Twelve Yards Should = Termination

It's a down year. A rebuilding year, etc.



Only way Heaps is going to be able to make those throws in the future is if he starts practicing them now. Sooner or later, you're going to have to let him start throwing it long in game situations. Might as well start sooner rather than later.



Unfortunately, our WRs can't get any separation on CBs when moving down the field, so throws down the field are unfortunately going to be more prone to interception.

Italics wrote:
You haven't been reading much on the forums this year, have you?

Are you really that obtuse?

Gunk wrote:
It's a down year. A rebuilding year, etc.



Only way Heaps is going to be able to make those throws in the future is if he starts practicing them now. Sooner or later, you're going to have to let him start throwing it long in game situations. Might as well start sooner rather than later.



Unfortunately, our WRs can't get any separation on CBs when moving down the field, so throws down the field are unfortunately going to be more prone to interception.

So lets do it anyway? How 'bout we try to win the freaking games we have left to play? Power running is the strength of this offense that has few strengths. Heaps throwing 65-70 times a game is not the answer. That's what fall camp is for.

kitic77 wrote:

Italics wrote:

At some point, you have to let the kid throw the ball in the middle of the field and quit running out patterns, screens, etc.

Both of Jake's INTs against TCU weren't over the middle. One was a deep out into double coverage and the other was also to sideline that the LB leaped and grabbed.

Jakes first mistake was throwing to Ashworth-less in the first place. It's not like he'd make the catch wide open, much less in double coverage. Not a good throw, though.

CAFB_04-12 wrote:

It's a down year. A rebuilding year, etc.



Only way Heaps is going to be able to make those throws in the future is if he starts practicing them now. Sooner or later, you're going to have to let him start throwing it long in game situations. Might as well start sooner rather than later.



Unfortunately, our WRs can't get any separation on CBs when moving down the field, so throws down the field are unfortunately going to be more prone to interception.

So lets do it anyway? How 'bout we try to win the freaking games we have left to play? Power running is the strength of this offense that has few strengths. Heaps throwing 65-70 times a game is not the answer. That's what fall camp is for.

agreed. agreed. agreed.



let's go bowling, and hope we don't have Anae next year to create another EPIC quarterback screwup.

CAFB_04-12 wrote:

It's a down year. A rebuilding year, etc.



Only way Heaps is going to be able to make those throws in the future is if he starts practicing them now. Sooner or later, you're going to have to let him start throwing it long in game situations. Might as well start sooner rather than later.



Unfortunately, our WRs can't get any separation on CBs when moving down the field, so throws down the field are unfortunately going to be more prone to interception.

So lets do it anyway? How 'bout we try to win the freaking games we have left to play? Power running is the strength of this offense that has few strengths. Heaps throwing 65-70 times a game is not the answer. That's what fall camp is for.

Didn't say have him throw 65-70. Did say, they should let him throw it.



Power running 65 - 70 times a game isn't going to do it for us either. That's a one-dimensional offense. JJ isn't a power runner. Kariya can't shoulder all of it and really has only had two decent games this season. Juice is a freshman so will come with some mistakes. Regardless of how you slice it, our offense is less than stellar. There really is no "strength" to this offense. There's only some aspects that are better than others.



In practice, I bet Heaps makes the long throws. Our WRs can probably get separation when up against our defense and the practicing squad. So, the only way to get Heaps ready is to not write-off the throwing game. Again, sooner or later, he's going to have to get used to it.



You're trading short term results for long term success, which is never a good trade. I'd rather try to work out as many issues with Heaps this season than stretch it out into two painful "growing" seasons.

Gunk wrote:
Didn't say have him throw 65-70. Did say, they should let him throw it.

But the WRs and TEs aren't catching it! That's the problem with the passing game. Not whether Heaps can make the throws or not (though his passes at TCU were horrible). He has the skill, but he's not up to D1 speed yet.

Gunk wrote:
Power running 65 - 70 times a game isn't going to do it for us either. That's a one-dimensional offense.

And it's how a mediocre BYU beat a faster and much improved SDSU. With a dominating run game you don't have to run 65-70 times. Not sure how many run plays BYU called, but it ate up 45 minutes of game clock. It's the only thing they've done consistently well.

Gunk wrote:
JJ isn't a power runner.

I agree here, but he is a consistent play maker and needs to get the ball. He needs to keep it between the tackles against defenses with speed. He's one of the most consistent pass catchers as well.

Gunk wrote:
Kariya can't shoulder all of it and really has only had two decent games this season. Juice is a freshman so will come with some mistakes. Regardless of how you slice it, our offense is less than stellar. There really is no "strength" to this offense. There's only some aspects that are better than others.

I disagree here. I'm no stats man, but I'd be willing to bet a slice of cheese that BYU averages about 5 yards per run between the tackles this year.

