THIS is what Heaps has done...

BlueIsBetter wrote:
Sure, others are buying into hype that Heaps is better than he is right now. But is that really a bad thing for people who normally wouldn't be, to be excited about BYU?

If it comes with the price of tearing down previous recruits, then yes, it is a bad thing. This isn't limited to Heaps/Nelson--that's just the most vigorous debate. It happened with Juice when everyone was naming him the starter before camp began and began dismissing DiLuigi and Drew Philips as nobodies who weren't good fits. It is happening now with Chambers being ripped on and people clamoring for Hoffman and Apo. I have no problem with starting better players--I just want them to win their spots/snaps with their performance in practice and in games instead of being handed them by fans on the basis of youtube highlights and star-rankings.

BlueIsBetter wrote:

airattack wrote:
Sno you really should try and keep it classy. I have a suggestion for you... why don't you stick to the Nelson threads and refrain from tearing Jake down? You seem close to the QB situation from what I can gather and seem to be taking things personally... If I am mistaken, I apologize in advance.

I fail to see anything I have said that has been less classy than what has been said ad nauseum about Riley Nelson, O'Neill Chambers, or Steven Thomas this past week. Yet you haven't come on to ask posters to keep it classy there. Yet you imply that I am taking things personally. Hopefully you can see the irony in that position. I am sorry if you think I am tearing Jake down. In their eagerness to see him succeed, many on here seem to forget that Jake has not exactly been a world-beater himself these past two weeks. My aim is not to tear him down, but rather to bring some semblance of objectivity to the forum as people clamor for him to start and tell us how badly Riley Nelson has sucked.



I have no dog in the QB fight. I have never met the Nelsons, nor the Heaps.

You can point out several ironic staments in there. Your aim isn't to tear Jake down, just anyone that says anything nice about him. You can't make all the statements you have, and say you have no dog in the qb fight. You do, it's Nelson. I do, it's Heaps (because - I think - he is the better quarterback, now and in the future. And makes the best sense for what used to be our offensive scheme.) But you, anytime someone has anything nice to say about Heaps, it's "well Nelson this or that..." and something negative about Nelson you adversely attack Jake or the poster. It's waring very thin, Sno and more than one person is seeing it.

snocythe wrote:
Since March I have been disgusted with how quickly the fans turn on our older players when some new recruit comes into camp with some hype--they forget about the hype the other guys came with and begin to hope that they fail so they can see the new guys come in. I am not anti-Heaps, I am anti-hype. I want every position to be earned, and every player to be respected for their commitment to the program.

If this is true, and I have every reason to believe it is how you feel, then I suggest you stop watching BYU football, and maybe move over to the USU Aggies (if you are in Utah), or something like that. Because BYU has had our best recruiting years in the program the last 3 years consecutively, and that trend isn't going to stop anytime soon. How do you think that fans in Texas do it when the freshman CB starts over the senior because of talent? You can't ask a program to suffer because the player hasn't sat out a year, or shouldn't start over the Senior who once was a walk on. The senior guy is already going to school for free, and going to graduate with a degree that will give him a huge springboard for life. Isn't that enough?



You are doing much, much more than simply defending Nelson. And sure, others are buying into hype that Heaps is better than he is right now. But is that really a bad thing for people who normally wouldn't be, to be excited about BYU?

Wait a minute, wait a minute. WHO ON THIS GREEN EARTH is excited about BYU football now that we have Jake Heaps that WASN'T already before we had him? Did Jake Heaps just bring us an extra 20,000 fans or something? The ONLY people who are excited about Jake Heaps AT ALL are people that were ALREADY following EVERY ASPECT of BYU Football and knew about the high school star ratings system. NOBODY from here to Timbucktoo is excited about BYU football because the almighty Jake Heaps decided to play here. Good grief. I hope the guy is a world beater myself, but come on.

snoscythe wrote:

Sure, others are buying into hype that Heaps is better than he is right now. But is that really a bad thing for people who normally wouldn't be, to be excited about BYU?

If it comes with the price of tearing down previous recruits, then yes, it is a bad thing. This isn't limited to Heaps/Nelson--that's just the most vigorous debate. It happened with Juice when everyone was naming him the starter before camp began and began dismissing DiLuigi and Drew Philips as nobodies who weren't good fits. It is happening now with Chambers being ripped on and people clamoring for Hoffman and Apo. I have no problem with starting better players--I just want them to win their spots/snaps with their performance in practice and in games instead of being handed them by fans on the basis of youtube highlights and star-rankings.

