SG most important position in NBA?

Short_Change wrote:
A few more thoughts. This theory of mine is why I believe the Bulls won't win a title this year, maybe this could be why they're struggling against the Pacers, I don't know. The only all-stars at SG that I think the Jazz have even a remote possibility of getting are Ginobili and Joe Johnson. We may be resigned to getting one in the draft. I hope we go after at least 2 guards in this draft.

Where does this come from, by the way? Just because this is the way it happens in NBA 2k11 doesn't mean it happens in real life.



The Jazz don't have a snowball's chance in hell to get Ginobili, (nor would he want to come here) and Joe Johnson fits the Jazz mold very well (an average player that they are paying double what he is worth.) The Hawks would let Johnson go, but you better believe we would trade the farm for it, and not get much in return. And if you guys (wrongly) think Deron Williams wasn't a team player, just wait until we get a black hole - vacuum like Joe Johnson.



I'm not sure what your logic is here, if there is any.

Short_Change wrote:

Short_Change wrote:
This is an NBA/Utah Jazz topic but thought it might create some good discussion and wanted it to be seen.



I'm convinced that in today's NBA (looking back at the last 10 years) the 2 spot is the most important as far as winning an NBA title. Right behind that is a low post presence (i say low post presence because some 4's play like 5's and vice versa). If you look at the NBA champions from the last 20 years you have the: Spurs, Lakers, Heat, Celtics, Bulls, Rockets, & Pistons.



Almost every NBA Champ the last 20 years had an all-star at the 2 spot and if they didn't they had a top 5 guy in the post (Spurs are the only team that fits this category). The Pistons are the only ones that don't fit either criteria (I was on my mission, but how did they win the title? Unbelievable!). The NBA is a SG-dominated league.



If the Jazz want to get back to the NBA Finals and win they need to have an All-Star SG, which the Jazz haven't had in the last 20 years. Will Heyward start at the 2 or 3? If he starts at the 2, can he be an all-star at that postion? I say no. Who out there that's a legitimate All-Star SG could the Jazz trade for? Not only is Raja Bell not an all-star but he was probably the worst starter in the NBA at the 2 spot last year. We need to find a way to seriously upgrade at that position. Here's to hoping. Please share any thoughts you may have.

I disagree.. Spurs, Lakers, Heat, and Rockets won because of dominant big men. The classic example is the Rockets. They won by tossing the ball to Hakeem and he'd either score or kick the ball out to Cassel etc to hit a 3. That was their offense plain and simple. Drexler was overrated. Spurs have never had an all-pro 2. The Heat and Lakers fed off Shaq.

Can you say Ginobili? I hate the guy, but he's been their best player for a while now, IMO. He has been an all-star 2 for a while now.

exactly, he's great and he's been their best player for a while now.. but they haven't won a championship for 4 years, during which Duncan has become much less dominant than he was in the early 2000s. No dominant big man=no championship, usually.



I'll concede that a great 2 guard is important (hence why the Jazz got a huge boost when they traded for Hornacek).. but I'd build my team around a dominant big man.

Ginobli is also a bench player. If your best player starts the game on the bench because that's what he's more comfortable with, how great is he?

stuckinbig10country wrote:
Ginobli is also a bench player. If your best player starts the game on the bench because that's what he's more comfortable with, how great is he?

Good enough to be one of the most important cog on two if not three championship teams.

BlueIsBetter wrote:

A few more thoughts. This theory of mine is why I believe the Bulls won't win a title this year, maybe this could be why they're struggling against the Pacers, I don't know. The only all-stars at SG that I think the Jazz have even a remote possibility of getting are Ginobili and Joe Johnson. We may be resigned to getting one in the draft. I hope we go after at least 2 guards in this draft.

Where does this come from, by the way? Just because this is the way it happens in NBA 2k11 doesn't mean it happens in real life.



The Jazz don't have a snowball's chance in hell to get Ginobili, (nor would he want to come here) and Joe Johnson fits the Jazz mold very well (an average player that they are paying double what he is worth.) The Hawks would let Johnson go, but you better believe we would trade the farm for it, and not get much in return. And if you guys (wrongly) think Deron Williams wasn't a team player, just wait until we get a black hole - vacuum like Joe Johnson.



I'm not sure what your logic is here, if there is any.

Not sure what you're talking about here. Maybe re-read my whole post or clarify what you mean by "I'm not sure what your logic is here, if there is any." I said it looks like the Jazz will have to go through the draft to get a great SG.

Mars wrote:


Perhaps the most important player is the team manager.



I just read that Utah pays their players more than the Boston Celtics do. That's crazy-awful.

Jazz have the fifth highest salary in the league this year.

Short_Change wrote:

Short_Change wrote:
A few more thoughts. This theory of mine is why I believe the Bulls won't win a title this year, maybe this could be why they're struggling against the Pacers, I don't know. The only all-stars at SG that I think the Jazz have even a remote possibility of getting are Ginobili and Joe Johnson. We may be resigned to getting one in the draft. I hope we go after at least 2 guards in this draft.

Where does this come from, by the way? Just because this is the way it happens in NBA 2k11 doesn't mean it happens in real life.



