Warning Signs

Cougarbib wrote:

This is not a hard schedule. The very best teams that BYU is playing against will just barely go bowling. I don't predict more than 8 wins for anyone other than Boise State and *maybe* Notre Dame (because of all the cupcakes they play).



Utah State might get 8 wins beating up on the WAC.



BYU has zero worldbeaters on the schedule. This is not even half the schedule that Max Hall played either his junior or senior year.



The Max Hall cougars would go through this years schedule without a loss. Our offensive identity died, and turned into defensive identity and strength. It is just too bad that the Max Hall cougars didn't have a defense half this good, they would have run the table and probably won a BCS game or two.

Go ahead - list the world beaters that Max Hall faced. And dob't try Florida State. We were heavily favored when they cleaned our crop. Do not give me a watered down Oklahoma team. Further - schedule difficulty is not about having 1 sure loss to a world beater - it is about having a ton of opponents on the road that will be favored.



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List those ND patsies too. 4-0 iirc vs Mich St, Mich, etc.

"Watered down Oklahoma team?" lol. They had one of the best defenses in the nation that year. Florida state was favored by 3 points when we played that game, not sure if you remember that or not. They had a decent defense that year too. I would think that a 13-0 Utah team that beat Alabama would be considered a world beater. Also, the afformentioned Oklahoma game, TCU that year (who if I remember correctly went to a BCS bowl the year prior and the year after.)



The number 1 and 2 TCU defenses in the nation come to mind. The 2 top 10 Utah defenses in the nation also come to mind. Also, SDSU under Brian Kelly (now the defensive mastermind behind ND, speaking of them) had a great defensive scheme, and the players to almost pull it off. They gave us a run for the money a couple times. New Mexico under Rocky Long, and then SDSU under Rocky Long. Air Force had a top ten passing defense when we played them.



We played plenty of good teams under Hall. Unfortunately we didn't win hardly any of those games, which has been a knock on Hall, Bronco, and Anae. But hall did it with absolutely NO help from the defense. You give Hall a defense like this years defense, and I don't have a doubt in my mind that we win a couple more games a year and make some serious noise.

Tulsa had 4 loses but they were all to teams who were ranked in the top 10 when they played them.



#1. Oklahoma

#8. Oklahoma St.

#4. Boise St.

#8. Houston

hawkwing wrote:
Tulsa had 4 loses but they were all to teams who were ranked in the top 10 when they played them.



#1. Oklahoma

#8. Oklahoma St.

#4. Boise St.

#8. Houston

Yes, that is true. They lost to practically anyone good they played, and those games weren't even close. (Auburn being the only exception, and they weren't even good last year, their coach is about to lose his job this year) But the rest of their schedule makes our schedule last year look like Murderers Row: Tulane, North Texas, Rice, SMU, UCF, Marshall, and UTEP



You don't get "points" for losing to good teams in drastic fashion, just ask BYU the last 5 years. It's not about who you have lost to, it is whom you have won. Unfortunately for BYU and TUlsa, that list isn't very long, or impressive the last few years.

BYU was 7 point favorites in the Florida St game in 2009.

SpiffCoug wrote:
BYU was 7 point favorites in the Florida St game in 2009.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8X1mW3KWfM

BlueIsBetter wrote:
I'm not sure. Did the words "a very good Tulsa team" just get typed?



Would that be the same Tulsa team that finished the season 8-5?



THe same Tulsa team that had a 99th overall rated defense?



The same Tulsa team that ended up in the "Armed Forces Bowl" along with the miserable Cougs?



VERY good? Hah. They gave us "all we could handle" because RIley Nelson was miserable at quarterback that day, and the much vaunted Michael Alisa disappeared. The defense gave the offense the ball all day, and they essentially just handed it right back to Tulsa without scoring time after time.

You need to take the Bibster with a grain of salt. He will say anything that makes his argument look better. I think he was dropped on his head a few too many times as a child.

northerncougar wrote:

I'm not sure. Did the words "a very good Tulsa team" just get typed?



Would that be the same Tulsa team that finished the season 8-5?



THe same Tulsa team that had a 99th overall rated defense?



The same Tulsa team that ended up in the "Armed Forces Bowl" along with the miserable Cougs?



VERY good? Hah. They gave us "all we could handle" because RIley Nelson was miserable at quarterback that day, and the much vaunted Michael Alisa disappeared. The defense gave the offense the ball all day, and they essentially just handed it right back to Tulsa without scoring time after time.

You need to take the Bibster every Cougarcorner.com posterwith a grain of salt. HeThey will say anything that makes his their argument look better. I think he was we were alldropped on his head our heads a few too many times as a child.

Fixed your post.

