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Let the Heaps era begin!!

by Cougarpoke · 9/13/2010

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I
imuakahuku
kitic77 wrote:
Tucking and running too early is just a bad as hanging in the pocket and taking too long to go through all your progressions. Waiting and waiting for routes to develop is a good way to move backwards due to the pressure getting to the QB and being sacked.



One thing Riley is is decisive. It's a good trait in a QB. The problem is that he didn't throw the ball well against AF in the 2nd half. So his decisions to run weren't leading to points. Any QB must be effective in throwing the ball.



So far, we've had one game where Riley was effective throwing the ball. One game where he wasn't. We've yet to have a game where Jake has been effective throwing the ball. Riley can run all he wants, but he must use it as a compliment to his passing game. If not, then he comes ineffective and predictable.


My point is he should not be tucking he should be rolling out which is what we saw Heaps doing on several plays. He should be buying time for the WR's instead of just giving up on the play two to three seconds in. But he has shown this tendency in two games now and teams have caught on. Hence his near zero production in the second half. It almost like a QB only throwing to one person and never looking at his other WR's. I see this as a glaring problem and will lead to his demise if he cannot suddenly become a passing QB. Our O is not truly designed for what he is doing and especially since our opponent's D is now designed to stop what he is doing.



Being decisive is a virtue unless those decisions are not good ones. I have to look at the results of those decisions before I can accept it as a positive trait.



His problem wasnt that he didn't throw well in the 2nd half, it was that he hasn't thown well yet. His throws have been of the short variety and if the WR isn't close by it almost always results in an incompletion.



After all is said in done I would be fine with him if he would just not tuck it and run so much. He would be very successful if he would roll out and look for an open receiver instead of tucking it and doing it himself. The quote of him being the most productive part of the offense is because he is not giving others the opportunity. Just stop running so much, buy some time for the WR's, and at least try to find an open guy before you tuck it and take off. Believe me, he would be much more productive even if he ran as much or more, if he at least had the ball out and ready to throw let alone actually threw it once in a while scrambling. Right now defenses know that if he scrambles he isn't going to throwit.
V
vancouvercougar
IN 2007 Hall had the whole summer plus Fall camp to get the timing with receivers. He also established himself as the leader, the go to guy. It seems leadership was lacking vs AFA.



I think 2011 will be a great year if Jake--and the team--knows who leads the team. (I agree, "let the Heaps era begin")



I also think there will be NO more 2 QB teams in Bronco's coaching future.
S
SpiffCoug
imuakahuku wrote:
His problem wasnt that he didn't throw well in the 2nd half, it was that he hasn't thown well yet. His throws have been of the short variety and if the WR isn't close by it almost always results in an incompletion.

I'm sorry, but this is utter and complete bull spit. I'm now starting to get mad about this. It is simply not true that Nelson "hasn't thrown well yet." His passer rating was 168.26 against Washington. That is throwing the ball extremely well. BYU's record since 2000 when the QB has thrown for 168 or better is 32-3. That's a .914 winning percentage. The point of throwing the ball well is to complete passes, move the ball down field and score points. Riley did ALL of that against Washington and did that against AF in the first half.



I'm tired of trying to defend a BYU player when he plays well. Too many people are willing to bow down before the immense talent that Jake Heaps brings to the table that they are simply refusing to acknowledge the fact that Riley is much better than they want him to be. They are purposefully blinding themselves to anything non-Jake that anything short of Jake playing yesterday is more than unacceptable but rather an affront to their BYU fanhood. And I'm tired of it.



BOTH QBs can get the job done. End of discussion. Neither QB right now is playing well. Jake is NOT a better QB today than Riley. He might be in a month or two or with more reps, but right now he is not.
I
Italics
kitic77 wrote:
And Heaps hasn't been leading the team to points either. Neither QB was good in any way shape or form against AF.



BOTH quarterbacks must become more efficient throwers. Riley was very efficient throwing against UW. Jake wasn't. Both were awful against the Falcons.



Passing efficiency is the single most important factor in winning games. ANY team that wants to win - even "rushing" teams - must throw the ball efficiently to win.