The Jazz don't have a snowball's chance in hell to get Ginobili, (nor would he want to come here) and Joe Johnson fits the Jazz mold very well (an average player that they are paying double what he is worth.) The Hawks would let Johnson go, but you better believe we would trade the farm for it, and not get much in return. And if you guys (wrongly) think Deron Williams wasn't a team player, just wait until we get a black hole - vacuum like Joe Johnson.



I'm not sure what your logic is here, if there is any.

Not sure what you're talking about here. Maybe re-read my whole post or clarify what you mean by "I'm not sure what your logic is here, if there is any." I said it looks like the Jazz will have to go through the draft to get a great SG.

Right, I understand the first part. What I am saying, is I'm not sure what hat you pulled Ginobili and Johnson's names out of. The Jazz don't have a prayer of either of these guys. And neither would be especially good for them to get (Although Ginobili is a bonafide stud)

stuckinbig10country wrote:
Ginobli is also a bench player. If your best player starts the game on the bench because that's what he's more comfortable with, how great is he?

It's not that he is more comfortable starting from the bench... it just ended up that way w/ injuries, Steve Kerr retiring, etc. Minute per minute, Ginobili blows the rest of the NBA away in production. If it isn't broke, and you can extend his career... why fix it?





And did you really just ask how good Ginobili is rhetorically?



The man is going to make the HoF playing most his career from the bench - though still getting 30 -35 mins a game to be fair - but still, name one other guy to do that.

BlueIsBetter wrote:

BlueIsBetter wrote:

A few more thoughts. This theory of mine is why I believe the Bulls won't win a title this year, maybe this could be why they're struggling against the Pacers, I don't know. The only all-stars at SG that I think the Jazz have even a remote possibility of getting are Ginobili and Joe Johnson. We may be resigned to getting one in the draft. I hope we go after at least 2 guards in this draft.

Where does this come from, by the way? Just because this is the way it happens in NBA 2k11 doesn't mean it happens in real life.



The Jazz don't have a snowball's chance in hell to get Ginobili, (nor would he want to come here) and Joe Johnson fits the Jazz mold very well (an average player that they are paying double what he is worth.) The Hawks would let Johnson go, but you better believe we would trade the farm for it, and not get much in return. And if you guys (wrongly) think Deron Williams wasn't a team player, just wait until we get a black hole - vacuum like Joe Johnson.



I'm not sure what your logic is here, if there is any.

Not sure what you're talking about here. Maybe re-read my whole post or clarify what you mean by "I'm not sure what your logic is here, if there is any." I said it looks like the Jazz will have to go through the draft to get a great SG.

Right, I understand the first part. What I am saying, is I'm not sure what hat you pulled Ginobili and Johnson's names out of. The Jazz don't have a prayer of either of these guys. And neither would be especially good for them to get (Although Ginobili is a bonafide stud)

So it's your opinion that the jazz don't have a prayer at either Ginobili and Johnson. My opinion was that we had a remote chance of getting either of them. What does that have to do with logic and you wondering if I had any? If anything I'm the one using logic here.

Short_Change wrote:

So it's your opinion that the jazz don't have a prayer at either Ginobili and Johnson. My opinion was that we had a remote chance of getting either of them. What does that have to do with logic and you wondering if I had any? If anything I'm the one using logic here.

You're the one using logic? That's rich.



What are we (the Jazz) going to trade the Spurs or Hawks to get Johnson or Ginobili?

BlueIsBetter wrote:

So it's your opinion that the jazz don't have a prayer at either Ginobili and Johnson. My opinion was that we had a remote chance of getting either of them. What does that have to do with logic and you wondering if I had any? If anything I'm the one using logic here.

You're the one using logic? That's rich.



What are we (the Jazz) going to trade the Spurs or Hawks to get Johnson or Ginobili?

Are your serious man? I ALREADY SAID IT WAS A REMOTE POSSIBILITY, you're making it sound like it's impossible. Where's your logic man?



We're talking about a trade not signing a free agent. If the Jazz traded a few first round draft picks and a couple good players they could get Johnson or Ginobili it's not like those guys are Kobe, Lebron, Dwight, or D-Wade (there's only a small handful of guys that will probably never be traded).

We don't have a "few" future first rounders. We gave them up for the Jefferson trade.



Unless we gave up our two lottery picks, which would just be stupid. We couldn't get either guy for one pick, and we don't have anyone that is trade bait that we would give up. (Favors is the only guy I could see the Spurs being interested in.)



I'm just trying to understand why you picked these guys' names out there, but clearly you don't know why, or won't admit it. No big deal... MOVING ON!

p.s. we don't have "good players" on the Jazz (with the exception of Jefferson)

BlueIsBetter wrote:
We don't have a "few" future first rounders. We gave them up for the Jefferson trade.



Unless we gave up our two lottery picks, which would just be stupid. We couldn't get either guy for one pick, and we don't have anyone that is trade bait that we would give up. (Favors is the only guy I could see the Spurs being interested in.)



I'm just trying to understand why you picked these guys' names out there, but clearly you don't know why, or won't admit it. No big deal... MOVING ON!

You're a lost cause "BlueIsBetter". I guess we're both MOVING ON!

I don't think I'm the one that lost here. Just keep playing NBA 2k11...