My own opinion

jonnylingo wrote:
I think saying oneill hasn't done anything makes you look stupid. He consistently gets us in good field position on kick and punt returns. He has also been a valauable wide receiver. Have you seen him block? He is very physical and generall has good hands.



Has he made mistakes? Yes, but everybody has. Who is going to replace him, hoffman? Hoffman will be good in another year but he usually looks pretty lost out there. chambers is further along with his routes. I think he should stay where he is and we should get a quarterback out there who can actually take advantage of his talents as well as jacobsens and all the other great receivers we have.



jacobsen had zero catches this weekend. Something is wrong when that happens.



Oh and by the way, your are a pri*$k. Sorry mods, he deserved it after Linnette's plea for civility. Yes, you can have your opinion but you don't have to be a moron and a jerk about it.

Amen.

Definition of a "Forum" - "An assembly for open discussion" Just so you know.

I admit they are not facts per say, but they have yet to be disproved by anyone.

Here is my real problem with Chambers, the root of my annoyance. His constant crap talking, and immaturity.

Dropped pass in the endzone - Stands up talking to the cornerback

Dropped fumble - gets up talking to any defensive player near him

2 yard catch - talking to the corner the whole way back to the huddle

How many personal fouls does he have? I don't know, but it's way to many for a wide freaking receiver.



I will say this though ... he is definitely our best downfield blocker, and for the I commend him.

Sorry I am a PRICK, censor my opinion in this open forum. God Bless.

The reason no one has "disputed" your facts is the same reason they're not facts. Because you haven't offered any facts, you've simply postulated your opinion. Here's what you said.

kfilly20 wrote:
Chambers has terrible hands,

Terrible hand compared to whom? How have you quantified "terrible"? Did Collie have terrible hands? He dropped four passes against UW in 2008.

kfilly20 wrote:
is really slow,

Slow compared to whom? Is he slower than Usain Bolt? Has gotten behind the defense this year? (I don't know the answer to that one as I haven't had a chance to watch either game.) If he has that would not seem to imply being slow. Can you tell me how much "really" is?

kfilly20 wrote:
makes terrible decisions,

Terrible decisions? What does that even mean? In what part of his game is he making terrible decisions. He averaged 15 yards a kickoff return against AF. Not great, but not "terrible" either.

kfilly20 wrote:
cannot stop talking $H!# even when he does absolutely nothing.

So if he's doing "absolutely nothing" how is he accumulating any stats at all? I wish I could be as productive while doing "absolutely nothing." Imagine how good could he be if actually started doing something?! And are you sure he's talking "$H!#"? Maybe he was getting directions to TGI Fridays in Colorado Springs?

kfilly20 wrote:
I have been saying for two years that he is the most overrated player BYU has ever had.

To quote Kyp Dynamite: "Napoleon, like anyone could even know that." More overrated than Ben Olson who was the #1 recruit (higher than even Heaps, who was just the #1 QB by most services) and who never played a single down for BYU? And for two years? Wow! You rock. Glad to see you like to rip BYU players from the beginning.

kfilly20 wrote:
Seriously if he would quit talking to the DB's and maybe catch the ball for once he might be ok.

So it's his talking to the DB's that is the reason for his drops? It's not a lack of focus or lack of timing/continuity with his QBs. So maybe if we just duct tape his mouth shut, he'd have 3 TDs so far?

kfilly20 wrote:
In three years he has yet to get behind a DB despite his supposed amazing speed.

I didn't realize the second game of the third season constituted an entire year. Can you point to evidence of his "supposed amazing speed"? Or are you just projecting your biases that 1) you don't like him and 2) think he should be faster than he's shown you to be. Maybe you should reevaluate what kind of player you think he is. He's not a burner, he's a possession receiver. I'm not sure I've read on Cougar Corner where's he's been purported to have world-class speed.

kfilly20 wrote:
I'm venting but I would love someone to disprove any of these facts. Please please do ....

Finally a fact! I agree, you are venting. Here's a "fact" for you: try looking for the silver lining. Try supporting your team and your players. Try being positive.



I bet you can't list 10 positive things that OC has done for the program.

I would love for YOU to name those 10 positive things. After all you are the one defending him.

Slow=Not getting past cornerbacks at all. Find me a few instances to change my mind.

Terrible hands= Drops 2 balls in the end zone, multiple multiple fumbles ( Collie had 4 drops while getting 130 balls thrown to him, come on man)

Bad decisions = Flipping off player, at least 3 late hits out of bounds, catching punts inside the 10 yard line, stealing a kick off out of Di Luigis hands almost causing another fumble, .... goes on and on ...

Talking (swear word) = Watch any 3 random plays that he is involved in and see him getting pulled away from a defender by his own teammates probably 2 of those 3 plays



This is not really O'neills fault I guess, I blame the coaches for letting it continue.

Thank you kitic, again for using a calm and collected manner to discuss these points with kfilly. To kfilly, as you admit that these aren't in fact FACTS, maybe you'd be willing to change the name of the thread to OPINIONS?

It was a knee jerk reaction naming it "facts" and for that I apologize ...

I'll start- 1. OC could have been the largest single factor in our win vs. Utah last year.