I'm not sure why so many keep pointing out that Heaps' numbers haven't been too great so far. The point being made time and time again is that he obviously has a strong, accurate arm, and that he - as a quarterback - has great potential at a school like BYU. Any one who watched the game knows that Heaps didn't lead the team to any scores, we don't need it to be pointed out. The debate is not about how many points Heaps has lead the team to in his FIRST TWO GAMES of his college career (of which he's taken a combined total less than 50% of the snaps).



Jake already is an efficient passer, he just hasn't been able to completely adjust to the college game yet - very few QB's do at the state he's at - especially when they're not getting much playing time. Nelson is not a good throwing QB, and toward the end of his college career and in the middle of the football season is NOT the time to work on it - at this point, it's too late. Time to allow the QB that has potential to work on their passing efficiency.
J
jonnylingo
Italics wrote:
And Heaps hasn't been leading the team to points either. Neither QB was good in any way shape or form against AF.



BOTH quarterbacks must become more efficient throwers. Riley was very efficient throwing against UW. Jake wasn't. Both were awful against the Falcons.



Passing efficiency is the single most important factor in winning games. ANY team that wants to win - even "rushing" teams - must throw the ball efficiently to win.


I'm not sure why so many keep pointing out that Heaps' numbers haven't been too great so far. The point being made time and time again is that he obviously has a strong, accurate arm, and that he - as a quarterback - has great potential at a school like BYU. Any one who watched the game knows that Heaps didn't lead the team to any scores, we don't need it to be pointed out. The debate is not about how many points Heaps has lead the team to in his FIRST TWO GAMES of his college career (of which he's taken a combined total less than 50% of the snaps).



Jake already is an efficient passer, he just hasn't been able to completely adjust to the college game yet - very few QB's do at the state he's at - especially when they're not getting much playing time. Nelson is not a good throwing QB, and toward the end of his college career and in the middle of the football season is NOT the time to work on it - at this point, it's too late. Time to allow the QB that has potential to work on their passing efficiency.


Jake drove the length of the field in the uw game like he was a junior. It was very impressive and total byu football. he can't be blamed for not getting the touchdowns. that was anae's fault with the ridiculous play calls.



riley is fine but he is very limited. he has a lot to improve upon in terms of waiting to let receivers make plays. I don't think he is as good as many think or want him to be. he is definitely not starting at usu or utah this year. not sure why he should start at byu other than the fact that his main competition is a freshman which rubs byu coaches the wrong way.
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B
Brayden Green
I'm pretty tired of people talking about how Jake hasn't thrown well, blah blah, blah...



Riley has the advantage of throwing well, because he has the most balanced offense. He is running a ton, so any time he gets a throw call the defender could be caught off balance.



Jake gets in there, and it is pass, pass, pass, punt. Not only do you have no timing between he and any of the receivers because of things already mentioned, but you have no balance. It is like Anae is playing a video game or something. You simply cannot bring your throwing qb in, and throw 3 times. There is a reason if/when they actually run JJ he gets a better yard per carry. The defense is already playing pass. So make it easier on your rookie qb, and call a few runs when he is in for craps sake!
K
kiwibacon
The discussion of Nelson vs. Heaps, which quarterback should start, why or if a quarterback failed thus far in the season has been discussed ad nauseum. Some say that it is a division of the "Nelson camp" and the "heaps camp". It appears that many are even being placed into a camp based off of "perceived" negative things being said of one QB over another. There is no need to align ourselves or others that way. It appears most everyone has decided how they see the situation is the best way and only way. There is also almost no more exchanges within the discussion where one side can or will convince the other person that how they see the world/football/quarterbacks is the only way it should be seen. Because of that I hope that maybe we can find different discussion that does not become so divisive.

If there is one thing I am upset about right now with the coaching staff it is that a QB has not been chosen as 1st string and the other qb's lined up in depth chart order...and please don't turn this into a discussion of "well, the coach can do what you suggest if he will see what I see" discussion either. Man, am I ready for a new discussion. I feel like I am walking in a field with nothing but horse carcasses all around and people walking in the mist of that field with big sticks swinging away at bloated, maggot infested carcasses.

/rant...nothing to see here people. move along.
M
Mars
Schmoe wrote:
Even so, Mars, he's still been more effective in actual games. I believe that Heaps is the future as much as the next blue-goggled homer, and he does need to get his reps, but all the Riley criticism is uncalled for. I was pretty sure that this would happen as soon as we had a loss, I just didn't realize that it would be so soon: people love to blame the qb, especially when the next guy in line is the golden child, even when the receivers were dropping balls, the D was lying down; taking plays off; and missing option assignments, and the coaches admittedly did a very poor job.

