Davies out for HC violation

Lawboy wrote:
HC strikes again. Another reason why BYU will always struggle to be elite in athletics. You can deny it all you want, but the facts do not lie. BYU loses key players every couple of years in hoops and football due to HC issues. Kids make mistakes they shoud not, but the HC sure makes sure they get punished for it. Glad my temple recommend interview is not as harsh or strict.



BY the way, in a year when BYU is a feel good story, this sure puts BYU under the spotlight for the wrong reasons. Principles be damned.



Also, when are BYU athletes going to realize that the women theyfool around with will go to their bishops and talk due to guilt? Seriously, Mormon women and guilt go hand in hand. ;)

Ditto! +1! I'm so darn flippin' smokin' mad right now - this is a sorry spot the Cougs are left in. A real golden opportunity to make a statement in the National spotlight! Then this! Dang it! (But I really want to say something else!!) Arrrggghhhhhhhh!!!!!!

:angry: :angry:

I will add my 2 cents on the honor code.



1. The Honor Code does not force anybody to do anything because nobody is forced to sign on the dotted line. Nobody is forced to attend BYU and thus nobody is forced to obey the honor code. It boggles my mind when I hear somebody who doesn't attend BYU complain about the honor code. You don't attend BYU so why do you care? It also boggles my mind to hear BYU students complain about the honor code. If someone were covering the costs of 70% of my tuition I'd follow whatever rules they set forth. If you don't like it than leave. Plain and simple.



2. As far as Davies is concerned. The official statement from BYU was less than 30 words long. Nobody on this board knows the details. People are jumping to conclusions and assuming that Davies stepped on the line and immediately got booted off the team. Nobody knows that. Nobody here knows if this was a first offense, 2nd, 3rd, 10th, 30th, etc. Nobody knows if Davies was on probation or not. Nobody knows what violation occurred. Assuming the worst is not fair to Davies and assuming the least is not fair to the University.



3. As to the Honor Code office itself. From my experience in leadership positions on campus I have learned this. A person who comes forward and willingly confesses a violation is handled a lot differently than someone who is caught/confronted about a violation. I'll leave it at that. Also it may seem like athletes are treated harsher than regular students but I have seen academic scholarships for non-athletes suspended or revoked due to violations as well.



And Those of you who are blaming the honor code for making this incident public are being ridiculous. You think that Davies not showing up to practice or the games wouldn't arouse some curiosity? The Athletic Department just announced it to get it out of the way. He's a public figure, his triumphs and his failures are always made public one way or another. It's probably not fair but that is just the way it is.



That was really long. Kudos to anyone who read it! :)

TBH, if we go all the way, this will get the Church a LOT of press.



I can see the headlines, WITH MORALS, BYU STILL WINS IT ALL.





blue glasses off.



WE ARE SCREWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDDDDDDDDDD

CannonCougar85 wrote:
Also it may seem like athletes are treated harsher than regular students but I have seen academic scholarships for non-athletes suspended or revoked due to violations as well.

This, Gunk, is why your claim that an athlete being kicked off a sports team is equivalent to a non-athlete being kicked out of school doesn't hold water. It's not a double standard. It's the same standard on two separate levels. Other people lose their scholarships but still stay in school, so why shouldn't athletes as well? (I'm assuming that in this case, Brandon will be able to stay in school as he has up till now, though there could be more news coming out that says otherwise).



To me, the athlete-honor-code-violation situation is more equivalent to someone who has sent out invitations that they're going to be married in the temple, then has their recommend revoked. They now have to go through the unpleasant process of telling people the wedding is off without going into details as to why, but it's not because the rules suddenly got tougher, it's just that their situation had been more public than, say, someone who has their recommend revoked, but no one ever knows, because they weren't getting married.

88Coug wrote:
I learned all I needed about the HC my first semester at BYU --- a couple guys on my floor came back drunk and got 4 service hours; another guy went to eat in his PJs and got 8 service hours.........

Yeah, my roommate got in trouble with the Bishop and then the HC office (when the Bishop pulled an EE for the summer) for Levi-lovin' with a girl in the ward. We told people who asked why he wasn't in school that Fall that he got reported by a professor for repeated grooming violations and that the HC finally suspended him for a semester.



