Gay at BYU

I feel for the kids that recenty posted videos about being gay at byu. What and incredibly tough challange. And, it'll just get tougher and tougher as they get older to keep a testimony and stay in the church.



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Yep. I'm very grateful that's not a challenge given to me.



I do question the wisdom of forming a support group like this. I'm not sure how much good can come from it. Seems like a real quick, steep slope from getting together to talk about our same gender attraction temptations to meeting people we can relate to, to hanging out more with one person with the same temptation, to really going over the edge and essentially coming out in open rebellion against the commandments.

SpiffCoug wrote:
Yep. I'm very grateful that's not a challenge given to me.



I do question the wisdom of forming a support group like this. I'm not sure how much good can come from it. Seems like a real quick, steep slope from getting together to talk about our same gender attraction temptations to meeting people we can relate to, to hanging out more with one person with the same temptation, to really going over the edge and essentially coming out in open rebellion against the commandments.

Like Youth Conference.



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Poor analogy. The purpose of youth conference is not to discuss the temptations with which you are struggling with your peers. It's to strengthen the youth's testimony of the restored gospel.



But even at a youth conference you have youth who go there purely as a meet and greet and to hook up.

SpiffCoug wrote:
Poor analogy. The purpose of youth conference is not to discuss the temptations with which you are struggling with your peers. It's to strengthen the youth's testimony of the restored gospel.

.

Is it? I seem to remember the majority of talks and discussions at YC were about temptations with my peers. Also, the gay group's purpose is ultimately the same--to strengthen their testimony of the restored gospel.



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Agree to disagree.

Ok--though would you agree that the analogy would be closer if the Gay group's gathrings included slow dancing?



just seems like you ought to rethink your point about gay Mormons avoiding other gays.



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Yes and no. The purpose of youth conference - slow dancing included - is not to discuss your strong sexual desires with the people with whom you are attending.

SpiffCoug wrote:
Yes and no. The purpose of youth conference - slow dancing included - is not to discuss your strong sexual desires with the people with whom you are attending.

That was my purpose for attending youth conferences.



Kidding aside, why do you assume that's the purpose of the Gay BYU student meetings? There are obviously more effective forums to discuss your "strong" sexual desires with others than high profile, public, BYU meetings. Seems pretty clear that these kids are risking much to create a forum where they strengthen their testimony of the restored gospel given their unique challenges.

Like I said, agree to disagree.



I'm glad this wasn't a challenge I had. I can't imagine what those who struggle with it go through, and I don't even want to imagine it.

Our gay brothers and sisters, like all of us, need to know that they are not alone. Being gay and a member of the church has challenges that heterosexuals may not appreciate and consider. Gays meeting to talk of these challenges and share experiences can do much good. I am glad those opportunities are being made available at BYU.

Is group therapy bad? Is AA a bad idea for alcoholics?

urroner wrote:
Is group therapy bad? Is AA a bad idea for alcoholics?

It's a great idea for Anonymous Nymphomaniacs Anonymous....

It's one thing to struggle with an issue, it is something else entirely to invite the world into your struggle. It is hard for me not to see these folks as people wanting some time in the spot light. I get it your temptations are different than mine, I'm not out on youtube trying to invite the world to be sympathetic into my plight, also we have great group meetings where a group of imperfect folk get together on a weekly basis to discuss the struggles of life, we call it Sacrament Meeting. It's great and gennerally one gets out of it what one puts into it



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My observations on this topic, anecdotal as it may be. When I have observed gays getting together for "therapy" it turns into more of a confirmation and acceptance of a mutual problem rather than anything therapeutic or altering. In other words, though it may exist, it seems that gays getting together is rarely healthy or productive. In contrast, gays I know have been healthier and happier living in a "straight" environment with a loving family.



To me this seems similar to getting high school kids together to talk about contraception. The delusional theory is that it is going to help but in fact compounds the problem because (1) contraception is something of a lie because it only deals with a portion of a problem and gives a false sense protection, (2) It does no good to talk about it unless you have it. All of this makes the concept absurd. What right minded parent is going to send their kid on a date and send them off with a condom, or go with them to make sure they use it?



It seems that in both the cases of social groupings based on homosexuality and contraception for teens there exists a huge acceptance of some false reality that seems to put human intellectual pride before principles, common sense or the realities of life.



The world is getting crazier by the day and a growing number of "good religious" people feel a need to keep up.

Larrycoug wrote:
I feel for the kids that recenty posted videos about being gay at byu. What and incredibly tough challange. And, it'll just get tougher and tougher as they get older to keep a testimony and stay in the church.