I will say this about Nelson- I like him when he is sharing snaps. I especially like him early on in games. In both situations, the defense either has not yet adjusted or is having a hard time making multiple adjustments back and forth.



But Riley is the only QB who has played more than one series in a row, and he has scored 0 touchdowns during that period, and been much less effective than Heaps. And that is what I don't like to imagine happening ever again.



Riley could start every game this year for all I care. Riley could get another series every time he leads the team to a touchdown. Riley could play every quarter of our remaining 11 games. I'm completely fine with that. But the idea of a Riley 3-and-out against a stacked box, followed by another Riley 3-and-out against a stacked box, followed by another Riley 3-and-out against a stacked box, all with him attempting short runs on 3rd and long, all late in the game when we're down multiple TDs and Jacobsen, Chambers, and Hafoka are all yet to receive a single pass... that makes me so angry I want to tear Anae's hair out. Not good.



Adding Heaps in helps bring back the passing respect from the opposing D, which helps JJ DiLuigi lead the offense and helps confuse the defense, which helps Riley. We haven't seen Jake play an entire half at QB yet all by himself. It could be ugly. Even if it is, it's still better than 0 points from Riley, because Jake will still be here 2 years from now and Riley won't. Does my train-of-thought make sense here?
I
imuakahuku
kitic77 wrote:
His problem wasnt that he didn't throw well in the 2nd half, it was that he hasn't thown well yet. His throws have been of the short variety and if the WR isn't close by it almost always results in an incompletion.

I'm sorry, but this is utter and complete bull spit. I'm now starting to get mad about this. It is simply not true that Nelson "hasn't thrown well yet." His passer rating was 168.26 against Washington. That is throwing the ball extremely well. BYU's record since 2000 when the QB has thrown for 168 or better is 32-3. That's a .914 winning percentage. The point of throwing the ball well is to complete passes, move the ball down field and score points. Riley did ALL of that against Washington and did that against AF in the first half.



I'm tired of trying to defend a BYU player when he plays well. Too many people are willing to bow down before the immense talent that Jake Heaps brings to the table that they are simply refusing to acknowledge the fact that Riley is much better than they want him to be. They are purposefully blinding themselves to anything non-Jake that anything short of Jake playing yesterday is more than unacceptable but rather an affront to their BYU fanhood. And I'm tired of it.



BOTH QBs can get the job done. End of discussion. Neither QB right now is playing well. Jake is NOT a better QB today than Riley. He might be in a month or two or with more reps, but right now he is not.


The point is neither QB has been very effective. If they have why do we have just two TD's in each of the first two games? If he was throwing so well why doesn't he have two TD's in every quarter? Both have not had much success but I have not said that Heaps has been brilliant either. The reason I advocate now for Heaps is that Nelson has shown a tendency toward a poor pocket presence, less than average throws, and suspect skills in going through his progressions. And now AF has shown the world that if you can put just a little pressure on him and then guard against his running he basically becomes ineffective. FSU will tell the tale. When he gets his chance, lets see what he does in the pocket. Will he learn to stand in their longer, roll out with the ball ready to throw, or will he tuck and run again because he didn't see an open WR in the first couple of seconds?

I personally had wanted Heaps redshirted this year to give him more time in the system but thats over now. I had thought maybe Riley would be close to what Doman was but he has been far from it. And as his passing has gotten worse his running has suffered because now the D demands he make any yards through the air, which also hurts the running game for the RB's. FSU will be the measure of how effective Riley can be. I have liked the throws of Heaps much better than Riley and would like to see him get a lot more reps with the WR's to allow him to get comfortable with them and for them to get used his throw. And personally I just can't forgive him for tucking the ball while in the pocket. That is just pure bad form. He didn't try to buy time, he didn't look downfiled anymore, he didn't try to get it to other players, it just became the Riley show. Kind of reminded me of thow HS QB's that just run every other play because they said nobody was open when in reality they think only they can make the play. Again, lets see what happens at FSU. I am curious if they will stack the box right from the outset or will they be a little tentative to start.
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