Is BYU a home schooling version of college?

hawkwing wrote:
Dix you go to BYU, Larry? If so when? If not, where?

I graduated BYUH in 98 then went to a couple East Coast grad schools.



BYU campus police confiscated my poker cards during a youth conference though, so I'm assuming BYU and BYUH are pretty similar.



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declocoug wrote:

declocoug wrote:

declocoug wrote:
hmmm.... I don't think so. BYU was more liberal than my public high school.

BYU... liberal?



Did you go to "high school" in Colorado City?



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All a matter of perspective my friend. Most teachers at my high school would have been run out of town for teaching topics like evolution (most of my science professors), legalizing abortion, legalizing controlled substances (sociology), or for including foreign films in their curriculum that would have definitely been rated R (History courses and Russian film which was really trippy sometimes). That stuff was taught and shown at BYU pretty frequently.

So you did go to high school in Colorado City?



Did they preach this stuff though? How many pro life professors did you have? How many atheists? Let's be honest, teachings at BYU by-in-large matches what would be taught in most LDS homes. That's why the BYU/home school comparison seems valid to me.



TF, lots of parents force BYU on their kids, one way or another.



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I feel it's a poor comparison. And I don't have anything against home schooling.

Why? To me both attempt to do thes same thing--to provide an education without exposing kids to opinions that are contrary to personal beliefs.



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Larrycoug wrote:



Why? To me both attempt to do thes same thing--to provide an education without exposing kids to opinions that are contrary to personal beliefs.



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You do know that evolution is taught at BYU, and that a majority of the political science professors vote democrat. I've heard this idea expressed before - usualy by people who have an ax to grind, and don't mind taking liberties with facts...

Home schooling is often done to give students an accelerated track and more one-on-one time with their instructor. There may be a select few who do it to "shelter kids from wrong ideas," but to assume this about the majority is plain naive.

ABYUFAN wrote:

Why? To me both attempt to do thes same thing--to provide an education without exposing kids to opinions that are contrary to personal beliefs.



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You do know that evolution is taught at BYU, and that a majority of the political science professors vote democrat. I've heard this idea expressed before - usualy by people who have an ax to grind, and don't mind taking liberties with facts...

Evolution, or being a democrat, contrary to LDS beliefs?



Hate to say it, but those are rather sheltered examples.



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Larrycoug wrote:

Larrycoug wrote:



Why? To me both attempt to do thes same thing--to provide an education without exposing kids to opinions that are contrary to personal beliefs.



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You do know that evolution is taught at BYU, and that a majority of the political science professors vote democrat. I've heard this idea expressed before - usualy by people who have an ax to grind, and don't mind taking liberties with facts...

Evolution, or being a democrat, contrary to LDS beliefs?



Hate to say it, but those are rather sheltered examples.

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What would you consider to be areas of knowledge that BYU would refuse to cover?



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Dcr36 wrote:

What would you consider to be areas of knowledge that BYU would refuse to cover?



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Co-ed dorms.

Beer pong.

Prop 8 protests.

hawkwing wrote:

Larrycoug wrote:

What would you consider to be areas of knowledge that BYU would refuse to cover?



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Co-ed dorms.

Beer pong.

Prop 8 protests.

Heh.



Seriously, though. My first semester at BYU I took a philosophy of religion course. The non-believers/atheists got plenty of face time, as well as deists/pantheists/weak theologists/etc. Pretty sure all those count as "contrary to church doctrine."



I'll concede that the question "as an active LDS, how do you approach this?" was asked a few times. Additionally, class discussions were less heated than they would have been had their been more diversity of opinion. But the focus of the class was understanding, not apologetics.



It's important to remember that with BYU, as with any other university, the experience is heavily dependent on the professors you get. When I hear horror stories about BYU, I typically assume the kid got unlucky with his section choices. I know I had one BOM professor who is probably the epitome of what Larrycoug apparently hates. In my experience, though, that was the exception. Not the rule.



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Dcr36 wrote:

Dcr36 wrote:

What would you consider to be areas of knowledge that BYU would refuse to cover?



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Co-ed dorms.

Beer pong.

Prop 8 protests.

Heh.



Seriously, though. My first semester at BYU I took a philosophy of religion course. The non-believers/atheists got plenty of face time, as well as deists/pantheists/weak theologists/etc. Pretty sure all those count as "contrary to church doctrine."



I'll concede that the question "as an active LDS, how do you approach this?" was asked a few times. Additionally, class discussions were less heated than they would have been had their been more diversity of opinion. But the focus of the class was understanding, not apologetics.



