Anther Heaps thread + other stuff

I can't believe just how negative people are toward Jake Heaps. He is not the only aspect in the passing game. There is blocking, route running, getting open, and catching the ball.

Heaps does have to read the defense, make a decision, and then "execute" his decision.

I personally, liked what I saw from Heaps today, he took a step forward and made progress and as long as he keeps moving in that direction BYU needs to keep starting him.

Today was actually the first game this season that I was able to attend so I was able to see the whole field. Wyoming's DBs are not supposed to be the nation's best (at least to my knowledge) yet, BYU's receivers RARELY got separation. You can't expect a freshman QB to fling the ball around with high success when he would be throwing into coverage all the time.

I have read posts that state that you can't use the fact that he is a freshman to excuse his poor performance.... WHAT??? You absolutely can. Less reps, experience, time around his team, etc... will OF COURSE result in more mistakes. The fact of the matter is he IS a freshman and he WILL get better everyone has seen his potential.

More post still complain about all the talk of potential and lack of showing that on the field. Those same people call for Lark or Munns based solely on the same thing they are complaining about POTENTIAL... They haven't shown anything in games either, and Heaps earned his spot on the field by showing in camp that he was better than those two, NOT just by potential. I, like many of you have also attended a few practices and seen those two throw the ball and I HIGHLY doubt either of them could come anywhere close to pulling a throw Heaps made today (couldn't see who it was to) Thing was thrown 30 yards on a rope, FRIGGEN BRILLIANT. (It was right before his TD toss)

I might think of more reasons to defend him later... but,

How about that pick 6 he threw? Holy :sick: , WOW, he had his man w/ daylight in front of him and shorted that throw my 8 yards at least. I wanted to vomit when I saw that. There is no excuse for that poor of a throw BUT, you don't send him to the bench for it either IMO. I'm not about to take a bullet for Heaps but, I still doubt anyone else on BYU's squad could do much better as I think he is playing for a reason.

I don't know what else to say about our starting QB. I just think we have been spoiled by John Beck followed by Max Hall. And it seems like we might be expecting too much from a freshman, even being as highly touted as he was.



The other stuff:

I LOVE OUR LBs.

Flame away!

I respectfully disagree on several points.

I can't believe just how negative people are toward Jake Heaps. He is not the only aspect in the passing game. There is blocking, route running, getting open, and catching the ball.

Heaps does have to read the defense, make a decision, and then "execute" his decision.

I can't believe that it has taken this long in the season for people to turn the finger towards Heaps. He has been part of the problem all season long. Not the biggest problem, but 90% of the fans have given him a free pass for mediocre AT BEST play this season. I feel like it is fair that people look at his game critically at this point.

I personally, liked what I saw from Heaps today, he took a step forward and made progress and as long as he keeps moving in that direction BYU needs to keep starting him.

I don't feel like I saw progress from him today. It was the same stuff I have been seeing all season. Lots of bad passes, bad decisions and check down passes, mixed with the occasional great pass and lots of dropped balls(even though today I felt like several of the drops were his fault for being behind the receiver).

I have read posts that state that you can't use the fact that he is a freshman to excuse his poor performance.... WHAT??? You absolutely can. Less reps, experience, time around his team, etc... will OF COURSE result in more mistakes. The fact of the matter is he IS a freshman and he WILL get better everyone has seen his potential.

I still disagree with the fact that he is a freshmen should be an excuse for him not produce. Like every other player on the field, you have to show up to the game and play ball. If you don't you are going to take criticism. Jake hasn't managed one good game this season, yes he is a freshman and yes his play has been poor.

nd Heaps earned his spot on the field by showing in camp that he was better than those two, NOT just by potential. I, like many of you have also attended a few practices and seen those two throw the ball and I HIGHLY doubt either of them could come anywhere close to pulling a throw Heaps made today (couldn't see who it was to) Thing was thrown 30 yards on a rope, FRIGGEN BRILLIANT. (It was right before his TD toss)

Heaps earned the right given 50% of the reps, where Lark and Munns did not recieve those reps. Go back to spring and give Lark the same number of reps and I think things would be very different. Yeah, we can only argue for potential off those others guys. But the difference is we are arguing about immediate impact (at least in my case). Heaps has great potential, granted, maybe next here he will be a decent Quarterback. Right now he isn't so lets see some of our other potential. And Yes that was a great pass, I would think both our other quarterbacks capable of making that same pass however.

ow about that pick 6 he threw? Holy , WOW, he had his man w/ daylight in front of him and shorted that throw my 8 yards at least. I wanted to vomit when I saw that. There is no excuse for that poor of a throw BUT, you don't send him to the bench for it either IMO.

