Cusick, not Carlino, finished the game, hmm......

mizzoucoug wrote:

mizzoucoug wrote:
I am amazed that anyone thinks Cusick has worse handles than Carlino. Matt is very shaky with the ball all of our opponents know it, which is why he gets pressed most of the time.

Seems to me just the opposite, Carlino handles the ball much better and cu sick is the one they want to press. Just a few games back we lost a big lead because the other team started to press Cusick who turned the ball over several times and couldn't break he press. Carlino had to come back in and break their press.



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I might be mistaken because I haven't seen enough of Cusick handling the ball but I know I have seen Carlino make several turnovers off the dribble against defenders who play him tight.

Not to press the issue, bet yeah, you are pretty wrong here. Carlino has the better ball handling skills by about a 100.

Carlino: 54 assists & 31 turnovers in 316 minutes.

Cusick: 45 assists & 16 turnovers in 347 minutes.

Carlino's big problem is that he turns the ball over because he's a bit reckless (not to Abouo levels, but too reckless for the offensive production he's giving us). He also obviously doesn't play perimeter defense (all of our guards struggle with this).



Even when he gets the ball up the court no problem, he as good as turns the ball over by taking a rushed, off-balance, low percentage 3 point shot early in the shot clock and without getting the ball to the only effective offense we have, Noah Hartsock and to a lesser, but still important extent, Brandon Davies.



I really hope he can learn his place on this team, which is to push the ball up the court and feed it in to the real offensive threats. He'll still get his chance to get shots on kick outs, if he learns to play within the system.

SpiffCoug wrote:
Carlino: 54 assists & 31 turnovers in 316 minutes.

Cusick: 45 assists & 16 turnovers in 347 minutes.

Against WCC competition, instead of D1AA level competition...



Against similar opponents (ie games they both played).



Carlino Assists - Opponent they played - Cusicks Assists



2 - Baylor - 4

11 - Buffallo - 3

6 - USCB - 0

0 - UCSSM - 1

6 - SMU - 3

3 - USD - 3

7 - LMU - 0

4 - USF - 2

8 - USCB - 0

2 - USD - 0

3 - LMU - 4

2 - Pepperdine - 2



Carlino - 57 assists against similar opponents (since he has started playing)

Cusick - 19 assists against similar opponents.





1 - It's 57 not 54.



2 - I think that these numbers might be a little more better for comparing the two. If Carlino played those other games, it stands to reason that he would have triple the assists that Cusick does...



And we aren't even getting into ppg, rpg, spg, and all of the other things that Carlino is DEMOLISHING Cusick on.

I really don't understand the hate for Cusick here. He's ahead of Carlino in every stat except for free-throw shooting. He's got better FG and 3PT percentages, and a much better assist to turnover ratio. I agree that Carlino probably has a higher ceiling, but right now Cusick is playing better, and Rose is rewarding his steady play with more playing time.



Of course, BlueIsBetter is probably a much better coach than Rose, so we should give him free reign.

IowaCougar wrote:
I really don't understand the hate for Cusick here. He's ahead of Carlino in every stat except for free-throw shooting. He's got better FG and 3PT percentages, and a much better assist to turnover ratio. I agree that Carlino probably has a higher ceiling, but right now Cusick is playing better, and Rose is rewarding his steady play with more playing time.



Of course, BlueIsBetter is probably a much better coach than Rose, so we should give him free reign.

Cusick is good enough for this byu team and knows that his role is to get the ball down low.



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IowaCougar wrote:
I really don't understand the hate for Cusick here. He's ahead of Carlino in every stat except for free-throw shooting. He's got better FG and 3PT percentages, and a much better assist to turnover ratio. I agree that Carlino probably has a higher ceiling, but right now Cusick is playing better, and Rose is rewarding his steady play with more playing time.



Of course, BlueIsBetter is probably a much better coach than Rose, so we should give him free reign.

Well, I must be a better coach than Rose too because I don't see the infatuation with Cusick either. I'd take Murdock over Cusick.



Cusick is shooting "better" than Carlino because Cusick shoots it a 1/3 of what Carlino does. If Cusick took as many shots as Carlino, you can bet his FG and 3PT numbers would take a nose dive. Cusick is completely wide open when he shoots because defenses know he poses no threat whatsoever. They ditch Cusick to double Noah or Davies. They don't ditch Carlino. Hmmm...I wonder why?