2. Didn't OC lead the MWC in kick returns as a freshman? or close to it?

3. Had a great one handed catch out of bounds last week

4. Ran back a kick to the UNLV 2 or 3 yard line in Vegas (of course everyone was so mad that he didn't get in that time)

5. Great with fans, even those that talk (swear word) about him.

6. Had some awesome catches last year where he knew he was going to get nailed and still caught the ball.

7. Is the ultimate competitor (gets him in trouble sometimes)

8. Plays every down till the whistle blows (and then some)

9. Blocks like a fullback

10. Has never mentioned leaving BYU on facebook (TIC)

11. is a BYU player!!!!!

That's just off the top of my head

declocoug wrote:
I'll start- 1. OC could have been the largest single factor in our win vs. Utah last year.

2. Didn't OC lead the MWC in kick returns as a freshman? or close to it?

3. Had a great one handed catch out of bounds last week

4. Ran back a kick to the UNLV 2 or 3 yard line in Vegas (of course everyone was so mad that he didn't get in that time)

5. Great with fans, even those that talk (swear word) about him.

6. Had some awesome catches last year where he knew he was going to get nailed and still caught the ball.

7. Is the ultimate competitor (gets him in trouble sometimes)

8. Plays every down till the whistle blows (and then some)

9. Blocks like a fullback

10. Is a BYU player who has never mentioned leaving BYU on facebook (TIC)

That's just off the top of my head

11. His mother, who frequents the forum, takes all the criticism in stride and deals with it maturely, unlike a lot of the posters who do the criticizing.



Here's the thing: CHAMBERS DIDN'T HYPE HIMSELF, THE FANS DID, AND NOW THAT HE DOESN'T LIVE UP TO THE INCREDIBLY HIGH STANDARD THEY SET FOR HIM BEFORE EVER SEEING HIM PLAY A COLLEGE DOWN, THEY GIVE HIM CRAP.



The truth is that Chambers is a very good receiver who has some things to work on (like pretty much every other college athlete). He plays hard, I assume he practices hard (or he wouldn't be starting for a Bronco Mendenhall team), and he doesn't take $#!% from players on other teams (which shows he's got at least some fire and some heart).



THE UNFAIR CRITICISM OF A COUPLE SELECT PLAYERS NEEDS TO STOP, THE WHOLE TEAM LOST THAT GAME YESTERDAY AND THERE NEEDS TO BE A FOCUS ON PLAYING AS A TEAM AND WINNING AS A TEAM INSTEAD OF DIVISION AND FINGER POINTING.

Iirc, the reason incoming Freshmen are not allowed to talk to the media early on was OC. OC, iirc, was the one insinuating that others, like AC, were getting favoritism over him leaving the impression that he thought he was better than those getting PT when he was a freshman.



That, and fan hype when he was recruited, led to the ultra high expectations. It is hyperbole to state that he has done nothing or is useless. He just is not meeting the super star expectations he and others created for himself.



I do wish he would talk less and focus on ball control and havexa great junior season.



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Cougarbib2 wrote:
Iirc, the reason incoming Freshmen are not allowed to talk to the media early on was OC. OC, iirc, was the one insinuating that others, like AC, were getting favoritism over him leaving the impression that he thought he was better than those getting PT when he was a freshman.



That, and fan hype when he was recruited, led to the ultra high expectations. It is hyperbole to state that he has done nothing or is useless. He just is not meeting the super star expectations he and others created for himself.



I do wish he would talk less and focus on ball control and havexa great junior season.



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Source? Quotes? Anything?

Cougarbib2 wrote:
Iirc, the reason incoming Freshmen are not allowed to talk to the media early on was OC. OC, iirc, was the one insinuating that others, like AC, were getting favoritism over him leaving the impression that he thought he was better than those getting PT when he was a freshman.



That, and fan hype when he was recruited, led to the ultra high expectations. It is hyperbole to state that he has done nothing or is useless. He just is not meeting the super star expectations he and others created for himself.



I do wish he would talk less and focus on ball control and havexa great junior season.



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I thought the player to whom OC may have been referring was Bryce Mahuika. Who ironically enough, OC did beat out for considerably playing time.

Schmoe wrote:

Iirc, the reason incoming Freshmen are not allowed to talk to the media early on was OC. OC, iirc, was the one insinuating that others, like AC, were getting favoritism over him leaving the impression that he thought he was better than those getting PT when he was a freshman.



That, and fan hype when he was recruited, led to the ultra high expectations. It is hyperbole to state that he has done nothing or is useless. He just is not meeting the super star expectations he and others created for himself.



I do wish he would talk less and focus on ball control and havexa great junior season.



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Source? Quotes? Anything?

This is truth. It should be call the OC Freshmen rule.

I don't remember this, but apparently it happened. Sounds like he said he was better than Mahuika, which apparently he was, therefore he has met or exceeded the expectations that he set for himself. It still comes down to the expectations that fans have placed upon him.

I am pretty sure he guarantees he will take a return to the house every year as well. I hope does and that when he gets close je hangs on to the ball until he is well into the house.



I would give sources, but I traveling on a 3-week trip using an iPhone which u can probably tell because the system won't let me edit most of my posts.



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He's still got 25 more games to take one to the house ;)

Cougarbib2 wrote:
I am pretty sure he guarantees he will take a return to the house every year as well. I hope does and that when he gets close je hangs on to the ball until he is well into the house.



I would give sources, but I traveling on a 3-week trip using an iPhone which u can probably tell because the system won't let me edit most of my posts.



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FYI~ I believe it is that he said he will take at least one back while at BYU. I do think he was as bold to say one a year.