That story is what I think about every time I hear someone getting punished by the HC for silly things.

When I was in school I knew of numerous guys and girls that were in trouble for HC violations. I don't recall a single one of them being dismissed from school. The HC worked with them to make the necessary changes so they could remain in school and get back into good standing.

It is not a fun thing to go through (I had to testify in one case) but I will say that the people making the decisions were always looking for ways to help the student. They took everything into account (confessed vs caught, Bishop's recommendation, etc.).

So this was my experiene with the HC and the people involved with it.



As for Brandon, I sure hope he is able to right his ship and get back for next year. I wish it wasn't so public but you have to take the bad with the good. Hasn't he been living the HC is whole life? It was just an assumption but I thought he was active etc growing up. This is not a judgement thing from me, heck I have made plenty of mistakes in my life and I sure as heck can't see the mote in his eye because of the beam in mine. But I see he made a "bad" choice and now moves on from it.



We still have a very good team but it has dropped from Great to Good. I hope Rose lights a fire under Andersons butt and gets him to pull his head out and start playing like the guy he should be. There is no reason a 6-10 player should consistently miss layups under the basket. It is a mental thing and he needs to get over it. He does okay on D but will need to be very agressive and hard working to get the rebounds that Davies was getting. I don't see us needing him to score a lot but if he could score a basket or two down low in the opening minutes it would go a long way to making them stay honest on defense.

Lawboy wrote:
Glad my temple recommend interview is not as harsh or strict.

My last temple recommend interview was stricter than the honor code.



1. Had to accept Joseph Smith as a true prophet and the prophet of the restoration.

2. Had to accept Thomas S. Monson as the living prophet, seer, and revelator today.

3. Had to not associate or sympathize with groups who advocate causes contrary to the Church's doctrines.



If the honor code was this strict, we would never have a non member on campus, let alone play for one of the sports teams.



But, the real problem with your statement is that comparing the honor code and the temple recommend is dumb.



A university education is NOT the same thing as entering the temple to make sacred covenants for eternity. Why should we try to compare the two?

Can't we get a stay on the dismissal from the team? If the HC just found about it on Monday, why levee punishment before an investigation even begins?



If he is found to be in violation, then dismiss him from the team and university. What will five weeks matter?

CAFB_04-12 wrote:

CAFB_04-12 wrote:

I've said this so many times in the last few years: BYU should have an honor code, but it should only be involved in appropriate things related to the student's relationship with the university itself and not regarding their worthiness in the church.

In other words, it should be just like any other institution of higher learning. This is a tired argument. The HC isn't a secret. It involves no more than average righteous Mormon living (no unmarried sex, no drugs, no alcohol, no weed, etc...). Is that really so hard?

I don't think it's about "being so hard", it's about it being appropriate. I don't think it is. As for our honor code being like every other institution's of higher learning, I addressed that in the rest of my note that you didn't quote. I don't think BYU needs an over the top, inappropriate honor code/system to be unique. It's unique in plenty of other major ways already.

Yeah, you're right. BYU is unique in that it is the only place in North America where you can buy caffeine free Mountain Dew.



Without the Honor Code BYU is just a Mormon Baylor.

Actually that's not true. Caffeine free Mountain Dew is the only kind of MD available in Canada. It's quite the thriving underground to buy American Dew and sneak it across the border into Canada for resell.

kitic77 wrote:
Can't we get a stay on the dismissal from the team? If the HC just found about it on Monday, why levee punishment before an investigation even begins?



If he is found to be in violation, then dismiss him from the team and university. What will five weeks matter?

I just ask who took him off the team? Was it a team violation to have an HC infraction so Rose enforced the action or did the HC approach the Bball and say Davies must leave? Maybe the punishment being levied is being done by Rose and not the HC...and that is why the HC is still deciding...That may play a part of the outline for what happened when and why. When all is said and done, sounds like Davies has confessed to an HC violation...so now the only thing left to decide is how long will he be gone from the team and will he still be enrolled in school in the long term.