Yes his pick six was ugly, but I sure hope our other Quarterbacks would be capable of making that easy pass.

I don't know what else to say about our starting QB. I just think we have been spoiled by John Beck followed by Max Hall. And it seems like we might be expecting too much from a freshman, even being as highly touted as he was.

I don't expect too much. I expect to see improvement and lead the offense, and Heaps hasn't shown me much at all. But like I have been saying today, we got the win because/despite of him. I wanted Heaps to prove something today and he didn't. Its about winning games right now, and we have invested in Heaps. I would love to see them give Lark a look, but I can't complain too much if we win the ball game.

Matty-B wrote:
I can't believe just how negative people are toward Jake Heaps. He is not the only aspect in the passing game. There is blocking, route running, getting open, and catching the ball.

All of which are taken into account by passer rating.

I expected his passer rating to improve this game, it didn't. I was disappointed, but he did enough to re-earn the starting spot against UNLV. I expect improvement against UNLV.

And, to the point - Heaps had incredible time to throw yesterday, received very little pressure, and missed wide open receivers. But for a call-back, he would have had a second pick on another bad throw.



Yes, he is a freshman. Yes, this is about what I expected, only slightly worse after 8 games. It is why Nelson got the nod.



I am getting tired of hearing that the other two were beaten out and do not deserve a look. Yes Heaps beat out Lark who was fresh off a mission in Spring and Munns who was still on a mission unto just before Fall. I would imagine that both have had chances to improve their physical conditioning and knowledge of the offense.



I am not claiming that they have proven a thing, but give them a little more respect than Nelson got.



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hawkwing wrote:
I expected his passer rating to improve this game, it didn't. I was disappointed, but he did enough to re-earn the starting spot against UNLV. I expect improvement against UNLV.

It did improve. It was his third ever game - and second as a starter - with a rating over 100. Before Wyoming his rating was 86.45. It is now 87.56. An extremely minimal improvement, but improvement nonetheless.

Matty-B wrote:
I can't believe just how negative people are toward Jake Heaps. He is not the only aspect in the passing game. There is blocking, route running, getting open, and catching the ball.

Heaps does have to read the defense, make a decision, and then "execute" his decision.

I personally, liked what I saw from Heaps today, he took a step forward and made progress and as long as he keeps moving in that direction BYU needs to keep starting him.

Today was actually the first game this season that I was able to attend so I was able to see the whole field. Wyoming's DBs are not supposed to be the nation's best (at least to my knowledge) yet, BYU's receivers RARELY got separation. You can't expect a freshman QB to fling the ball around with high success when he would be throwing into coverage all the time.

I have read posts that state that you can't use the fact that he is a freshman to excuse his poor performance.... WHAT??? You absolutely can. Less reps, experience, time around his team, etc... will OF COURSE result in more mistakes. The fact of the matter is he IS a freshman and he WILL get better everyone has seen his potential.

More post still complain about all the talk of potential and lack of showing that on the field. Those same people call for Lark or Munns based solely on the same thing they are complaining about POTENTIAL... They haven't shown anything in games either, and Heaps earned his spot on the field by showing in camp that he was better than those two, NOT just by potential. I, like many of you have also attended a few practices and seen those two throw the ball and I HIGHLY doubt either of them could come anywhere close to pulling a throw Heaps made today (couldn't see who it was to) Thing was thrown 30 yards on a rope, FRIGGEN BRILLIANT. (It was right before his TD toss)

I might think of more reasons to defend him later... but,

How about that pick 6 he threw? Holy :sick: , WOW, he had his man w/ daylight in front of him and shorted that throw my 8 yards at least. I wanted to vomit when I saw that. There is no excuse for that poor of a throw BUT, you don't send him to the bench for it either IMO. I'm not about to take a bullet for Heaps but, I still doubt anyone else on BYU's squad could do much better as I think he is playing for a reason.

I don't know what else to say about our starting QB. I just think we have been spoiled by John Beck followed by Max Hall. And it seems like we might be expecting too much from a freshman, even being as highly touted as he was.



The other stuff:

I LOVE OUR LBs.

Flame away!