Gunk wrote:
In practice, I bet Heaps makes the long throws. Our WRs can probably get separation when up against our defense and the practicing squad. So, the only way to get Heaps ready is to not write-off the throwing game. Again, sooner or later, he's going to have to get used to it.

Oh, if only we could play against our own corners every week. I'm not saying we write off the passing game. I'm saying we run a power-I heavy offense (not the spread) and run play action out of it when the game requires a pass. It's the only way I've seen us move the chains this year.

Gunk wrote:
You're trading short term results for long term success, which is never a good trade. I'd rather try to work out as many issues with Heaps this season than stretch it out into two painful "growing" seasons.

Well, it is important to win each game this season is it not? What Heaps needs is a full spring and fall camp to get up to speed. Practices during the season just aren't enough. I expect to see a lot of improvement with Heaps against worse competition (TCU is just good, no doubt about that).

Don't worry, Robert Anae just got the vote of confidence from Coach Mendenhall. This will be Anae's last season, if he keeps his job that long. Wouldn't be surprised to see Doman calling the plays before the year is out though.

I think Bronco will be more invovled with overall game plan, and if anae's veers from it, that will spell trouble. Bronco spelled out in his post game comments what he expects to see from the 2010 offense now and so I expect to see it too. Power I running game with play action. kariya gets more carries unless JJ decides to man up and hit the hole hard rather than dancing around so much. We will be a between the tackles power team from here on out, with play action passing mixed in. It will help the team win, help Jake, and help receivers get open. Basically we perform better, get more confidence, and win more. The spread should be for 3rd and long only.

Lawboy wrote:
I think Bronco will be more invovled with overall game plan, and if anae's veers from it, that will spell trouble. Bronco spelled out in his post game comments what he expects to see from the 2010 offense now and so I expect to see it too. Power I running game with play action. kariya gets more carries unless JJ decides to man up and hit the hole hard rather than dancing around so much. We will be a between the tackles power team from here on out, with play action passing mixed in. It will help the team win, help Jake, and help receivers get open. Basically we perform better, get more confidence, and win more. The spread should be for 3rd and long only.

Going to this kind of an offense is our only chance to save the season and save Heaps psyche, but a lot of BYU fans will not like it and will be calling for BYU to throw it on every down, because that's our "core" offense.

hawkwing wrote:

I think Bronco will be more invovled with overall game plan, and if anae's veers from it, that will spell trouble. Bronco spelled out in his post game comments what he expects to see from the 2010 offense now and so I expect to see it too. Power I running game with play action. kariya gets more carries unless JJ decides to man up and hit the hole hard rather than dancing around so much. We will be a between the tackles power team from here on out, with play action passing mixed in. It will help the team win, help Jake, and help receivers get open. Basically we perform better, get more confidence, and win more. The spread should be for 3rd and long only.

Going to this kind of an offense is our only chance to save the season and save Heaps psyche, but a lot of BYU fans will not like it and will be calling for BYU to throw it on every down, because that's our "core" offense.

I don't think so. BYU fans want to see first downs, and touchdowns. Be they throwing or passing. As long as we have a healthy balance, I don't care what we do. If we run successfully too much, they creep up and we do playaction. That is perfect. Run to set up the pass, as long as it's inside the tackles. Better yet, inside the guards. All under the I. None of this shotgun w/ split backs draw crap.



I mean, seriously, if Kariya runs for a TD you aren't going to have one person saying, "Man I wish that was a passing touchdown instead of a running one."

I'll gladly take 5 interceptions, if we can also get 5 touchdowns. It's frustrating to other true freshmen QBs around the country doing some pretty great things, throwing long balls, running the offense, and nobody seems paralyzed by the fact the kid is a freshman.



Heaps is not the problem here: 1)receivers, 2) dropped balls, 3) offensive play calling, 4) lack of creativity, 5).....

hawkwing wrote:

I think Bronco will be more invovled with overall game plan, and if anae's veers from it, that will spell trouble. Bronco spelled out in his post game comments what he expects to see from the 2010 offense now and so I expect to see it too. Power I running game with play action. kariya gets more carries unless JJ decides to man up and hit the hole hard rather than dancing around so much. We will be a between the tackles power team from here on out, with play action passing mixed in. It will help the team win, help Jake, and help receivers get open. Basically we perform better, get more confidence, and win more. The spread should be for 3rd and long only.

Going to this kind of an offense is our only chance to save the season and save Heaps psyche, but a lot of dumb BYU fans will not like it and will be calling for BYU to throw it on every down, because that's our "core" offense.

There. Fixed it for you.

bball wrote:
I'll gladly take 5 interceptions, if we can also get 5 touchdowns. It's frustrating to other true freshmen QBs around the country doing some pretty great things, throwing long balls, running the offense, and nobody seems paralyzed by the fact the kid is a freshman.



Heaps is not the problem here: 1)receivers, 2) dropped balls, 3) offensive play calling, 4) lack of creativity, 5).....

