Is Caffeine Really Covered in the HC?

BlueIsBetter wrote:
If we didn't make a big deal of it, other people wouldn't. The problem is that too many "Dogmatic" (read: Stupid or Utah) Mormons don't know their own religion. (and p.s. I'm from Utah).





Too many are concerned with not watching rated R movies, and not drinking caffeine, that they are missing the whole point about religion.



"Adam fell that men might be, and men are, that they might live a dogmatic approach to all things religion and God, living life in fear, guilt and shame." Is that how it went? It's something like that...

So that's how it's suppose to read! Now I get it! Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!!! Very good point. To me, the religion (or doctrine) is the easy part to get. The hard part is "the people." Ahhhhh - there's the challenge.

;)

BlueIsBetter wrote:
If we didn't make a big deal of it, other people wouldn't. The problem is that too many "Dogmatic" (read: Stupid or Utah) Mormons don't know their own religion. (and p.s. I'm from Utah).

I live in Florida and there are plenty of dogmatic/Utah Mormons here who have never been to Utah nore are related to anybody in Utah. Those type of people exist wherever you might go and in whatever group you might be in. Peoples is peoples and Mormons is peoples also.

urroner wrote:

If we didn't make a big deal of it, other people wouldn't. The problem is that too many "Dogmatic" (read: Stupid or Utah) Mormons don't know their own religion. (and p.s. I'm from Utah).

I live in Florida and there are plenty of dogmatic/Utah Mormons here who have never been to Utah nore are related to anybody in Utah. Those type of people exist wherever you might go and in whatever group you might be in. Peoples is peoples and Mormons is peoples also.

Very well said.

Just FYI



http://www.energyfiend.com/the-caffeine-database" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Most cola soft drinks range in caffeine from 30-45 mg/12 oz serving.



Coffee has between 100-145 mg per serving. A 20oz cup of Tim Horton's coffee has 200mg.



Most energy drinks are just caffeine delivery systems mimicking 1-2 cups of coffee.



Also, caffeine is used as a flavoring agent in sodas, which is why its level is much lower than otherwise found in a cup of coffee.



Hot cocoa has perhaps the lowest amount of caffeine of the drinks that have caffeine. IT's only 5mg/ 8oz serving.

Every group has their fanatics that completely miss the point. Mormons, feminists, health nuts, liberals, conservatives, etc. We're all more alike then we are different.



But I will say this, I got quite tired of arguing time and time again in EQ while at BYU whether caffeine was okay, buying things out of a vending machine on a Sunday was okay, or paying tithing after taxes was okay. Splitting hairs and a little too Sadducee and Pharisee-like for me.

I certainly respect those who avoid caffeine completely as honoring the "spirit of the law". I drink my fair share of Mountain Dew (I'm drinking one right now), and don't feel guilty about it. I've had co-workers ask about the word of wisdom, and why I don't drink alcohol, or coffee, or tea, etc. The caffiene in soft-drinks issue has occasionally come up. My response? Sometimes we do things out of obedience. The word of wisdom was given at a time when little was known of the health risks/benefits of different foods and drinks. It has proven worthwhile. The prohibition against tea and coffee was specifically identified. I may be a little too "letter of the law", when it comes to soft-drinks, but I feel OK about it. How many who judge others about drinking soft drinks eat meat at other times than "times of winter, or of cold, or of famine"?

All I know is that one day I opened the refrigerator in one of the conference room at the LDS Distribution Center in Salt Lake and there were several 6-packs of caffinated Diet Coke inside, so drinking Diet Coke has to be true ;)

IowaCougar wrote:
How many who judge others about drinking soft drinks eat meat at other times than "times of winter, or of cold, or of famine"?

My take on section 89, in lieu of verse 13 reading "And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine," to delete a comma, it should read "And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine." To me that makes more sense, but then again, I ain't no prophet. :whistle:

hawkwing wrote:

BlueIsBetter wrote:
If we didn't make a big deal of it, other people wouldn't. The problem is that too many "Dogmatic" (read: Stupid or Utah) Mormons don't know their own religion. (and p.s. I'm from Utah).

I live in Florida and there are plenty of dogmatic/Utah Mormons here who have never been to Utah nore are related to anybody in Utah. Those type of people exist wherever you might go and in whatever group you might be in. Peoples is peoples and Mormons is peoples also.

