Day 3 QB Battle

Hello everyone, I recently have found Cougar Corner and have enjoyed reading the comments here. I am one that is connected to what Kitic77 would call the Heaps camp and was surprised by a comment he made. I would like to respond and hope that I do not offend anyone but would like to humbly share some insight...



As far as I know, the "Heaps camp" as you called it isn't into politicking or beating a drum for their son. They are very much a family that has a "lunch pail" mentality. In other words they firmly believe the kids have to do their talking on the field. So if you meant that you expected the "Heaps camp" to run to the boards to defend their sons day you will be disappointed.



With that being said... I can tell you that the "Heaps Camp" was VERY pleased with Jake almost going perfect yesterday. For them its all about the evolution and continued growth. Jake is doing remarkably well for one so young and is learning a lot in each practice and is having a great time. Interestingly you might be surprised that they were pleased that Jake had a great "learning moment" in the red zone that will be invaluable to him later on. Not saying they wouldn't have been happy for Jake if he had he been able to convert the td. Of course who wouldn't but nows the time to learn and make adjustments.



Statics are great, but there are so many variables that have to be taken into account for both boys. Did the line block so Riley could make his hand off, did the receiver run the right route for Jake ect... these are things the coaches will know and then evaluate.



An interesting tidbit: Seattle radio is already talking about stacking the box against Riley if he is the starter. So I don't think there is any element of surprise with a wildcat formation. Just like they know Jake will wing it all over the field if he gets a chance to play in the game. UW also has miles and miles of footage of him in high school. The point is either way the UW is all over these two kids and has obviously already broken down strengths and weaknesses. They will come prepared to play either or both qb's. They have much riding on this opener... Lockers Heisman hopes, a win finally on the road, and much needed momentum and national respect.



While I'm adding my 2 cents here I think both boys will end up playing in that game if they stay close through this race.



Thank you for taking the time to read this post... and I look forward to being a part of Cougar Corner :)

airattack wrote:
Hello everyone, I recently have found Cougar Corner and have enjoyed reading the comments here. I am one that is connected to what Kitic77 would call the Heaps camp and was surprised by a comment he made. I would like to respond and hope that I do not offend anyone but would like to humbly share some insight...



As far as I know, the "Heaps camp" as you called it isn't into politicking or beating a drum for their son. They are very much a family that has a "lunch pail" mentality. In other words they firmly believe the kids have to do their talking on the field. So if you meant that you expected the "Heaps camp" to run to the boards to defend their sons day you will be disappointed.



With that being said... I can tell you that the "Heaps Camp" was VERY pleased with Jake almost going perfect yesterday. For them its all about the evolution and continued growth. He is doing remarkably well for one so young and is learning a lot in each practice. Interestingly you might be surprised that they were pleased that Jake had a great "learning moment" in the red zone that will be invaluable to him later on. Not saying they wouldn't have been happy for Jake if he had he been able to convert the td. Of course who wouldn't but nows the time to learn and make adjustments.



Statics are great, but there are so many variables that have to be taken into account for both boys. Did the line block so Riley could make his hand off, did the receiver run the right route for Jake ect... these are things the coaches will know and then evaluate.



An interesting tidbit: Seattle radio is already talking about stacking the box against Riley if he is the starter. So I don't think there is any element of surprise with a wildcat formation. Just like they know Jake will wing it all over the field if he gets a chance to play in the game. UW also has miles and miles of footage of him in high school. The point is either way the UW is all over these two kids and has obviously already broken down strengths and weaknesses. They will come prepared to play either or both qb's. They have much riding on this opener... Lockers Heisman hopes, a win finally on the road, and much needed momentum and national respect.



While I'm adding my 2 cents here I think both boys will end up playing in that game if they stay close through this race.



Thank you for taking the time to read this post... and I look forward to being a part of Cougar Corner :)

k, don't take this in a negative way because I look at it as a major positive. I think this is a member of Jake's Family, possibly his father. If so, it would be cool if we knew for sure (Linnette Chambers is one of my favorite posters because she brings that unique perspective of being O'neals mother). I have always thought that Jake was the kind of person that would let his talking be done on the field and if he wins the job will be one of the fans that will root for him during the good and (hopefully rarely) bad times. Anyway, I thought this was a good post.

