Looks like we owe the HC Office and it's people an apology

Deleted.

BoiseBYU wrote:

Lawboy wrote:
I think it is safe to say that people at BYU who are responsible for releasing information to the public have learned that there are probably better ways to do it, and that they need to be careful with how they deliver messages to the public.

Good grief!!! By the year 2011, a bona-fide PR dept. should have their crappola packed tight enough to not make such a Freshamn mistake! The whole way this was handled has really smoked me ..... it stinks!!!



Bland wording, simple descriptions and little info are crucial. It is gets out from there, so be it. But I think it would be wise from now on to simply say "violation of team rules" for any athlete that is suspended or booted from school. The HC is a huge part of every teams rules, so it works.

As important as that is, another thing I have learned is NEVER feel that you have to react on their time schedule. You set the time. If you need more time to frame the message, then take it. I have found that people who act in haste caving into the belief that if they do not response immediately soon regret acting so quickly "We have no comment at this time" IS a valid response

Bam!! +1. It is critical to make sure you have shaped the message to say exactly what you want to convey. You are always truthful - no falsehoods. But, being truthful does not mean you reveal & share all the information you have. Especially during the investigative stages - because it is evolving - changing - taking form.



There are also PRIVACY issues!! Good grief - this is the 21st Century. We are not obligated to share & reveal everything the Press wants answers to. The Press are an awful bunch (ala Franchuck & Gorie Monson). Self righteous punks! I spit on those pukes!



I'm a big believer the Head Coach feels & acts protective of his players! He needs to protect them from themselves - and from the Press. I think Rose tried (and I believe Bronco tries) to do this. It looks like the PR meatheads & Franchuck opened doors that should not have been opened. I spit on them!

Did my post get deleted? Hahaha!!!!!

Gunk wrote:
Did my post get deleted? Hahaha!!!!!

Not by me. I deleted my own post - not because I wrote anything that needed to be deleted; I double posted like an idgit. Mongo slow. Mongo not smart.

:D

Ddawg wrote:

Did my post get deleted? Hahaha!!!!!

Not by me. I deleted my own post - not because I wrote anything that needed to be deleted; I double posted like an idgit. Mongo slow. Mongo not smart.

:D

I hate it when that happens.

I think its ironic that many were jumping on BYU and the HC Office with "how can they do this without an investigation, without all the facts? Nazis!" and it turns out that these posters were the ones who failed to investigate and get any facts.

Schmoe wrote:
I think its ironic that many were jumping on BYU and the HC Office with "how can they do this without an investigation, without all the facts? Nazis!" and it turns out that these posters were the ones who failed to investigate and get any facts.

Plus 1

Ya, except the only info we have is the info that byu botched in the off-ing. Not that I expect more info from them. Less would have been far better.

Hawk, isnt it trolling if a poster quotes another alleged post without a reference? I'm still a little unclear about your definition and code of trolling. Or am I just confusing the application of that code?

schmoe, respectfully, your logic doesnt escape me--i get what you are trying to conclude. It just fails. How would any of us who were critical be able to "investigate"--of course we couldnt. So, if I use your logic, you are guilty of the very irony that you allege/speculate upon those who did not "investigate."

I guess you deserve some credit for not posting much prior to much of the dust settling and facts emerging. Good job.

Schmoe wrote:
I think its ironic that many were jumping on BYU and the HC Office with "how can they do this without an investigation, without all the facts? Nazis!" and it turns out that these posters were the ones who failed to investigate and get any facts.

So know one is allowed to speculate or give their opinion based on what they're observing? Isn't that the point of a fan forum? By your logic, Schmoe, half the posts on this site would be eliminated, including yours.



Fact: Brandon Davies screwed up



http://www.kspr.com/sports/sns-bc-bkc--t25-byu-daviessuspended,0,541913.story" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Fact: Hundreds of BYU students make the same mistake(s) he made each year

Fact: Regular students get put on probation and no knows about it and they get to settle their sins in private with their bishop and if needs be the HC Office.



http://honorcode.byu.edu/sites/honorcode.byu.edu/files/investigation-and-administrative-review-process.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Fact: Brandon was kicked off the team, while he still remains eligible to attend BYU pending an ongoing investigation



http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/04/byu-stands-by-call-to-dismiss-star-athlete-for-honor-code-violation/?iref=allsearch" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Fact: A reporter made a call into BYU and BYU responded immediately without having completed their own investigation. If you recall, news of Unga leaving didn't break until BYU issued a press release after Unga had decided to leave.