It's important to remember that with BYU, as with any other university, the experience is heavily dependent on the professors you get. When I hear horror stories about BYU, I typically assume the kid got unlucky with his section choices. I know I had one BOM professor who is probably the epitome of what Larrycoug apparently hates. In my experience, though, that was the exception. Not the rule.



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hold on... I don't hate BYU--actually far from it. I loved my time at BYUH and will send my kids to a church school. I just think it's silly for byu fans to bag on home schoolers when we're basically doing the same thing ( at least in the case of home schoolers that do it to avoid contrary worldly opinions).



Are the openly atheist or gay professors at BYU?



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Larrycoug wrote:

hawkwing wrote:

Larrycoug wrote:

What would you consider to be areas of knowledge that BYU would refuse to cover?



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Co-ed dorms.

Beer pong.

Prop 8 protests.

Heh.



Seriously, though. My first semester at BYU I took a philosophy of religion course. The non-believers/atheists got plenty of face time, as well as deists/pantheists/weak theologists/etc. Pretty sure all those count as "contrary to church doctrine."



I'll concede that the question "as an active LDS, how do you approach this?" was asked a few times. Additionally, class discussions were less heated than they would have been had their been more diversity of opinion. But the focus of the class was understanding, not apologetics.



It's important to remember that with BYU, as with any other university, the experience is heavily dependent on the professors you get. When I hear horror stories about BYU, I typically assume the kid got unlucky with his section choices. I know I had one BOM professor who is probably the epitome of what Larrycoug apparently hates. In my experience, though, that was the exception. Not the rule.



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hold on... I don't hate BYU--actually far from it. I loved my time at BYUH and will send my kids to a church school. I just think it's silly for byu fans to bag on home schoolers when we're basically doing the same thing ( at least in the case of home schoolers that do it to avoid contrary worldly opinions).



Are the openly atheist or gay professors at BYU?



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Openly atheist? I'd guess yes - I knew of a couple of BYU professors who were openly irreligious, at least.



Openly gay (and openly non-celebate), probably not - professors have to go through endorsement checks with GAs and that's something that would come up.



I see your point - a "stumping," openly recruiting atheist professor would attract a lot of administrative scrutiny at BYU, while a stumping Mormon wouldn't. In my experience (at both schools), "stumpers" tend to be in the minority.



I guess where I disagree with you is this - when I see homeschoolers who are homeschoolers for ideological purposes, I see that as a form of cowardice. I don't see that from BYU - you may be sheltered from "experiences" but you probably won't be sheltered from "facts." And I don't really have a problem with that. A professor who rants against my beliefs doesn't scare me, but if possible, I'd prefer a more controlled discourse - not out of cowardice, but simply because I find the latter more enriching (and less annoying).



When I have kids, I think I will recommend BYU for undergrad and elsewhere for grad. It is important to learn to interact with those who believe and live differently from us, and to confront ideas that are uncomfortable. But I think the latter can be done at BYU, and that BYU provides experiences that make up for the delay it creates in learning to do the former.



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Larrycoug wrote:

hawkwing wrote:

Larrycoug wrote:

What would you consider to be areas of knowledge that BYU would refuse to cover?



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Co-ed dorms.

Beer pong.

Prop 8 protests.

Heh.



Seriously, though. My first semester at BYU I took a philosophy of religion course. The non-believers/atheists got plenty of face time, as well as deists/pantheists/weak theologists/etc. Pretty sure all those count as "contrary to church doctrine."



I'll concede that the question "as an active LDS, how do you approach this?" was asked a few times. Additionally, class discussions were less heated than they would have been had their been more diversity of opinion. But the focus of the class was understanding, not apologetics.



It's important to remember that with BYU, as with any other university, the experience is heavily dependent on the professors you get. When I hear horror stories about BYU, I typically assume the kid got unlucky with his section choices. I know I had one BOM professor who is probably the epitome of what Larrycoug apparently hates. In my experience, though, that was the exception. Not the rule.



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hold on... I don't hate BYU--actually far from it. I loved my time at BYUH and will send my kids to a church school. I just think it's silly for byu fans to bag on home schoolers when we're basically doing the same thing ( at least in the case of home schoolers that do it to avoid contrary worldly opinions).



Are the openly atheist or gay professors at BYU?



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Do you home school your kids?

ABYUFAN wrote:

Dcr36 wrote:

Dcr36 wrote:

What would you consider to be areas of knowledge that BYU would refuse to cover?



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Co-ed dorms.

Beer pong.