Very well said.

I agree. Well said.

urroner wrote:

How many who judge others about drinking soft drinks eat meat at other times than "times of winter, or of cold, or of famine"?

My take on section 89, in lieu of verse 13 reading "And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine," to delete a comma, it should read "And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine." To me that makes more sense, but then again, I ain't no prophet. :whistle:

Now thats my way to mingle the philosophies of man with scripture! But I love meat, especially BACON!

hawkwing wrote:

IowaCougar wrote:
How many who judge others about drinking soft drinks eat meat at other times than "times of winter, or of cold, or of famine"?

My take on section 89, in lieu of verse 13 reading "And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine," to delete a comma, it should read "And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine." To me that makes more sense, but then again, I ain't no prophet. :whistle:

Now thats my way to mingle the philosophies of man with scripture! But I love meat, especially BACON!

They didn't have freezers back then, so they had to slaughter the whole animal. It didn't make sense to kill the pig so you could have bacon in the morning.



hence: winter, cold or times of famine.



Also, the most important thing about section 89 is the verse:

3. Given for a principle with a promise, adapted to the capacity of the weak and the weakest of all saints, who are or can be called saints.

Meaning, that is as "low as you can go" and still be called a Saint. Some people get zits when they eat chocolate; so their personal word of wisdom could also include "chocolate" if they so choose it to be. Caffeine turns my wife into a psycho-nut job, so she doesn't drink it. I do, once a week or sometimes less (I'm dieting, and I'm a tightwad, so I don't drink nearly what I used to)



I am allergic to cheddar cheese, so I don't eat it.



People fault on the premise that we can't drink Coffee or Tea because of the caffeine, which is wrong. We don't drink Coffee or Tea because God said not to, through a prophet.

This is a very personal topic for me, but simply because it is on ongoing discussion in my own home with my wife. She was raised very dogmatically. Her dad was a bishop, stake Pres, and now in a temple presidency. They were totally taught no caffeine as it is a violation of he WoW. No R-movies. No TV on Sunday. The thing is, you will find no prophetic statements on caffeine, but you will on R-rated movies, and plenty on the Sabbath. So as to movies, I am begrudgingly on board. President Kimball said it, gotta follow. . As to caffeine, I sparingly drink it, but promised my wife I would not bring it in the home for our kids. My siblings drink it in soda, and I personally see it as no big deal. I have kidney issues no, so avoid it for the most part. And as to TV on Sunday, well, I am the devil in our homes on Sunday. My wife has learned to deal with it much better than she used to. I am not a dogmantic person. I believe the President McKay approach and if you wonder what it is, go read on his views about the book Mormon Doctrine. It did exactly what he was afraid it might.

Gunk wrote:
Every group has their fanatics that completely miss the point. Mormons, feminists, health nuts, liberals, conservatives, etc. We're all more alike then we are different.



But I will say this, I got quite tired of arguing time and time again in EQ while at BYU whether caffeine was okay, buying things out of a vending machine on a Sunday was okay, or paying tithing after taxes was okay. Splitting hairs and a little too Sadducee and Pharisee-like for me.

Agreed. This is the trap of the honor code, WOW, etc.. we get so wrapped up in it, we miss the whole point. I still remember some guy in my EQ imploring us to follow the HC with some story about a girl on campus who had more than one earing per ear and how the light was gone from her countenance. The fact the he even made a mental note of it was ridiculous. Bringing it up in EQ to make that connection was insane. Luckily the vast majority at BYU have their heads on straight with good perspective, but falling into the pharisee trap is easy for some in that environment.

The only 'official' document I know of regarding caffeine is a Priesthood Bulletin (the kind usually read by the Bishopric member over the pulpit) that states:



"With reference to cola drinks, the Church has never officially taken a position on the matter, but the leaders of the Church have advised, and we do now specifically advise, against the use of any drink containing harmful habit-forming drugs under circumstances that would result in acquiring the habit. Any beverage that contains ingredients harmful to the body should be avoided."



Priesthood Bulletin, 1972



Later, Elder Vaughn J. Featherstone shared the following story in General Conference:



I was over in England a while back and a bishop asked me, "What is the Church's stand on cola drinks?" I said, "Well, I can't remember the exact wording of the bulletin, but I remember seeing the bulletin when I was a stake president. The Church, of course, advises against them."