At one point in the season Nate Austin was leading the team in 3PT percentage does that suddenly mean we move Nate to the 2 and set high screens for him to launch 3-bombs? No.



As Hawk says, all our guards stink at defense. All the ones getting significant min that is. However, I would rate defense as such Cusick < Carlino < Zylstra (Zylstra narrowly edges Carlino).



Rose, IMO, is playing timid and moving away from the transition style of ball that made him so successful. Our team is built to run the floor. Get stops on D, get boards and push the ball. Cusick is not that type of player. With Cusick in there BYU isn't playing BYU ball and it shows.

Gunk, I agree with you and I disagree with you.



BYU isn't playing BYU ball right now (I agree). But I don't think we should be either. Whats the point of getting Pope and having the 2 best big men in the league if we're going to have our guards jacking up threes in a fast transition game? Especially considering that fact that although we have the 2 best offensive big men in the league, we have the worst guards of the top 4 teams.



Play to your strengths. In another year or two, when Carlino has developed into the new Jimmer, play to that strength, but that time isn't yet.

hawkwing wrote:
Gunk, I agree with you and I disagree with you.



BYU isn't playing BYU ball right now (I agree). But I don't think we should be either. Whats the point of getting Pope and having the 2 best big men in the league if we're going to have our guards jacking up threes in a fast transition game? Especially considering that fact that although we have the 2 best offensive big men in the league, we have the worst guards of the top 4 teams.



Play to your strengths. In another year or two, when Carlino has developed into the new Jimmer, play to that strength, but that time isn't yet.

Noah and Davies are built to run. For the last three years those two have been running up and down the court with our guards. I don't see why that necessarily has to change.



We have arguably the best frontcourt in the WCC. Play to that strength by all means. I love it.



However, by becoming too focused on half court ball I think we're missing some low hanging fruit. We've lost touch with getting stops on D, grabbing boards and pushing the tempo.



And, part of the reason for that, IMO, is Cusick doesn't push the ball up the court like Carlino or Winder and Cusick doesn't get stops on D. Consequently, we become 1 dimensional and there needs to be a balance.



Carlino isn't the PG he'll likely become. Neither are Winder or Harrison the players they'll later be. But they need minutes. If those three could learn when to push the ball and when to pound it inside then I think we'll find that happy medium. Right now, it's lopsided and it's not going to balance out with Cusick getting significant minutes.



We won't beat SMC with the way we've been playing in the last few games.

BlueIsBetter wrote:

Carlino: 54 assists & 31 turnovers in 316 minutes.

Cusick: 45 assists & 16 turnovers in 347 minutes.

Against WCC competition, instead of D1AA level competition...



Against similar opponents (ie games they both played).

Ok.

Against conference foes:

Carlino 17 turnovers in 210 minutes (1 turnover every 12 minutes)

Cusick 7 turnovers in 139 minutes (1 turnover every 20 minutes)



Carlino 14 of 40 three pointers (35.0%) (1 three point make every 15 minutes)

Cusick 9 of 12 three pointers (75.0%) (1 three point make every 15 minutes)



Carlino 7 steals in 210 minutes (1 steal every 30 minutes)

Cusick 6 steals in 139 minutes (1 steal every 23 minutes)

Gunk wrote:

I really don't understand the hate for Cusick here. He's ahead of Carlino in every stat except for free-throw shooting. He's got better FG and 3PT percentages, and a much better assist to turnover ratio. I agree that Carlino probably has a higher ceiling, but right now Cusick is playing better, and Rose is rewarding his steady play with more playing time.



Of course, BlueIsBetter is probably a much better coach than Rose, so we should give him free reign.

Well, I must be a better coach than Rose too because I don't see the infatuation with Cusick either. I'd take Murdock over Cusick.



Cusick is shooting "better" than Carlino because Cusick shoots it a 1/3 of what Carlino does. If Cusick took as many shots as Carlino, you can bet his FG and 3PT numbers would take a nose dive. Cusick is completely wide open when he shoots because defenses know he poses no threat whatsoever. They ditch Cusick to double Noah or Davies. They don't ditch Carlino. Hmmm...I wonder why?