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If I were gay, I can pretty much guarantee that I'd have left the church a long time ago. Being gay and Mormon is a challenge, but more so when the church has fallen far short of dealing with it properly.



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Metal Bubba wrote:

I feel for the kids that recenty posted videos about being gay at byu. What and incredibly tough challange. And, it'll just get tougher and tougher as they get older to keep a testimony and stay in the church.



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If I were gay, I can pretty much guarantee that I'd have left the church a long time ago. Being gay and Mormon is a challenge, but more so when the church has fallen far short of dealing with it properly.



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I agree. The way the church has chosen to deal or not deal with it is a bit odd. I am sure a big part of the reason is because there is a huge political price to pay for any attempt to deal with it. I can understand the church preferring to deal with it only on a spiritual level but even there the point of action is a bit late in the game. It is logical to help a sinner repent (we have all been there) but it gets skewed when determining the point at which the sin began. It has been said by some that it is okay to be gay just not okay to act on it. I see this reasoning as problematic and contradictory. From the Lord himself we learn that we do not only sin by our actions but our thoughts as well. I believe the proper distinction would be that it is okay to be tempted but not okay to consider (or not reject) the temptation. This seems to be the point where things get confused for gays. They seem to think they have an inherent right to not reject the temptation but such a claim could be made by anyone for any temptation and with similar results. This type of thinking is not only dangerous but is it its nature, "anti-Christ." Now to be clear, I am not saying that a condition or a temptation makes one anti-Christ. What I am saying is that we can choose to accept Him and His laws or not. This does not require someone to be perfect or without blemish. All it requires is to acknowledge His law and His words as truth even though it accusation against us. Otherwise we disallow change and in doing so condemn ourselves.



Another anomaly that I have observed in relation to homosexuality is the trend to see no problem in changing the body to suit the brain through sex changes but at the same time to be violently opposed to changing the brain to suit the body.

tww wrote:
I agree. The way the church has chosen to deal or not deal with it is a bit odd. I am sure a big part of the reason is because there is a huge political price to pay for any attempt to deal with it. I can understand the church preferring to deal with it only on a spiritual level but even there the point of action is a bit late in the game. It is logical to help a sinner repent (we have all been there) but it gets skewed when determining the point at which the sin began. It has been said by some that it is okay to be gay just not okay to act on it. I see this reasoning as problematic and contradictory. From the Lord himself we learn that we do not only sin by our actions but our thoughts as well. I believe the proper distinction would be that it is okay to be tempted but not okay to consider (or not reject) the temptation. This seems to be the point where things get confused for gays. They seem to think they have an inherent right to not reject the temptation but such a claim could be made by anyone for any temptation and with similar results. This type of thinking is not only dangerous but is it its nature, "anti-Christ." Now to be clear, I am not saying that a condition or a temptation makes one anti-Christ. What I am saying is that we can choose to accept Him and His laws or not. This does not require someone to be perfect or without blemish. All it requires is to acknowledge His law and His words as truth even though it accusation against us. Otherwise we disallow change and in doing so condemn ourselves.



Another anomaly that I have observed in relation to homosexuality is the trend to see no problem in changing the body to suit the brain through sex changes but at the same time to be violently opposed to changing the brain to suit the body.

Great points.

TWW and others, your points are thoughtful and I need to digest more. I am not gay, but have family members who are. I share the following for consideration. Being gay in the church is a hard thing; it is lonely and too often excluding. Gay members who believe in and accept Christ and His Church have perhaps special needs to discuss working their way through the challenges they face. Joining together to share experience and ideas is one way to encourage and help themselves and others to stay true to their covenants. The Church has been very clear: being gay and feeling homosexual feelings is no more bar to the temple and church service than being straight and feeling heterosexual feelings. There are multiple letters from SLC to local ecclesiastical leaders making this very very clear. I do not think that gay people getting together to discuss being gay in this church is a road to immoral action at all. And who am I to say that these people ought not to get together? If they think it will help, if they feel the need to tell people, for example, that you can be gay at BYU and it is ok, what's the harm? It might encourage some who otherwise might give up and that would be tragic. I do not have all the answers or even very many. But in my heart at least I think the Church's members need to more fully open its tent to welcome these brothers and sisters in. By saying this I am NOT suggesting any of you are in error. I say this just from my experience in how too many church members treat gay members.

Hopefully this gay mormon support group can help decrease the suicide rate among young gay mormons.