AirAttack, welcome to the board, I hope you find it a great place to discuss Cougar Football. Your first post here is really insightful and well written. Let me help explain a little bit about what kitic was talking about. When he mentioned the Heaps Camp, he wasn't actually referring to people related to or part of the Heaps family inner circle; rather he was talking about a large group of fans on this board who are extremely excited to see Jake Heaps play and want him to start immediately. In many ways this is understandable as everyone, including Kitic, understands just how talented Heaps is. The place where the "Heaps Camp" people go a little too far is when they start insisting that Riley Nelson has no place at BYU, can't throw the ball, etc. Obviously we have two (actually 4) extremely talented QBs that can lead us to success.



I hope this helps clarify a few things, and I hope you continue to find this place a great place to discuss the Cougars.

Also, we tend to be a bit skeptical when a user's name has "Air" in it. I think yours is different enough from "Airwolf" but, still... A lot of bad memories.

byutx wrote:
Also, we tend to be a bit skeptical when a user's name has "Air" in it. I think yours is different enough from "Airwolf" but, still... A lot of bad memories.

No way this guy is airwolf, he actually sounds like a BYU fan. I still think this was heaps dad, if so I hope he keeps posting and will give us some perspective that only a family member can provide, similar to when Linnette posts. :)

Sorry my board name is so close to someone you had a bad experience with...



Thank you for the warm welcome, and the clarification as to what Kitic was referring to. I was a bit confused as to why he would expect the Heaps family to jump to Jakes defense on the boards especially considering he had a great day. One thing is for certain... Jake can handle his own battle on the field... and if he can't then he isn't ready yet.

airattack wrote:
Sorry my board name is so close to someone you had a bad experience with...



Thank you for the warm welcome, and the clarification as to what Kitic was referring to. I was a bit confused as to why he would expect the Heaps family to jump to Jakes defense on the boards especially considering he had a great day. One thing is for certain... Jake can handle his own battle on the field... and if he can't then he isn't ready yet.

A Freakin Men! That is the way I feel. If he wins the job, he deserves to play. If he doesn't then he will work hard and try to win the next QB battle when it happens. He is going to play at some point, he is too talented not to. The question is, whether he is ready for it right now. If he beats out the other 3 guys that BYU currently has (Nelson being his best current competition), then he is ready now. I have had and still have some reservations about starting a freshman because I have seen that go bad so many times in college football (ask Tom Holmoe about a guy named Kyle Boller) but if Bronco picks Jake, I will root for him every game.

frdbtr wrote:

Sorry my board name is so close to someone you had a bad experience with...



Thank you for the warm welcome, and the clarification as to what Kitic was referring to. I was a bit confused as to why he would expect the Heaps family to jump to Jakes defense on the boards especially considering he had a great day. One thing is for certain... Jake can handle his own battle on the field... and if he can't then he isn't ready yet.

A Freakin Men! That is the way I feel. If he wins the job, he deserves to play. If he doesn't then he will work hard and try to win the next QB battle when it happens. He is going to play at some point, he is too talented not to. The question is, whether he is ready for it right now. If he beats out the other 3 guys that BYU currently has (Nelson being his best current competition), then he is ready now. I have had and still have some reservations about starting a freshman because I have seen that go bad so many times in college football (ask Tom Holmoe about a guy named Kyle Boller) but if Bronco picks Jake, I will root for him every game.

This is how I feel as well.

frdbtr wrote:

Also, we tend to be a bit skeptical when a user's name has "Air" in it. I think yours is different enough from "Airwolf" but, still... A lot of bad memories.

No way this guy is airwolf, he actually sounds like a BYU fan. I still think this was heaps dad, if so I hope he keeps posting and will give us some perspective that only a family member can provide, similar to when Linnette posts. :)

Oh, I know. But I did cringe a little before I began to read his post.



While on the subject of names, I'm curious as to the story behind yours. In my head I think of you as "Fried Butter" but I'm sure that's not accurate, or possible. Then again, they fry everything here in Texas. If they can "fry" coke, then why not butter?!?

byutx wrote:

byutx wrote:
Also, we tend to be a bit skeptical when a user's name has "Air" in it. I think yours is different enough from "Airwolf" but, still... A lot of bad memories.