At one point in the season Nate Austin was leading the team in 3PT percentage does that suddenly mean we move Nate to the 2 and set high screens for him to launch 3-bombs? No.



As Hawk says, all our guards stink at defense. All the ones getting significant min that is. However, I would rate defense as such Cusick < Carlino < Zylstra (Zylstra narrowly edges Carlino).



Rose, IMO, is playing timid and moving away from the transition style of ball that made him so successful. Our team is built to run the floor. Get stops on D, get boards and push the ball. Cusick is not that type of player. With Cusick in there BYU isn't playing BYU ball and it shows.

I think you made my point for me. Cusick shoots when he's open, rather than whenever he feels like it. What a concept!

SpiffCoug wrote:

SpiffCoug wrote:
Carlino: 54 assists & 31 turnovers in 316 minutes.

Cusick: 45 assists & 16 turnovers in 347 minutes.

Against WCC competition, instead of D1AA level competition...



Against similar opponents (ie games they both played).

Ok.

Against conference foes:

Carlino 17 turnovers in 210 minutes (1 turnover every 12 minutes)

Cusick 7 turnovers in 139 minutes (1 turnover every 20 minutes)



Carlino 14 of 40 three pointers (35.0%) (1 three point make every 15 minutes)

Cusick 9 of 12 three pointers (75.0%) (1 three point make every 15 minutes)



Carlino 7 steals in 210 minutes (1 steal every 30 minutes)

Cusick 6 steals in 139 minutes (1 steal every 23 minutes)

BINGO. If a PGER existed, this is how it would be constructed. Nobody is arguing that Cusick is a better athlete than Carlino. The point, literally, is that this offense is running slightly better under Cusick. Why else did he finish the game the other night instead of Carlino? Rose wants and must win now. And if the guard line of an opponent fail to press and expose Cusick's press breaking abilities, and the big guys are winning the battle down low, then Cusick gives BYU the better chance of winning the game.



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I like both players. They bring something different to the team. The production level is very similar from a team stand point when they're in there. BYU just gets there a slightly different way. I like that we have two different guards that are both playing well (last week notwithstanding) that teams have to prepare for two different styles. I think it makes it tougher for us to be defended.



Of course, given our shooting the last two games, I'm not sure our opponents even have to play defense right now.

This is ridiculous. What has turned us into fans that hate one player and love another who play the same position. Carlino has a ton of that p word (potential). I enjoy watching him play. He's fast, he rebounds very well, when his shot is falling he's great. But I cringe sometimes as well (like when he got his pocket picked AND fouled the guy on the layup vs Baylor). When he learns to feed the post and take the open shots instead of jacking up stuff the first 7 seconds of the shot clock, his playing time is going to increase. Until then, I think that Rose knows that Cusick gives our offense the best chance at getting into a flow and Hartsock and Davies scoring. I like both of them. I think either one of them starting at pg would have given BYU a W in Logan and I'm glad both are wearing BYU blue.



Now, If Davies could figure out when to kick it out and Carlino knew when to dump it down BYU would be nigh to unstoppable.

BlueIsBetter wrote:

Cusick reminds me of Matt Montague a little bit...you remember that game manager? At least Cusick has some offense to speak of whereas Montague was an abysmal shooter.

Not really. Montague had a nasty crossover, and took it to the hoop with a vengeance.



There was a reason they gave him 5 feet cushion. They needed it to guard him. I haven't seen Cusick past the free throw line more than twice this season.



Montague was an offensive threat, and could thread the ball. Cusick unfortunately has neither going for him at this point.

Montague was a disaster shooting jumpers. I admired his ability to protect and distribute the ball. He was no threat to score. Cusick is a great fit on this team as he can knock down open 3's.



Defenders should have sagged off of Montague even more. They either didn't scout him or thought they could still pressure him without fearing his crossover. I looked up his stats and was stunned to see that Montague shot 31% on 3's his senior year.

jrhinomo wrote:

Magnus Ver Magnusson wrote:
Cusick reminds me of Matt Montague a little bit...you remember that game manager? At least Cusick has some offense to speak of whereas Montague was an abysmal shooter.

Not really. Montague had a nasty crossover, and took it to the hoop with a vengeance.



There was a reason they gave him 5 feet cushion. They needed it to guard him. I haven't seen Cusick past the free throw line more than twice this season.



