who gets out in space (which downplays our GREAT offensive line and the pocket they create). The offensive line is our clear strength advantage every single game, and we hardly play to that strength as it is. They are superb at picking up the blitz, and outweigh every line they go up against by about a hundred pounds. (One other thing that concerns me, is that JJ being the starter we are going to bounce the ball outside the tackles, and faster defenses will eat that up, when we need to be an up the middle, inside the tackles type offense, with the occasional bounce out to switch that up)
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Brayden Green
nuk13 wrote:
I haven't seen any of the qbs, but it seems to me that if Heaps is so far ahead of the others, why haven't the coaches seen it and declared him the starter? Maybe they are hiding their reasons or they see something we don't and are waiting for things to play out.



If Nelson doesn't become the starter I'd like to see some plays for him at rb. The defense wouldn't know if the qb was going to throw or pitch it to Nelson after which they wouldn't know if he would throw or run.


Because if they declare Heaps the starter now, you will have one, if not two fantastic qb's transfer. You have to also understand that while this is a hobby for us, this is the coaches j-o-b. And that means that if Bronco makes a decision to start a true freshman, he will have to answer for that. So it is more than okay to double check that, and make sure that is what you want to do. You definitely will see Nelson in the game, whether or not he starts. He will spearhead the wildcat portion of the offense.
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Sammich
redneckjedi wrote:
I have to disagree about Doman's arm. It was serviceable, but not fantastic. I was in the stadium for all the home games that year, and one of the things I remember is how often he would miss on deep balls. His short passing game was great, but the accuracy fell off when he went down field. And when he wasn't, you still had always had that fear that Wilkerson would drop it anyway...


I remember being frustrated about that too. How many times in 2001 was there a receiver who had beaten their defender downfield and Doman threw the ball 6-8 yards in front of their outstretched hands? If Doman was more accurate downfield (or if our defense any good at all), BYU would blown everyone out that year instead of having to scramble to win in most of the games.
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Brayden Green
agreed.
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Mars
redneckjedi wrote:
I have to disagree about Doman's arm. It was serviceable, but not fantastic. I was in the stadium for all the home games that year, and one of the things I remember is how often he would miss on deep balls.

So did Beck and Hall. The deep ball is never a "percentage" play.
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redneckjedi
Mars wrote:
I have to disagree about Doman's arm. It was serviceable, but not fantastic. I was in the stadium for all the home games that year, and one of the things I remember is how often he would miss on deep balls.

So did Beck and Hall. The deep ball is never a "percentage" play.


I totally agree. However, I think Beck could put it closer on average than Doman when throwing 30+ yards. I'm not so sure about Hall, but I'd probably give him the edge over Doman. I remember an awful lot of bad misses from him. Of course, part of that is the Crowton offense calling for more vertical plays, so that's not a totally fair comparison.
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Brayden Green
redneckjedi wrote:
redneckjedi wrote:
I have to disagree about Doman's arm. It was serviceable, but not fantastic. I was in the stadium for all the home games that year, and one of the things I remember is how often he would miss on deep balls.

So did Beck and Hall. The deep ball is never a "percentage" play.


I totally agree. However, I think Beck could put it closer on average than Doman when throwing 30+ yards. I'm not so sure about Hall, but I'd probably give him the edge over Doman. I remember an awful lot of bad misses from him. Of course, part of that is the Crowton offense calling for more vertical plays, so that's not a totally fair comparison.


Beck had a cannon for an arm, but jittery feet, his whole career at BYU. In longer throws, some times he wouldn't plant right and would rely on his arm. Beck's problem was unique to Max's and Doman's. The ball was hardly ever underthrown, and almost always 10 yards ahead of the receiver, no matter how far the throw was. But Mars is right, that is why they call it "taking a shot" downfield. It works whether or not the catch is made, if it is close enough. It scares the DC and makes him play a little more conservative. Esp, after seeing an overthrow instead uf an under throw.
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