No way this guy is airwolf, he actually sounds like a BYU fan. I still think this was heaps dad, if so I hope he keeps posting and will give us some perspective that only a family member can provide, similar to when Linnette posts. :)

Oh, I know. But I did cringe a little before I began to read his post.



While on the subject of names, I'm curious as to the story behind yours. In my head I think of you as "Fried Butter" but I'm sure that's not accurate, or possible. Then again, they fry everything here in Texas. If they can "fry" coke, then why not butter?!?

LOL! that is funny. No, nothing to do with food. It has to do with my dislike for a certain car manufacturer. Just add the vowells and you will get it. I had intentions of putting it on a license plate but my wife won't let me. Plus I have never had it rejected as a login name on any website. So far, I am the only one who has ever thought of it. :)

byutx wrote:

byutx wrote:
Also, we tend to be a bit skeptical when a user's name has "Air" in it. I think yours is different enough from "Airwolf" but, still... A lot of bad memories.

No way this guy is airwolf, he actually sounds like a BYU fan. I still think this was heaps dad, if so I hope he keeps posting and will give us some perspective that only a family member can provide, similar to when Linnette posts. :)

Oh, I know. But I did cringe a little before I began to read his post.



While on the subject of names, I'm curious as to the story behind yours. In my head I think of you as "Fried Butter" but I'm sure that's not accurate, or possible. Then again, they fry everything here in Texas. If they can "fry" coke, then why not butter?!?

Fried Coke? I'm freakin moving to Texas!!!



Ford Better.... got it.

BlueIsBetter wrote:

frdbtr wrote:

Also, we tend to be a bit skeptical when a user's name has "Air" in it. I think yours is different enough from "Airwolf" but, still... A lot of bad memories.

No way this guy is airwolf, he actually sounds like a BYU fan. I still think this was heaps dad, if so I hope he keeps posting and will give us some perspective that only a family member can provide, similar to when Linnette posts. :)

Oh, I know. But I did cringe a little before I began to read his post.



While on the subject of names, I'm curious as to the story behind yours. In my head I think of you as "Fried Butter" but I'm sure that's not accurate, or possible. Then again, they fry everything here in Texas. If they can "fry" coke, then why not butter?!?

Fried Coke? I'm freakin moving to Texas!!!



Ford Better.... got it.

close.. Ford Beater I don't like fords.

I always thought Fred Beater...wondering why the dislike so much for some guy named fred...I do remember a long time ago you telling us Ford Beater.



As to the topic. 4 talented QB's...two possible starters. Neither of which will be prideful if and when the job is won.

kitic77 wrote:

kitic77 wrote:
I did find the silence by the Heaps camp a little interesting yesterday though.

I'm curious who you were expecting to comment that didn't. Or is it all in your head?

No one poster in particular. Just that the Day 1 stats which were clearly in Jake's favor created multiple pages of discussion. And yesterday's stats which weren't in his favor nearly as much created next to nothing.



And yes, it probably is in my head.

I am breaking my avowed silence on the debate (I made it one day, really? - for good reason though I want to take this "emotional downtime" to clarify some things) to once again state that I don't care about the numbers, as much as I do what is actually happening. There is so much that the numbers aren't showing, that you can twist them any way that you want them to. And "Poker Face" Mendenhall is keeping things so close to his chest that it is hard to tell when you are getting your information second hand. I do not think that all is lost if we start Nelson, or if he gets a majority of the snaps. I do want a redshirt for Heaps, and wish we were in a position to deliver it, I'm just not sure that is the best for BYU. If Riley can get the job done, I am 100% behind him being the guy, and even to the point of RS Jake, if we think that Riley will make the whole season as the starter (and if one of the other guys really picks it up). All that said, I am very skeptical about Riley being the guy, because I have seen him throw, and we are taking a major downgrade in arm strength over the last two quarterbacks. The thing that gets me more than arm strength, is happy feet which I have mentioned before. The offensive line is one of the best lines in the country, and the BYU pocket is one of the best pockets in the entire nation. We need a qb that can step up and knock throws down. Everything I have ever seen from Riley, is that he is not comfortable in the pocket, and would rather get out in space. We as a team need to gameplan MORE around the O-line, not less. So it is not a matter of liking one over the other for me. You take away the names Heaps and Nelson, or even switch the names, and I would still go for the guy that steps UP in the pocket, checks down his receivers, allows routes to develop, has great accuracy and a good enough arm to get it there. No matter what his name is, if he is a frosh, if he was the last picked guy in the country. Good fundamentals are good fundamentals. I LOVE BYU FOOTBALL, and am moderately obsessed with it. Okay, not moderately. I am completely passionate about it, and I can't help but be passionate about the qb of the offense. If I could ever move past this, you would find out that I am equally excited and concerned about JJ for the same reasons. I am afraid that we don't go straight up the middle anymore, but swing everything to the outside. Willing on a pull block, is a scary thing for a defense, and our O-line can move better than most, but that is not our strength. i just want to see us playing to our strengths, of which we have many. It is an exciting time to be a BYU fan!