Do you watch the practices? No, you don't. So what is them "earning" the position, to you? Sitting out a year? Going on a mission before? What?



Chambers is being ripped on for on the field performance, not youtube videos.



Drew Phillips not being a good fit, not sure where you cam up with that. I don't remember anyone saying that. Di Luigi is a stud and a half, but again is being criticized for his past on the field performance. Also, (Some people can't let go of that.)



Who is being torn down, exactly? Riley? He is what he is, and he is not what he is not. I wouldn't say that anyone pointing that out is tearing him down. Jake isn't 100% ready for the qb spot, but that isn't entirely his fault, now. And with the retooling of our offense, nobody looks good out there. I have said it before and I will say it again until this ends, I don't trust Anae to run one offense expertly well, let alone two.



Riley hasn't put Jake away and has had ample chances to do so, so he has no one to blame but himself for that. And maybe he doesn't even need to blame himself for that. Maybe Jake is just the better guy for the job, with the offense set up the way it is. Is Jake ready? No. But that doesn't make the offense any more perfect for Riley. I would think for a traditionalist as you seem to be (forgive me if I'm wrong) that you would be more angry at us changing everything that has made us BYU, and that has put us on the map. (Unless you have personal ties, of course those ties would supersede ties to an institution)

taekwondave wrote:



Wait a minute, wait a minute. WHO ON THIS GREEN EARTH is excited about BYU football now that we have Jake Heaps that WASN'T already before we had him? Did Jake Heaps just bring us an extra 20,000 fans or something? The ONLY people who are excited about Jake Heaps AT ALL are people that were ALREADY following EVERY ASPECT of BYU Football and knew about the high school star ratings system. NOBODY from here to Timbucktoo is excited about BYU football because the almighty Jake Heaps decided to play here. Good grief. I hope the guy is a world beater myself, but come on.

What? This comment is purely wrong. Let's start with hundreds of writers across the nation that have practically removed the letters B-Y-and U from their keyboards that all have been speculating about him and to some extent following him for the last year.



And there are plenty of fence sitters that are paying attention to byu that wouldn't normally be.



Especially if we paraded him around (which we don't and that's a good thing), and especially if we had started him and only him game one.

...

taekwondave wrote:

taekwondave wrote:



Wait a minute, wait a minute. WHO ON THIS GREEN EARTH is excited about BYU football now that we have Jake Heaps that WASN'T already before we had him? Did Jake Heaps just bring us an extra 20,000 fans or something? The ONLY people who are excited about Jake Heaps AT ALL are people that were ALREADY following EVERY ASPECT of BYU Football and knew about the high school star ratings system. NOBODY from here to Timbucktoo is excited about BYU football because the almighty Jake Heaps decided to play here. Good grief. I hope the guy is a world beater myself, but come on.

What? This comment is purely wrong. Let's start with hundreds of writers across the nation that have practically removed the letters B-Y-and U from their keyboards that all have been speculating about him and to some extent following him for the last year.



And there are plenty of fence sitters that are paying attention to byu that wouldn't normally be.



Especially if we paraded him around (which we don't and that's a good thing), and especially if we had started him and only him game one.

Oh my gosh. You did it. You actually went and made yourself look worse.



Look dude, Jake Heaps coming here is big for US and us ONLY. Fence sitters? What "fence sitters" would NOT already be BYU fans but would have a Jake Heaps poster on their wall at home? You think "fence sitting" cougar fans heard JAKE HEAPS was coming and suddenly jumped back on the bandwagon??? :skeptic:



If any sportswriters have mentioned Jake Heaps and BYU it has much more to do with BYU and it's recent upgrade to ESPN darling that to some high school kid 5-star recruit that didn't even crack the top 100 high school athletes list. Every one of those sportswriters are the ones that are saying that this was the weakest quarterback crop in years. Now GRANTED, that MIGHT be simply because Jake Chose BYU instead of say, Florida or Notre Dame or USC but talking about Jake Heaps NOW says much more about BYU's new improved media position than it does some 18 year old that's never done anything. Being an all-world high school quarterback means JACK to me until you prove it on the field. See Ben Olsen.

