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KC is legit

by craigoscarson · 10/30/2010

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mizzoucoug
Does he hit open 3's? Can he defend D-1 2's?
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Gunk
dmcougar wrote:
Probably right about Charles. And I have to confess, I believe he's paid his dues and deserves something, but maybe he would be better off the bench as an enforcer and some scoring and really thrive blowing up the other team's 2nd's.


Charles needs to start. The biggest barrier I see impeding Charles from becoming the prolific scorer he could be is confidence. He needs the time on the court to boost his confidence, get in a rhythm and really establish himself as a go-to guy. Coming off the bench isn't going to help him in that regards.



Our top 5 leading scorers last season were:



Jimmer - 22 pts/game

Jackson - 12.5 pts/game (I don't know how you score half a point...)

Haws - 11.3 pts/game (whoever says Haws is a "dime-a-dozen" is smoking something. As a freshman he was our 3rd leading scorer. Just a point behind Jackson, a junior)

JT - 10.1 pts/game (this is coming off the bench)

Hartsock - 6.5 pts/game



Haws and JT are gone. That's essentially leaves a void of 21 points/game that needs to be filled. Jimmer will get the focus of every defense we play. I doubt he'll drop-off this season, but I don't seem him significantly raising that average. He'll probably be good for at least 20 pts a game, maybe 25 pts a game. He'll of course have those games where he'll just go nuts.



I just don't see Jackson increasing his pts/game much either. Noah and Davies could pick up some of the slack (I hope so), but given Rose's preference for guard/shooting I'm skeptical. My optimistic guess is Noah and Davies will be around 8 pts/game. Meaning, we still need someone to put in roughly 10 - 12 pts per game. Charles, I think, is our best option for that.
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Italics
My point with the "dime a dozen" comment.



Listen, Haws is a special player. During the regular season, I said nothing negative about him other than that it frustrated me how many times he opted to take fade-away jumpers rather than drive the open lane.



He's a great player and scorer.



But BYU has a lot of kids who can shoot the ball. As well as Haws? Maybe not. But the reason BYU fails to take their game to the "next level" is because we just aren't that big, and we just aren't that tough/physical. That's why teams like New Mexico and Kansas State walk all over us.



Why were we not a sweet 16 team last year? The missing factor was not shooting. The missing factor was defense, toughness, and an inside presence. Players like KC bring that, players like Haws don't.



And so, yes, on paper Haws is a better basketball player. But BYU needs a player like KC more.
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Gunk
Italics wrote:
My point with the "dime a dozen" comment.



Listen, Haws is a special player. During the regular season, I said nothing negative about him other than that it frustrated me how many times he opted to take fade-away jumpers rather than drive the open lane.



He's a great player and scorer.



But BYU has a lot of kids who can shoot the ball. As well as Haws? Maybe not. But the reason BYU fails to take their game to the "next level" is because we just aren't that big, and we just aren't that tough/physical. That's why teams like New Mexico and Kansas State walk all over us.



Why were we not a sweet 16 team last year? The missing factor was not shooting. The missing factor was defense, toughness, and an inside presence. Players like KC bring that, players like Haws don't.



And so, yes, on paper Haws is a better basketball player. But BYU needs a player like KC more.


Agree. Need more players that can take it to the rim, post up and play physical.
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Cougs_Rule
I dont know that KC is so good that he adds alot of toughness, as we need. Time will tell. CC will add much needed toughness, Charles, as well.

And last thing I want to turn this into is a KC vs Haws. I would take both players, any year.

Maybe KC will be better defensively than Haws, but that comparison is irrelevant this year.

But KC vs. Charles. All about match-ups.

Charles and KC will end up splitting that extra 10 points, again depending on opponents. Would love to see Charles develop an inside game similar to, what was his name a few years back...African American who had the great inside presence for a 3/4. Not Rose, the current manager.
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craigoscarson
dmcougar wrote:
I dont know that KC is so good that he adds alot of toughness, as we need. Time will tell. CC will add much needed toughness, Charles, as well.

And last thing I want to turn this into is a KC vs Haws. I would take both players, any year.

Maybe KC will be better defensively than Haws, but that comparison is irrelevant this year.

But KC vs. Charles. All about match-ups.