BlueIsBetter, how much have you really seen him throw? Not trying to be a jerk, but since there haven't been any open practices yet, I'm curious. Especially since I read an article where Doman talks about how much Riley has worked at improving his release position and velocity over the summer, I'm curious about how many throws you've seen and when you saw them so that I know how to evaluate your statements about his arm - and his feet, for that matter.



Also, from what I remember, BYU has always done a fair amount of pulling one (or both) guards in the running game. There was nothing like watching Evan Pilgrim steamroll a safety or OLB on a toss. :) Running outside will not ruin our offense - if anything, having a guy like JJ that is a threat to the outside opens up the middle for dives and counters. We'll still go up the middle, even with JJ. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see some shotgun draws with him, right up the middle.

Mars wrote:


I'm feeling better about Nelson today. His second practice was better than his first, and his third practice was better than his second.



Nelson had 3 series today and went against the Ones at least twice.

Heaps had 3 series today and went against the Onces, Twos, and Threes once each.



More importantly, Riley had no fumbles, no INTs, no sacks, no bat-downs in practice #3, and 3 passing TDs to boot. Very good day for him. Heaps going 10/11 with 2 TDs (and a pick on the 1 yard line) ain't too bad either.











If I had to guess as of today, Nelson will start against Washington, and Heaps will come in after the first punt or QB turnover.

Props to you Mars for giving Nelson some respect.

Mars wrote:
Munns has a 100% completion rate so far, and is throwing for more than 10 yards per... He also gets sacked every other play.

This might have to do with Munns officially being listed as 6'5" 255, that is a few more pounds he has put on and is hampering his mobility.

frdbtr wrote:

Also, we tend to be a bit skeptical when a user's name has "Air" in it. I think yours is different enough from "Airwolf" but, still... A lot of bad memories.

No way this guy is airwolf, he actually sounds like a BYU fan. I still think this was heaps dad, if so I hope he keeps posting and will give us some perspective that only a family member can provide, similar to when Linnette posts. :)

The biggest clue it isn't Wolfie is it actually made sense.

I've seen Nelson plenty of times, in high school, and in college, and as a backup for the cougs. I have probably seen him throw 150 or more times. I watched him in Spring Drills and it didn't look any different. As for the happy feet, you can go back as early as 5 or 6 years ago, or the last actual game that I saw him play. He did it bad last year. That is something that is fixable, with grit and determination. Which apparently he has...



As far as pulling the guards, yeah we have done it, but not with a sub 4.4 running back who is going to outrun the people they are blocking anyways. We did it all the time last year with Tonga out "in front". Except that he wasn't ever out "in front" on the sweep. So you have to slow down, so that someone can clear a block for you? It defeats the purpose of bouncing it to the outside in the first place. The guy blocking is hitting a guy that you should be past at top speed anyway. JJ is the opposite of Harvey, and I hope we bounce it outside often, so he can get out in space. I hope that we don't completely forget about up the middle though, because that is an easy 5 yards. If you forget about it with Harvey, I am worried about it with someone as skilled as DiLuigi. And IIRC, we didn't go up the middle with JJ all last year.

An interesting note... one of the biggest criticisms leveled against Max Hall was that he would never get out in space, and always stayed in the pocket.