Prop 8 protests.

Heh.



Seriously, though. My first semester at BYU I took a philosophy of religion course. The non-believers/atheists got plenty of face time, as well as deists/pantheists/weak theologists/etc. Pretty sure all those count as "contrary to church doctrine."



I'll concede that the question "as an active LDS, how do you approach this?" was asked a few times. Additionally, class discussions were less heated than they would have been had their been more diversity of opinion. But the focus of the class was understanding, not apologetics.



It's important to remember that with BYU, as with any other university, the experience is heavily dependent on the professors you get. When I hear horror stories about BYU, I typically assume the kid got unlucky with his section choices. I know I had one BOM professor who is probably the epitome of what Larrycoug apparently hates. In my experience, though, that was the exception. Not the rule.



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hold on... I don't hate BYU--actually far from it. I loved my time at BYUH and will send my kids to a church school. I just think it's silly for byu fans to bag on home schoolers when we're basically doing the same thing ( at least in the case of home schoolers that do it to avoid contrary worldly opinions).



Are the openly atheist or gay professors at BYU?



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Do you home school your kids?

Nope. I'm way too lazy to pull off something like that.



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C'mon guys, you really can't get a real world view and experience unless you take the child porn and molestation classes, murder 101, and basic rape. I guess most universities are the home-school versions for liberal households since they shelter people from conservative values. This thread is asinine.

Schmoe wrote:
C'mon guys, you really can't get a real world view and experience unless you take the child porn and molestation classes, murder 101, and basic rape.

Sounds like your world view (at least your view of non LDS university curriculum) is a bit skewed.



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I know of a BYU professor who openly teaches socialism as superior to our 'failed capitalist system' and part of the class readings include Marx, Castro, and others I'd never heard of.



he does have regular run-ins with the admin however... I found the class enlightening.

Larrycoug wrote:

C'mon guys, you really can't get a real world view and experience unless you take the child porn and molestation classes, murder 101, and basic rape.

Sounds like your world view (at least your view of non LDS university curriculum) is a bit skewed.



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Not my world view, I went to a "non-LDS University," just pointing out that no one would want to send their child to a school that taught what they considered to be morally reprehensible (I was using hyperbole to make my point obvious).



There is a huge difference between understanding that other people believe and follow different ideologies than you (those who don't understand this are the "weird" home-schooled kids), and studying and exploring said ideologies. You don't have to be exposed to or study bad things to be intelligent, informed, and have an understanding of the world.

Schmoe wrote:

Not my world view, I went to a "non-LDS University," just pointing out that no one would want to send their child to a school that taught what they considered to be morally reprehensible (I was using hyperbole to make my point obvious).



There is a huge difference between understanding that other people believe and follow different ideologies than you (those who don't understand this are the "weird" home-schooled kids), and studying and exploring said ideologies. You don't have to be exposed to or study bad things to be intelligent, informed, and have an understanding of the world.

I think weird home schoolers think that everyone else have different ideologies--like teaching rape and murder in universities.



Also, I think understanding comes through exposure and study.



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What exactly does BYU not teach or expose their students to that you think they should, Larry? I know this may be a difficult question since you never attended (and yes there is a big difference between BYU-I and BYU -H) , especially considering several other posters have commented on BYU teachings that expose students to other ideas. But do your best, please.

Larrycoug wrote:

Not my world view, I went to a "non-LDS University," just pointing out that no one would want to send their child to a school that taught what they considered to be morally reprehensible (I was using hyperbole to make my point obvious).



There is a huge difference between understanding that other people believe and follow different ideologies than you (those who don't understand this are the "weird" home-schooled kids), and studying and exploring said ideologies. You don't have to be exposed to or study bad things to be intelligent, informed, and have an understanding of the world.

I think weird home schoolers think that everyone else have different ideologies--like teaching rape and murder in universities.



Also, I think understanding comes through exposure and study.



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I think dumb people don't understand hyperbole.



Also, why would you study what's wrong when you know what's right? Why wouldn't you strive to further understand what's correct instead of studying the incorrect things that others think? Sure, it can give you an understanding of how wrong others are, but that gets you no closer to what's right. Why do you need to have an understanding of wrong things?

Schmoe wrote:

Also, why would you study what's wrong when you know what's right? Why wouldn't you strive to further understand what's correct instead of studying the incorrect things that others think? Sure, it can give you an understanding of how wrong others are, but that gets you no closer to what's right. Why do you need to have an understanding of wrong things?

Is this the introduction from the "Jihadist's Guide to Home Schooling your Martyr?