If you think it doesn't matter to people, including bloggers, posters, and future recruits that the #1 OVERALL qb recruit chose to go here, then you are beyond help. It isn't that he's "Jake Heaps," it's that he is the #1 qb. I have managed to make myself look "more foolish" look who's talking. You're the moron on Cougarblue who can't stop talking about " how people should be going on missions," and other Not Safe for Football Forum talk.

No more apologies. I hope Heaps goes.



New postby taekwondave » 30 Apr 2010 10:32

You know, I came on here a few weeks ago and hinted that maybe it would be cool if Jake Heaps didn't win the starting job and felt the urge to serve a mission. I got REAMED by BYU2010 for doing so. Nobody else really got on my case but nobody really stood with me either.



Well screw it. I keep thinking about it and I'm gonna speak my mind about this.



I was talking to my dad the other day, who is just as big a fan as I am, about the Jake Heaps thing. I was SHOCKED to hear him say he didn't care whether he served a mission or not, he wants him to play. I was all, "But dad, what if it was me? When I went on a mission you CRIED you were so proud. When a couple of my cousins never made the effort to get out there and one came home early from the MTC you were so disappointed; not IN them but FOR them, because you knew what an important experience that was."



His response? "Yeah. Well. Jake Heaps isn't my son. And frankly. I don't care."



Blew me away. Now I love my dad. I think he's usually right about most stuff. He's always given me good advice and what-not but in this case...come on. Are we really such BYU fans that we care more about getting a few more stats or a couple more wins than we care about the actual PEOPLE that are putting up those stats? Do you really think we'll be THAT much better now with him starting than one of these other guys? Is there something wrong with waiting two years to see Jake do his thing? If Jake Heaps doesn't serve a mission, fine. That's just fine with me I guess. His choice is his choice and I'm sure I'll benefit with many enjoyable wins but again, for HIS sake, the chances of Jake Heaps having as much success in his football career as Steve Young had (A super bowl win, two NFL MVP trophies and a spot in the Hall of Fame) is miniscule. The chance of him getting injured or fizzling out in college or just never cutting it in the NFL are just too high. But here's the thing: despite all the Steve Young accomplished in his illustrious career with the 49ers, he STILL regrets not serving a mission in college. I watched him give a fireside address and with tears in his eyes say, "If there are any athletes out there considering not serving mission to continue in sports and using me as the example as why, please don't. (And I'm paraphrasing here because I can't find the talk.) Everything I've accomplished in sports is great but it just can't replace the experience of going to some little village somewhere and preaching the gospel. I could have had that experience and I passed it up and I wish I hadn't. Football will still be there for you. Don't believe the lie."



Now here was a hall of fame quarterback saying this. And you know what? Had Steve served a mission, I think he STILL would be a hall of fame quarterback. And I think he thinks so too.



So I'm sorry if my saying this offends you. I don't think Jake is committing a sin and will be or should be punished by God or by the football team or by the church and I certainly don't think he should be judged as less by us for not going. But for HIS sake. FOR HIS SAKE FOR FREAKING CRYING OUT LOUD AND WHAT IS SO WRONG WITH SAYING THAT?????? I hope the kid DOESN'T win the starting job here at BYU this fall and that he serves a mission instead.



Let that irk you all you want. Put words in my mouth again BYU2010, be my guest. Make assumptions about me and call me judgmental but FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, my mission was NOT a disadvantage to me and I don't believe it will be for Jake Heaps either. I, for one, hope the kid serves. I think it will be better for him; he can live a regret-free football career, and I think it will be better off for BYU. If the choice is having him here as a great quarterback starting now for the next four years or starting two years from now (because he served a mission) for THOSE next four years, I for one would pick two years from now for THOSE next four years. But either way, here's hoping for an undefeated, National Championship season at least once in my lifetime. (Well, I wasn't quite one year old when the first time happened, but I don't like to count that.)

Swell. As if this couldn't get more divisive, let's brings missions into the 'debate.'



How about we call a truce boys. We all want what's best for the Cougs--we just disagree as to what that is, and it's patently obvious that no one is persuading anyone else to join the respective dark sides. It's no longer a debate, it's a shouting match, and those are no fun online.



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Threads are gonna start locking quickly if people don't start learning how to have differing opinions without telling others how stupid their opinions are. The constant petty bickering is getting very old.

If anyone has a problem with me locking the thread, please PM me.