I could also be completely wrong.

Lots of jumping to conclusions here. We don't know whats really going on here yet. However, I for one am glad for an institution that will put it's beliefs before it's successes.



Look up at the hill. How many players do they have that will be suspended from the team during the off season, and then reinstated?



I for one, like to think the best about people until proven wrong. That means, I feel bad for Davies, who probably got caught up in some kind of trouble that got worse and worse. I wont speculate on what that could be.



It also means that I assume those in the Honor Code office were not vindictively looking for an athlete to sacrifice, but rather were looking at a person (Davies) with love in their hearts and a good measure of inspiration trying to find the best/easiest transformation from a bad path to a good one.



Just as I believe the many different Bishops out there who deal with HC violations differently do so with love and inspiration to best help the individual right the wrong things in their life.



This means that Bishops and HC committees will treat people differently, sometimes wildly differently. Thats what I love about the Gospel. Am I naive enough to believe that all cases will be perfectly in-line with God's will? Of course not, but I have faith in the system.

kiwibacon wrote:

Can't we get a stay on the dismissal from the team? If the HC just found about it on Monday, why levee punishment before an investigation even begins?



If he is found to be in violation, then dismiss him from the team and university. What will five weeks matter?

I just ask who took him off the team? Was it a team violation to have an HC infraction so Rose enforced the action or did the HC approach the Bball and say Davies must leave? Maybe the punishment being levied is being done by Rose and not the HC...and that is why the HC is still deciding...That may play a part of the outline for what happened when and why. When all is said and done, sounds like Davies has confessed to an HC violation...so now the only thing left to decide is how long will he be gone from the team and will he still be enrolled in school in the long term.



I could also be completely wrong.

You gotta believe that after the Harvey Unga situation and the Shiloah Teo situation and the Michael Lloyd Jr situation that the Athletic Dept is erring on the side of "if you know something, pursue it."



BYU got some bad pub with both the Lloyd and Teo deals (How could Rose/Bronco not know? Rose/Bronco did know and sat on it! Bronco took the word of a player over facts and ultimately was embarrased and had to act. Etc.) and my guess is that the AD learned from that. BYU is an institution of higher learning after all!



We don't know what happend, or how much "behind the scenes" warning was given to Davies.



I hope he gets it right and gets back on the team next year. He's improved so much this year that he was going to be a HUGE key to next year's team.



TANGENT WARNING: I hope he doesn't get desperate and declare for the draft. With a lockout looming, that could really spell disaster for his development.

HoosierCougar wrote:

kitic77 wrote:
Can't we get a stay on the dismissal from the team? If the HC just found about it on Monday, why levee punishment before an investigation even begins?



If he is found to be in violation, then dismiss him from the team and university. What will five weeks matter?

I just ask who took him off the team? Was it a team violation to have an HC infraction so Rose enforced the action or did the HC approach the Bball and say Davies must leave? Maybe the punishment being levied is being done by Rose and not the HC...and that is why the HC is still deciding...That may play a part of the outline for what happened when and why. When all is said and done, sounds like Davies has confessed to an HC violation...so now the only thing left to decide is how long will he be gone from the team and will he still be enrolled in school in the long term.



I could also be completely wrong.

You gotta believe that after the Harvey Unga situation and the Shiloah Teo situation and the Michael Lloyd Jr situation that the Athletic Dept is erring on the side of "if you know something, pursue it."



BYU got some bad pub with both the Lloyd and Teo deals (How could Rose/Bronco not know? Rose/Bronco did know and sat on it! Bronco took the word of a player over facts and ultimately was embarrased and had to act. Etc.) and my guess is that the AD learned from that. BYU is an institution of higher learning after all!



We don't know what happend, or how much "behind the scenes" warning was given to Davies.



I hope he gets it right and gets back on the team next year. He's improved so much this year that he was going to be a HUGE key to next year's team.



TANGENT WARNING: I hope he doesn't get desperate and declare for the draft. With a lockout looming, that could really spell disaster for his development.