This is exactly how i feel. jake had better receivers p laying for him when he was in high school. i highly doubt any other qb in there would be doing any better. i am suprised to be honest tha the has done as well as he has considering the circus circumstances his coaches have put him and his team through.

hawkwing wrote:
I expected his passer rating to improve this game, it didn't. I was disappointed, but he did enough to re-earn the starting spot against UNLV. I expect improvement against UNLV.

give him guys who know how to run routes and catch balls and that rating will go up. i promise. just give him back his receivers he had in high school and his rating would go way up. our talent at wide receiver right now is very mediocre.

kitic77 wrote:

I expected his passer rating to improve this game, it didn't. I was disappointed, but he did enough to re-earn the starting spot against UNLV. I expect improvement against UNLV.

It did improve. It was his third ever game - and second as a starter - with a rating over 100. Before Wyoming his rating was 86.45. It is now 87.56. An extremely minimal improvement, but improvement nonetheless.

This is what is aggravating--he was supposed to look improved now that we are playing patsy defenses. Yes, he looked improved as compared to TCU. But some people are confusing "improved" with "good." Improved? Yes. But that was to be expected. He still looked far from "good."

jonnylingo wrote:

I expected his passer rating to improve this game, it didn't. I was disappointed, but he did enough to re-earn the starting spot against UNLV. I expect improvement against UNLV.

give him guys who know how to run routes and catch balls and that rating will go up. i promise. just give him back his receivers he had in high school and his rating would go way up. our talent at wide receiver right now is very mediocre.

Other QBs have thrown to these exact same receivers with better ratings. I'm not saying our receivers are blameless, if you've read any of my posts on the matter you know that, but we perform a disservice when we act as if Heaps is blameless in his poor rating.

hawkwing wrote:

hawkwing wrote:
I expected his passer rating to improve this game, it didn't. I was disappointed, but he did enough to re-earn the starting spot against UNLV. I expect improvement against UNLV.

give him guys who know how to run routes and catch balls and that rating will go up. i promise. just give him back his receivers he had in high school and his rating would go way up. our talent at wide receiver right now is very mediocre.

Other QBs have thrown to these exact same receivers with better ratings. I'm not saying our receivers are blameless, if you've read any of my posts on the matter you know that, but we perform a disservice when we act as if Heaps is blameless in his poor rating.

NOT THESE EXACT SAME RECEIVERS... that would be assuming they also didnt' have Harline, Pitta, Coats, Colliie, Reed, George, Tonga, Unga, etc. (these exact same receivers can only be understood under the context of this receiving corps and unless you're talking about Riley... no one has had to deal with this corps)



Why did Boldin make Fitzgerald a better receiver in Arizona? Because the defense couldn't concentrate on one or the other. If you double Pitta, you get open passes to George etc.



Yep, Heaps has been bad; but he's a true frosh with the most inconsistent and inexperienced receiving corps in BYU history... Take Max Hall (name anyone) as a true frosh with this corps of receiver and I honestly dont' think the record changes one bit... (true frosh, true frosh, true frosh)



If you can name me one receiver this season on the BYU team that deserves double coverage then you might need me to get you an antipsychotic.

craigoscarson wrote:

jonnylingo wrote:

I expected his passer rating to improve this game, it didn't. I was disappointed, but he did enough to re-earn the starting spot against UNLV. I expect improvement against UNLV.

give him guys who know how to run routes and catch balls and that rating will go up. i promise. just give him back his receivers he had in high school and his rating would go way up. our talent at wide receiver right now is very mediocre.

Other QBs have thrown to these exact same receivers with better ratings. I'm not saying our receivers are blameless, if you've read any of my posts on the matter you know that, but we perform a disservice when we act as if Heaps is blameless in his poor rating.

NOT THESE EXACT SAME RECEIVERS... that would be assuming they also didnt' have Harline, Pitta, Coats, Colliie, Reed, George, Tonga, Unga, etc. (these exact same receivers can only be understood under the context of this receiving corps and unless you're talking about Riley... no one has had to deal with this corps)



Why did Boldin make Fitzgerald a better receiver in Arizona? Because the defense couldn't concentrate on one or the other. If you double Pitta, you get open passes to George etc.



Yep, Heaps has been bad; but he's a true frosh with the most inconsistent and inexperienced receiving corps in BYU history... Take Max Hall (name anyone) as a true frosh with this corps of receiver and I honestly dont' think the record changes one bit... (true frosh, true frosh, true frosh)



If you can name me one receiver this season on the BYU team that deserves double coverage then you might need me to get you an antipsychotic.

I think he was talking about Nelson.