TOTALLY AGREE



Heaps was supposedly the best QB coming out of High School. There are other "lesser" freshman QBs out there putting up twice as many yards. Heaps isn't the issue.

BlueIsBetter wrote:
I don't think so. BYU fans want to see first downs, and touchdowns. Be they throwing or passing. As long as we have a healthy balance, I don't care what we do. If we run successfully too much, they creep up and we do playaction. That is perfect. Run to set up the pass, as long as it's inside the tackles. Better yet, inside the guards. All under the I. None of this shotgun w/ split backs draw crap.



I mean, seriously, if Kariya runs for a TD you aren't going to have one person saying, "Man I wish that was a passing touchdown instead of a running one."

I'm going to disagree with this. There were A LOT of BYU fans who wouldn't have accepted this kind of offense with Nelson - which is still the most effective BYU has been this year. I don't think those same BYU fans will accept it now with Heaps.

I will say this--Jake is struggling with confidence. I think it is a real problem, too. He needs more success as a QB, to learn to win. And I think he really needs to be more vocal and look the part in the huddle. I still think his biggest issue is that the is an 18 year old kid leading a bunch of more mature guys, and he needs to just take it and run. Leadership is not about age, it is about being a guy that rallies the guys and drives them to perform better. The offense is lacking that right now. I know it is alot to put on a true frosh, but it is time now for him to step into that role because the offense needs it badly.

I'm a Seattle area Cougar fan. What I'd like to see is Jake given an opportunity to make some of the throws that those of us up here saw him make regularly in High School. How about a 7 yard out pattern? He has the arm to throw that pass better than Hall could, and they ran that regularly with Max. Give him some of the standard throws to make, to loosen up a D. They let him throw these in the Washington game, but since then, its deep ball or short to backs. Open it up (after you hit the hole hard out of the I-formation).

kitic77 wrote:

I don't think so. BYU fans want to see first downs, and touchdowns. Be they throwing or passing. As long as we have a healthy balance, I don't care what we do. If we run successfully too much, they creep up and we do playaction. That is perfect. Run to set up the pass, as long as it's inside the tackles. Better yet, inside the guards. All under the I. None of this shotgun w/ split backs draw crap.



I mean, seriously, if Kariya runs for a TD you aren't going to have one person saying, "Man I wish that was a passing touchdown instead of a running one."

I'm going to disagree with this. There were A LOT of BYU fans who wouldn't have accepted this kind of offense with Nelson - which is still the most effective BYU has been this year. I don't think those same BYU fans will accept it now with Heaps.

I was going to say the same thing kitic. Funny how I get the feeling that changing the offense would be fine for a guy like Heaps, but not a chance in hell that would be the right thing if Nelson was running the show.



So I agree with both of you. BYU just needs to score. Run it, trickeration, pass every down. Who cares as long as you are getting the job done. And I seriously don't care who is running the O. Heaps, Neslon, Marshall, Munns, Lark, Just find the right combo for this team.

declocoug wrote:

BlueIsBetter wrote:
I don't think so. BYU fans want to see first downs, and touchdowns. Be they throwing or passing. As long as we have a healthy balance, I don't care what we do. If we run successfully too much, they creep up and we do playaction. That is perfect. Run to set up the pass, as long as it's inside the tackles. Better yet, inside the guards. All under the I. None of this shotgun w/ split backs draw crap.



I mean, seriously, if Kariya runs for a TD you aren't going to have one person saying, "Man I wish that was a passing touchdown instead of a running one."

I'm going to disagree with this. There were A LOT of BYU fans who wouldn't have accepted this kind of offense with Nelson - which is still the most effective BYU has been this year. I don't think those same BYU fans will accept it now with Heaps.

I was going to say the same thing kitic. Funny how I get the feeling that changing the offense would be fine for a guy like Heaps, but not a chance in hell that would be the right thing if Nelson was running the show.



So I agree with both of you. BYU just needs to score. Run it, trickeration, pass every down. Who cares as long as you are getting the job done. And I seriously don't care who is running the O. Heaps, Neslon, Marshall, Munns, Lark, Just find the right combo for this team.

The difference is: Heaps has a downfield threat arm, Nelson doesn't. There is always that chance that if you creep up, you will get burned deep. That leads to balanced defensive playcalling, if the offense is being smart about things. If Nelson didn't run the ball himself so damn much people wouldn't have cared as much about all the running plays. Problem was, he was running when it wasn't a running play called. One read, and then tuck and run. And that worked until they played man and stacked the box...

You're still calling on the offense to be changed from what the "BYU" offense is. BYU is not a "run to set up the pass" team. And Jake has YET to show he can complete the ball down field.



Here's the 2010 Riley Offense: One read, tuck and run for a few yards gain.

Here's the 2010 Jake Offense: One read, check down for a few yards gain.