http://www.heraldextra.com/sports/college/byu/basketball/article_e79438ee-4602-11e0-b84c-001cc4c03286.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700025207/BYU-football-Unga-leaves-school-due-to-honor-code-violation.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Fact: There is no public record and no illegal activity took place. Consenting adults made some mistakes



http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/41860904/ns/sports-college_basketball/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;





Fact: Took BYU an extra day to to come to the conclusion no illegal activity took place. In the mean time, the story had already broken and public speculation begin. BYU responded without having all the facts



http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/41860904/ns/sports-college_basketball/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Fact: There is a lot of misinformation circulating around about this situation

Didn't say that the posts should be eliminated, just that it was ironic. Agree or disagree about the irony of the situation?

Also, if you can't "investigate" anything, its probably good not to make huge assumptions and condemn whole departments of the Church's institution. I'd call that a stupid move, I'm sorry it hurts your feelings that I think being a hypocrite is a bad thing.

Schmoe wrote:
I think its ironic that many were jumping on BYU and the HC Office with "how can they do this without an investigation, without all the facts? Nazis!" and it turns out that these posters were the ones who failed to investigate and get any facts.

There ya go.

CougarPeasant wrote:

Yet, if it's just explained as violating team rules and then learned later it was, in fact, a serious honor code violation, isn't it better to just deal with it now than later? It was clear what the transgression was and what the likely punishment will be. Why wait another 4 weeks? This would only open up BYU to charges that it sat on the news so it could have Davies for the rest of basketball season. (Desirable as that is for all concerned, it's not how the Church and by extension, BYU, operates.)



I view it as pulling the bandage off. You can do it now and cause some pain, or delay it and cause pain then, but with possible more serious repercussions.

No matter how they phrase it.. "team rules", "HC violation" etc., the nature of the "crime" would probably get leaked by a student or someone within days no matter what.. then let the national media circus ensue.

Schmoe wrote:
Didn't say that the posts should be eliminated, just that it was ironic. Agree or disagree about the irony of the situation?

Also, if you can't "investigate" anything, its probably good not to make huge assumptions and condemn whole departments of the Church's institution. I'd call that a stupid move, I'm sorry it hurts your feelings that I think being a hypocrite is a bad thing.

Will we be seeing a Mod asking for a reference to any poster's "condem[ing] whole departments of the Church's institution"?



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">

Lawboy wrote:

My biggest beef is that the kid got booted off the team prior to the investigation being completed. Basically, it is guilty until proven otherwise, instead of not guilty until all the facts are compiled to make the case.



YOU wrote:

#2. The HC office is still investigating the information and yet they have determined an action. Good one HC office.



Spiffcoug wrote:

"Can't we get a stay on the dismissal from the team? If the HC just found about it on Monday, why levee punishment before an investigation even begins?"



Gunk wrote:

"HC Office won't apologize and won't acknowledge internally they messed up."



This thread where SenorCougar blames the HC for the loss to UNM: http://cougarcorner.com/viewtopic.php?f=3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Half of this thread is YOU condemning the HC office: http://cougarcorner.com/viewtopic.php?f=3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It was never the HC office SPECIFICALLY that I had a problem with, but the whole SYSTEM that INVOLVES the HC office. The PEOPLE in there are just doing their jobs. The problem is, regardless of whether they did the investigating that got Davies kicked out or Franchuk did, were the SYSTEM not as it was, the information would have been irrelevant and we'd still have Davies on the team. Not to mention a bevy of other fine athletes throughout the years. I get that you're trying to be charitable towards the people in the honor code office, and I support you in that, but they're just the face of our frustrations. It's really the board of directors that is responsible. Those of us that are angry for the most part, probably just feel it is taboo to question them.

Schmoe wrote:
Didn't say that the posts should be eliminated, just that it was ironic. Agree or disagree about the irony of the situation?

Also, if you can't "investigate" anything, its probably good not to make huge assumptions and condemn whole departments of the Church's institution. I'd call that a stupid move, I'm sorry it hurts your feelings that I think being a hypocrite is a bad thing.

Disagree...I don't see the irony.

Gunk wrote:

Didn't say that the posts should be eliminated, just that it was ironic. Agree or disagree about the irony of the situation?

Also, if you can't "investigate" anything, its probably good not to make huge assumptions and condemn whole departments of the Church's institution. I'd call that a stupid move, I'm sorry it hurts your feelings that I think being a hypocrite is a bad thing.

Disagree...I don't see the irony.

Ok, then just be happy with the obvious hypocrisy.