Charles and KC will end up splitting that extra 10 points, again depending on opponents. Would love to see Charles develop an inside game similar to, what was his name a few years back...African American who had the great inside presence for a 3/4. Not Rose, the current manager.


You mean Keena Young. (Mike Hall is the new grad asst)



Charles is a small forward and his toughness is a plus but if we cant' count on Davies, Hartsock, Anderson, and Collinsworth to rebound, we're going to lose games to more athletic teams. Fortunately, there arent' many of those on the schedule.
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Mars
Italics wrote:
we just aren't that big, and we just aren't that tough/physical. That's why teams like New Mexico and Kansas State walk all over us.

New Mexico "walks all over us"? That's news to me.



Besides, Haws "is a dime a dozen" because he's not a hulking, massive Center? Neither is KC bud. Neither is Jimmer. Dumb argument.



I think we miss Haws' scoring this year, and JT's. Guys like Abouo aren't ready to completely fill those gaps yet. Especially as an efficient mid-to-long range shooter.
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mizzoucoug
Mars wrote:
we just aren't that big, and we just aren't that tough/physical. That's why teams like New Mexico and Kansas State walk all over us.

New Mexico "walks all over us"? That's news to me.



Besides, Haws "is a dime a dozen" because he's not a hulking, massive Center? Neither is KC bud. Neither is Jimmer. Dumb argument.



I think we miss Haws' scoring this year, and JT's. Guys like Abouo aren't ready to completely fill those gaps yet. Especially as an efficient mid-to-long range shooter.


No, Italics' point is that the difference between a MWC contending year and an Elite 8 run for BYU is having serviceable big men who score down low and dominate the boards. We have not had this since Rafa. If CC, Noah, and Davies take care of business down low we will be scary good. You're focusing on the regular season only. Of course we will dominate our schedule--we've proven that we can handle the physicality of the MWC by pretty much outshooting them. But the Big 10, 12, and ACC will eat us alive again this year if we don't get physical players to step up. Rose teams always seem to fall back to live and die by the 3. I have a hard time believing we have replaced Haws' shooting ability, ergo, we need points in the paint and solid D. Davies, Noah, and Abouo need to play as much as possible against better teams.
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Mars
mizzoucoug wrote:
No, Italics' point is that the difference between a MWC contending year and an Elite 8 run for BYU is having serviceable big men who score down low and dominate the boards. We have not had this since Rafa.

No duh. But that has NOTHING to do with his ignorant comments about Haws. All he did was change the subject.
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Italics
Mars wrote:
No, Italics' point is that the difference between a MWC contending year and an Elite 8 run for BYU is having serviceable big men who score down low and dominate the boards. We have not had this since Rafa.

No duh. But that has NOTHING to do with his ignorant comments about Haws. All he did was change the subject.


Guilty as charged. Why do I even post here? I'd fit in better at hannahmontana.com
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EM_Puma
Mars wrote:


We're gonna miss Tavernari. We don't really have a bench 3-point shooter this year, outside of Steven Rogers, and he's a pretty hot or cold guy (cold more so than JT).


Ahhhh...maybe. I hope you're not suffering some halo effect here, but to me, when JT got married, he joined Miles and the many others that seemed to lose something when in their senior seasons you expected them to be more dominating. That's my perspective at least.
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Italics
EM_Puma wrote:


We're gonna miss Tavernari. We don't really have a bench 3-point shooter this year, outside of Steven Rogers, and he's a pretty hot or cold guy (cold more so than JT).


Ahhhh...maybe. I hope you're not suffering some halo effect here, but to me, when JT got married, he joined Miles and the many others that seemed to lose something when in their senior seasons you expected them to be more dominating. That's my perspective at least.


Mars will be on my case even more for saying this: But JT was next to useless for us the last two years. Forget the rare occasion where he shot a high percentage and put up double digit points (and when it counted too - not just in garbage time). Forget the fact that he was a good rebounder (something that any 4 should be able to do). The guy was more of a liability than anything - and for every game that he "saved" us, he had four games where he sucked. I don't miss JT one bit. The dude actually seemed to get worse. Slow and nonathletic. I liked his fire, though.
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Mars
Italics wrote:
Mars will be on my case even more for saying this: But JT was next to useless for us the last two years.

