Topay or Not ToPay?

BlueIsBetter wrote:
Good points Rasta, but you would need to separate the sports from the colleges, because I'll be damned if my taxpayer dollars are going to go to getting the "next big thing" for Utah State, or the U.

I agree. I don't want the institutions to pay for play beyond what they already do. My belief is that an athlete should be able to immediately parlay their success into financial gain beyond the scholarship if they have that ability.

Look, Ethics experts would tell you that there is more than one type of ethics so what is "ethical" can actually depend on your beliefs and values. However, just because you have a set of values that you adhere to, thus making you a person of 'integrity', doesn't make your behavior acceptable to a group of people with differing values OR to the people your decisions harm.



I won't go through all 9 ethical value models but here are a few:



If you favor athletes being paid, you fall more into the deontology school. That's where you would be willing for this behavior to become a universal law, and you would see benefits and costs more equitably distributed. This comes at the expense of trying to measure benefits and costs as well as whether we'd be willing for support the added cost of everything we receive currently for free.



If you don't favor athletes being paid, you fall into the Utilitarianism school as well as the law of Social Contracts where you feel you're fulfilling your obligation to a harmonious society (follow duty and law) as well as providing the greatest benefit to the greatest number of people. Costs and benefits are just as difficult to measure here, but it also ignores the will of the minority.



The problem arises in this discussion about athletes when both sides are adhering to "values" the other side doesn't "value" especially when you see the other side breaking "the rules". [/u]



And to Kiwi's question of why I started this thread? it's because there are people with differing values trying to convince the other side out of its values. Good luck trying to argue away someone's set of values.



The other reason I started this thread was for people in both camps to see how many people shared their values sets. Nothing wrong with being in a minority, but keep in mind that Ethics is learned and not simply a 'moral compass' that you either have or don't have. Nazi's too had their ideals and when the world majority learned of their secret acts judged them extremely harshly for failing a differing standard.



My point is that each type of ethical behavior has significant limitations and while you're arguing for your values against someone with a different set, keep in mind that majority rules the standard for which is the "right" type of ethical behavior.

vancouvercougar wrote:
in my case it's toupe or not toupe. I'm going with not.

glad you got the play on words. ;)

I think you are wrong in your definition of "Utilitarianism."



I believe in contracts, but I definitely don't ascribe to wanting "the greatest benefit to the greatest number of people." That is collectivism, and it is inherently evil.



And contracts don't have "the greatest benefit for the greatest number of people" in mind. Contracts are to protect the individual.

Agree to the contract, JV. Man up and eat your words.



Where are student athletes being robbed? Because people are profiting off of their labors? Have you ever been employed? Do you think your boss "profited" off of your labor? So is the man/woman putting food on your table, and providing you with an income to support your family robbing you?



If your boss isn't paying you what you think you deserve (even though it is what you agreed to) is it okay for you to take a stapler home? Is someone that isn't paying you as much as you "deserve," even though you agreed to it when you had an opportunity not to, robbing you?



Please answer these questions JV. I'm curious.



And I've said nothing about supporting socialism. I support written contracts being upheld in the utmost honor. Without binding contracts, that are enforceable, we are nothing.

I don't know how many times we have to have this same conversation. I think we all know by this time to never, ever do any business with jvquarterback.