Who's also not a true frosh ;)

I still much of the blame on Coach Anae, and his schemes. I was so frustrated with the 2nd half play calling--especially in the 4th quarter. It was atrocious. He is not giving his team a chance to make plays. Sorry, but having 4 receivers in a pass play, and having all four run outside patterns within 2-10 yards of the LOS is not good offensive philosophy. I do not care who the QB is--it is BAD. This BYU offense does not attack the middle of the field. The irony is that throw to the middle are much easier for a QB to make--especially crosses. We threw what--4 times to themiddle all game? And 3 were dropped. And all 4 were within about 5 yards of the LOS.



Now--go watch the Utah game vs. CSU, and watch them attack the middle. Go watch Utah 2009 with a true freshman QB who attacks the middle downfield. Crosses, skinny posts, posts, inside curls. I hate admitting Utah has a better passing scheme than us--but they do, and it is because they work the middle like crazy. Go watch BYU with Detmer pick teams apart over the middle(see Miami game, in particular). Go watch 1996 Sark pick teams apart over the middle. Go watch 2001 Doman throw over the middle, or get rolled our to creat passing angles with misdirection. Now go watch 2006-present BYU football RARELY throw over the middle, almost never move the pocket with misdirection, and when it happens, it is a dump pass to a RB. Sorry, I hate watching the Anae offense. It uses our talent so poorly, it is pathetic. We need more RB passes to the flat, more WR crosses over the middle. More TE seem patterns over the middle. Less outside pat

terns which are tougher to throw. We actually need to include the far side receiver in the pattern. With Anae, we play 10 on 10, and do it with 2/3 of the field because the far side receiver takes such a wide position and NEVER gets the ball. Ever. Explain that logic to me? You can't, because it is stupid. it allow the other D to scheme safeties in positions that hurts us. Because our scheme compresses teh field for them.



I do not care which QB we use. Heaps, Larks, Munns. MAx and Beck had he same issues. The offense limited them because the scheme sucks. What made it work was NFL talent executing it, and imagine how much better they would have been with a good scheme. Austin Collie's brother said it best last week--Austin did more with 4 pass routes than any receiver in BYU history.



I am done with Anae. I have had enough of his crappy offensive play calls and schemes. BYU needs to move on from it.

Lawboy wrote:
I still much of the blame on Coach Anae, and his schemes. I was so frustrated with the 2nd half play calling--especially in the 4th quarter. It was atrocious. He is not giving his team a chance to make plays. Sorry, but having 4 receivers in a pass play, and having all four run outside patterns within 2-10 yards of the LOS is not good offensive philosophy. I do not care who the QB is--it is BAD. This BYU offense does not attack the middle of the field. The irony is that throw to the middle are much easier for a QB to make--especially crosses. We threw what--4 times to themiddle all game? And 3 were dropped. And all 4 were within about 5 yards of the LOS.



Now--go watch the Utah game vs. CSU, and watch them attack the middle. Go watch Utah 2009 with a true freshman QB who attacks the middle downfield. Crosses, skinny posts, posts, inside curls. I hate admitting Utah has a better passing scheme than us--but they do, and it is because they work the middle like crazy. Go watch BYU with Detmer pick teams apart over the middle(see Miami game, in particular). Go watch 1996 Sark pick teams apart over the middle. Go watch 2001 Doman throw over the middle, or get rolled our to creat passing angles with misdirection. Now go watch 2006-present BYU football RARELY throw over the middle, almost never move the pocket with misdirection, and when it happens, it is a dump pass to a RB. Sorry, I hate watching the Anae offense. It uses our talent so poorly, it is pathetic. We need more RB passes to the flat, more WR crosses over the middle. More TE seem patterns over the middle. Less outside pat

terns which are tougher to throw. We actually need to include the far side receiver in the pattern. With Anae, we play 10 on 10, and do it with 2/3 of the field because the far side receiver takes such a wide position and NEVER gets the ball. Ever. Explain that logic to me? You can't, because it is stupid. it allow the other D to scheme safeties in positions that hurts us. Because our scheme compresses teh field for them.



I do not care which QB we use. Heaps, Larks, Munns. MAx and Beck had he same issues. The offense limited them because the scheme sucks. What made it work was NFL talent executing it, and imagine how much better they would have been with a good scheme. Austin Collie's brother said it best last week--Austin did more with 4 pass routes than any receiver in BYU history.



I am done with Anae. I have had enough of his crappy offensive play calls and schemes. BYU needs to move on from it.

Seconded!