I'll disagree, sure. To some, watching JT play was like watching OC returns punts and kicks... he wasn't bad, he was actually fairly decent, but you always felt like he should be doing so much more.



To me, when I looked at JT statistically, he was a team leader in scoring, rebounding, and steals. He shot a pretty good percentage too. When you compared him to an ice-cold ball-hog like Marshall Henderson, it became readily apparent that there was absolutely NO comparison.



I hope the team fills his gap as quickly and easily as possible.
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Gunk
Italics wrote:
Mars wrote:


We're gonna miss Tavernari. We don't really have a bench 3-point shooter this year, outside of Steven Rogers, and he's a pretty hot or cold guy (cold more so than JT).


Ahhhh...maybe. I hope you're not suffering some halo effect here, but to me, when JT got married, he joined Miles and the many others that seemed to lose something when in their senior seasons you expected them to be more dominating. That's my perspective at least.


Mars will be on my case even more for saying this: But JT was next to useless for us the last two years. Forget the rare occasion where he shot a high percentage and put up double digit points (and when it counted too - not just in garbage time). Forget the fact that he was a good rebounder (something that any 4 should be able to do). The guy was more of a liability than anything - and for every game that he "saved" us, he had four games where he sucked. I don't miss JT one bit. The dude actually seemed to get worse. Slow and nonathletic. I liked his fire, though.


I loved JT's passion and confidence. Wish we could bottle it up and pass it around. The football team could certainly use some.



Only one other player on the team last year had a worse PPS (points per shot) rating than JT (1.14) and that was Brock Zylstra (1.06). And given the way our team rebounds many of those missed shot went right into the hands of our opponents. JT had the 3rd worse FG% last season, coming ahead only of Zylstra and Magnusson. His 3 PT% was 6th best on the team. Remove Lamont Morgan and Magnusson from that category since neither played much and he comes in at 4th. Considering he's supposed to be a prolific shooter, that's telling.



JT was 2nd in steals, 3rd best rebounder and 4th leading scorer. He was also a good team-leader, and as stated earlier, played his heart out. I have no ill feelings towards JT and wish him the best of luck. He was a team player, loved the fans and loved BYU.



However, if Abouo lives up to his potential, we'll all soon forget about JT.
M
mizzoucoug
The problem I had with JT was that for every exceptional pass or shot, he would make 3 bonehead plays such as trying to dribble the ball up the court. *shudder*
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Italics
mizzoucoug wrote:
The problem I had with JT was that for every exceptional pass or shot, he would make 3 bonehead plays such as trying to dribble the ball up the court. *shudder*


aye, well said
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tww
Italics wrote:
The problem I had with JT was that for every exceptional pass or shot, he would make 3 bonehead plays such as trying to dribble the ball up the court. *shudder*


aye, well said




And yet he is the all-time winner and all-time three point shooter in BYU history. :)
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craigoscarson
tww wrote:
mizzoucoug wrote:
The problem I had with JT was that for every exceptional pass or shot, he would make 3 bonehead plays such as trying to dribble the ball up the court. *shudder*


aye, well said




And yet he is the all-time winner and all-time three point shooter in BYU history. :)


not much longer...
S
SpiffCoug
craigoscarson wrote:
Italics wrote:
The problem I had with JT was that for every exceptional pass or shot, he would make 3 bonehead plays such as trying to dribble the ball up the court. *shudder*


aye, well said




And yet he is the all-time winner and all-time three point shooter in BYU history. :)


not much longer...

Jimmer should catch him in wins. JT won 97 games and Jimmer is at 82, but not in three-pointers. Jimmer is about 93 threes back.
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Gunk
kitic77 wrote:
tww wrote:
mizzoucoug wrote:
The problem I had with JT was that for every exceptional pass or shot, he would make 3 bonehead plays such as trying to dribble the ball up the court. *shudder*


aye, well said




And yet he is the all-time winner and all-time three point shooter in BYU history. :)


not much longer...

Jimmer should catch him in wins. JT won 97 games and Jimmer is at 82, but not in three-pointers. Jimmer is about 93 threes back.


Hmmm...all Jimmer would have to do is average 3 three-pointers a game.
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