Montague was an offensive threat, and could thread the ball. Cusick unfortunately has neither going for him at this point.

Montague was a disaster shooting jumpers. I admired his ability to protect and distribute the ball. He was no threat to score. Cusick is a great fit on this team as he can knock down open 3's.



Defenders should have sagged off of Montague even more. They either didn't scout him or thought they could still pressure him without fearing his crossover. I looked up his stats and was stunned to see that Montague shot 31% on 3's his senior year.

Yep. He was dreadful shooting, but was a legit threat taking it to the hoop and laying it up or kicking out for the open jumper.



I actually played against him a few times at a rec league right after he was playing at BYU. I gave him about 8 feet cushion. He was so pissed, :lol: . I was like "I know who you are..."



He was quick as could be though, and he had a legitimate first step on people. Cusick has been knocking down open 3's, but is a legitimate liability on defense. Also, he doesn't really get open 3's that much. We aren't looking for him, even if he is making them.



Bleh! I tire of this. Either we win easy games now and lose any tough games we come across later, or we put it all on black. I say we go with the guys that will give us our best chance to win. Carlino gives you way more reward than risk. I think the real risk is having Cusick guard anyone, and not contribute on the offensive end. If he was so good at feeding the post, as some would say, he would have more than 1.4 assists per game, no?

So you must disagree with Coach Rose's decision to have Cusick finish the game instead of Carlino?

Why did Rose go with Cusick to finish the game? Because he needed a win and his stats and gut told him in at least that game (maybe not all) Cusick gave him a better chance over Carlino.

Long term, maybe not. BUt Carlino has to learn a few lessons, like not jacking up three's like he's Jimmer. So many on this forum thought Heaps should have been benched much sooner and look and learn. I think that is what Rose is doing now. Look and learn and realize this year our bigs give us our best chance to win. When he learns that lesson, and puts first things first, and that he is not the hero he hopes to be, then he will be trusted more completely. AGAIN, I'm not bagging on Carlino and extolling Cusick. NOt trying to create a controversy for entertainment purposes. I want both to succeed and ultimately, Carlino to figure things out. He has tremendous upside--Baylor game showed that.

dmcougar wrote:
So you must disagree with Coach Rose's decision to have Cusick finish the game instead of Carlino?

Why did Rose go with Cusick to finish the game? Because he needed a win and his stats and gut told him in at least that game (maybe not all) Cusick gave him a better chance over Carlino.

Long term, maybe not. BUt Carlino has to learn a few lessons, like not jacking up three's like he's Jimmer. So many on this forum thought Heaps should have been benched much sooner and look and learn. I think that is what Rose is doing now. Look and learn and realize this year our bigs give us our best chance to win. When he learns that lesson, and puts first things first, and that he is not the hero he hopes to be, then he will be trusted more completely. AGAIN, I'm not bagging on Carlino and extolling Cusick. NOt trying to create a controversy for entertainment purposes. I want both to succeed and ultimately, Carlino to figure things out. He has tremendous upside--Baylor game showed that.

Well said, dmcougar (who thought I'd ever utter those words in this lifetime?? ;)).



There is no better learning tool than watching someone else do what you want to be doing. Learn from their mistakes and their successes and you'll be miles ahead of where you'd otherwise be.

Mars wrote:

Another game in a row with absolutely dismal guard play. I haven't seen one acceptable guard in the last 2 games.

Abouo played well, for once. Does he ever come in and play at the 2 position? Could Nate Austin, Noah Hartsock, and Brandon Davies all play at the same time (3-4-5)?

Good question. I would like to see how well that works in certain situations - maybe not with a really quick guy with blazing speed is opposing at 3.



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SpiffCoug wrote:
Carlino: 54 assists & 31 turnovers in 316 minutes.

Cusick: 45 assists & 16 turnovers in 347 minutes.

There you go again. Trying to confuse the emotional people with facts. Pretty even minutes with Cusick up 10%, Pretty even assists with Carlino 20% higher even with less minutes - advantage Carlino - but not night and day - good vs evil.



And we have Carlino 100% higher on turnovers even with less minutes. I think that more than offsets Carlino's assists. Big advantage Cusick.



OK Spiff. Toss in the points scored data, shooting %, and some kind of defensive stats and let's see if that data confirms that he has a meaningful role.



Hopefully both have upside and get better with experience.



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