If you're Davies why wouldn't you declare for the draft? If he's been dismissed I'd be very surprised if he isn't also dismissed from the university as well. He can apply for readmittance in a year. So the EARLIEST he'll be eligible ot return to BYU is AUG 2012. I'd go pro.

Didn't Mekeli Wesley go through the same thing and came back and played?

Schmoe wrote:
Don't get pissed at the honor code, get pissed at the player. You don't want to follow the HC, you don't have to go to BYU. I'm sure Coach Rose is saddened more than anything that one of his players chose to screw up so badly.

absolutely could not agree more. All the HC haters in my opinion should not have signed it or at the very least don't understand that it is in fact about honor. You could put no skipping on campus and it would be a breach of honor code to skip - the content of the HC isn't the point its that you agree to live it. As for the "doling out punishment" in my HC experience only very very major or repeated violation have ever resulted in a punishment like Davies and Unga received.

Davies is not going to get drafted... He would be insane to declare! If this was the NFL draft, then maybe he'd get picked un the 7th round.



There are 58 players better than him in college basketball.

I appreciate those that have shown their support to the school and to Davies, realizing that this is a human situation, but also one of honor. It is an "honor" code, after all. I love the comments by this CBS blogger:

http://gregg-doyel.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/5881996/27718535" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Part of his story: "That's a debate for another day, but this is clear right now: BYU put honor above wins, possibly even above a national championship, unlike one basketball program I won't mention." (The unmentioned program is Tennesee).



I'm proud that BYU does put honor above winning. If it wasn't the case, they wouldn't have my support. I really think they've learned some lessons from the not-so-distant past. I think those of this site that seem to think the honor code is a joke might want to consider supporting another institution (like Tennesee).

MJCOUGAR wrote:

Don't get pissed at the honor code, get pissed at the player. You don't want to follow the HC, you don't have to go to BYU. I'm sure Coach Rose is saddened more than anything that one of his players chose to screw up so badly.

absolutely could not agree more. All the HC haters in my opinion should not have signed it or at the very least don't understand that it is in fact about honor. You could put no skipping on campus and it would be a breach of honor code to skip - the content of the HC isn't the point its that you agree to live it. As for the "doling out punishment" in my HC experience only very very major or repeated violation have ever resulted in a punishment like Davies and Unga received.

I don't think people are so much pissed at the HC, but at the severity of the punishment handed out by the HC office. It seems that sometimes the punishments don't fit the severity of the "crime". I personally am sick and tired of watching athletes careers derailed (and in this case, at about the worst time possible) for issues that should remain between the individual, their bishop, and the LORD.

Y 4 Ever wrote:



I don't think people are so much pissed at the HC, but at the severity of the punishment handed out by the HC office. It seems that sometimes the punishments don't fit the severity of the "crime". I personally am sick and tired of watching athletes careers derailed (and in this case, at about the worst time possible) for issues that should remain between the individual, their bishop, and the LORD.

Maybe that is why he will not be playing the remainder of the season so that he can focus on himself, with his Bishop, and the LORD. Basketball might get in the way of him focusing on that.

Y 4 Ever wrote:

Schmoe wrote:
Don't get pissed at the honor code, get pissed at the player. You don't want to follow the HC, you don't have to go to BYU. I'm sure Coach Rose is saddened more than anything that one of his players chose to screw up so badly.

absolutely could not agree more. All the HC haters in my opinion should not have signed it or at the very least don't understand that it is in fact about honor. You could put no skipping on campus and it would be a breach of honor code to skip - the content of the HC isn't the point its that you agree to live it. As for the "doling out punishment" in my HC experience only very very major or repeated violation have ever resulted in a punishment like Davies and Unga received.

I don't think people are so much pissed at the HC, but at the severity of the punishment handed out by the HC office. It seems that sometimes the punishments don't fit the severity of the "crime". I personally am sick and tired of watching athletes careers derailed (and in this case, at about the worst time possible) for issues that should remain between the individual, their bishop, and the LORD.

The severity and the punishment fitting the crimes are details we are not privy to. So whether or not it fits the crime is not really up to debate. Like other have said, I have faith in the system and I do not believe anyone in the HC office is out to get athletes in some sort of conspiracy.