He said, "Well, I have read the Priesthood Bulletin, but that isn't what it says to me."



And I said, "Would you get your Priesthood Bulletin? Let's read it together." And so we found under the heading "Cola Drinks": "… the leaders of the Church have advised, and we do now specifically advise, against use of any drink containing harmful habit-forming drugs. …" (The Priesthood Bulletin, Feb. 1972, p. 4.)



He said, "Well, you see, that doesn't mean cola."



I said, "Well, I guess you will have to come to your own grips with that, but to me, there is no question." You see, there can't be the slightest particle of rebellion, and in him there is. We can find loopholes in a lot of things if we want to bend the rules of the Church."



Vaughn J. Featherstone, “A Self-Inflicted Purging,” Ensign, May 1975, 66



I personally use them for medicinal purposes only, like when returning to Idaho following a late afternoon or evening football game. ;-) So I guess I'm still finding loopholes too.



Go Cougs!!!

J. Child

Ammon, ID



ps. If I need to post a link instead of copying and pasting from lds.org someone please advise and I'll fix it.

In the late 70's - early 80's my grandparents were missionaries in Sri Lanka. They had lots of limitations on them because the church wasn't officially recognized yet. That was part of their mission. Also, my grandpa was a Patriarch, so he was giving blessings to members in Sri Lanka and other countries they visited.



They also had some constraints in what they ate due to the cleanliness (or lack thereof) of the food production.



Then-Elder Faust told them not to drink the water. He said to drink Coke or Pepsi becasue they were bottled in clean environments, plus the carbonation would kill anything in their systems. Grandpa never liked Coke or Pepsi, but found what he called "this wonderful beverage": RC Cola. Also bottled in US-like standards and carbonated. Drank it for the rest of his life.



A true story I love to tell. :lol:



Flip side story: Last time we moved, the RS Pres came to help my wife clean the kitchen and she wouldn't go near the fridge until my wife took all the Pepsi Max out and put it in a cooler! :roll:

AmmonCougar1 wrote:
The only 'official' document I know of regarding caffeine is a Priesthood Bulletin (the kind usually read by the Bishopric member over the pulpit) that states:



"With reference to cola drinks, the Church has never officially taken a position on the matter, but the leaders of the Church have advised, and we do now specifically advise, against the use of any drink containing harmful habit-forming drugs under circumstances that would result in acquiring the habit. Any beverage that contains ingredients harmful to the body should be avoided."

There is that elusive definitive statement.. "Any beverage the contains ingredients harmful to the body should be avoided".. problem is, I'm pretty sure that BYU creamery ice cream with a caffeine-free coke chaser will kill us much faster than 50 mg/day of caffeine. When we start splitting hairs here it gets silly. Pretty soon we're living on an IV of wheat grass juice and metamucil.

What does it say in the new handbook? probably not much if any. Habit forming substances seems to be the wording the Brethren have settled on.

dmcougar wrote:
What does it say in the new handbook? probably not much if any. Habit forming substances seems to be the wording the Brethren have settled on.

Nothing specifically on caffeine.

Yeah, this can all get out of hand pretty easily. I just go by what I've heard from some men that I respect...if you're constantly looking for exceptions to guidelines then you should probably re-consider whether or not you are truly living the Gospel. That's enough for me.

NCPUMA wrote:

The only 'official' document I know of regarding caffeine is a Priesthood Bulletin (the kind usually read by the Bishopric member over the pulpit) that states:



"With reference to cola drinks, the Church has never officially taken a position on the matter, but the leaders of the Church have advised, and we do now specifically advise, against the use of any drink containing harmful habit-forming drugs under circumstances that would result in acquiring the habit. Any beverage that contains ingredients harmful to the body should be avoided."

There is that elusive definitive statement.. "Any beverage the contains ingredients harmful to the body should be avoided".. problem is, I'm pretty sure that BYU creamery ice cream with a caffeine-free coke chaser will kill us much faster than 50 mg/day of caffeine. When we start splitting hairs here it gets silly. Pretty soon we're living on an IV of wheat grass juice and metamucil.

Obviously you want moderation in all things, but the fact is that ice cream is almost exclusively things that our bodies need and can naturally and effectively use (fats, carbs, and proteins) whereas caffeine is not.