BlueIsBetter wrote:
I'm not sure. Did the words "a very good Tulsa team" just get typed?



Would that be the same Tulsa team that finished the season 8-5?



THe same Tulsa team that had a 99th overall rated defense?



The same Tulsa team that ended up in the "Armed Forces Bowl" along with the miserable Cougs?



VERY good? Hah. They gave us "all we could handle" because RIley Nelson was miserable at quarterback that day, and the much vaunted Michael Alisa disappeared. The defense gave the offense the ball all day, and they essentially just handed it right back to Tulsa without scoring time after time.

As usual - you either have not bothered to look below the surface, just want to argue, are being disengenious by omitting factual context, or just being stubborn.



Do you know who those other four losses were to? I do. That is why I said what I said. Tulsa's schedule relative to those four games is far tougher than any 4 games in any season BYU has ever played. Detmer was the only one that came close in his 8-3-2 season on the heels of his losses to Hawaii and Texas A&M after Heisman Day the prior year.



Scheduling Blue. Simply atrocious scheduling. You may recall - that The Bibster had researched this and predicted a close, tough game.



Please post for us the 5 losses for Tulsa including the ranking of their opponent.



Remember where Tulsa is. Do not be surprised if in addition to #25/6 BYU, teams like Oklahoma State, Oklahoma, Houston, Boise State show up on your list with a lot of Top 10 rankings.



This hyperbole of yours is what I referred to as bagging on your team.



Now if you had said Tulsa was a 5-loss* team

*The 5 losses were all against ranked teams resulting in less than stellar statistics



Then that would be balanced.



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mizzoucoug wrote:

Cougarbib wrote:
Exactly. A lot of fans are not as satisfied with 11 wins as The Bibster is. That is why I keep pointing out th eformula becasue it is usually the very same fans wantnig to play a steady diet of Wisconsin, Texas, Nebraska, Oklahoma, etc. That is not how to get there -because LSU and Alabama do not even get there that way. Nobody does.



The main reason I do not want to see BYU over-schedule is BYU ever mixes its next Jake Heaps mistake with a 2013 schedule - you are going to see 0-12 like UW did with Jake Locker. I do not think the BYU fan base can handle that. So let's not do it.



Or if T. Hill goes 6-6 next year or 5-7 and no bowl game - fans are going to turn on him like there is no tomorrow. I think it is unfair for any team to schedule such that they set their players up for failure.



Go look at Tulsa and their 5 losses last year. That was a very good team. They gave us all we could handle. They were probably better tnan U. And look what U did to us.

As interesting as it looks on paper, the 2013 season may prove your concerns right. Big name opponents are exciting but it will wear off quick if we start losing a lot.



I guess I'm wondering what kind of independent schedule you would want for BYU. Can you give a 12 game example of what you're talking about?

I disagree. People will be okay losing to big name teams as long as we compete. We lost to UT last season and we played an okay game, but I didn't see anyone up in arms about it. But these last 2 games were embarrassing and we lost the games ourselves. There is a big difference there. If we are putting up some points and giving ourselves a chance to win then the fans can accepts losses against a tough schedule.

What planet were you on after the Texas game? You didn't see anyone up in arms?



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BlueIsBetter wrote:

BlueIsBetter wrote:
This is not a hard schedule. The very best teams that BYU is playing against will just barely go bowling. I don't predict more than 8 wins for anyone other than Boise State and *maybe* Notre Dame (because of all the cupcakes they play).



Utah State might get 8 wins beating up on the WAC.



BYU has zero worldbeaters on the schedule. This is not even half the schedule that Max Hall played either his junior or senior year.



The Max Hall cougars would go through this years schedule without a loss. Our offensive identity died, and turned into defensive identity and strength. It is just too bad that the Max Hall cougars didn't have a defense half this good, they would have run the table and probably won a BCS game or two.

Go ahead - list the world beaters that Max Hall faced. And dob't try Florida State. We were heavily favored when they cleaned our crop. Do not give me a watered down Oklahoma team. Further - schedule difficulty is not about having 1 sure loss to a world beater - it is about having a ton of opponents on the road that will be favored.



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List those ND patsies too. 4-0 iirc vs Mich St, Mich, etc.

"Watered down Oklahoma team?" lol. They had one of the best defenses in the nation that year.



***********They converted their reserve tight end to center and their OL struggled kind of like BYU this year with a converted center with no experience. Could not protect their Heisman QB. Knocked out of the game. Continued to struggle after the BYU game. That is what watered down means. They were highly ranked going in but unranked soon after. ***£



Florida state was favored by 3 points when we played that game, not sure if you remember that or not. They had a decent defense that year too. I remember them either losing to or barely beating someone like Jacksonville State or someone like that right before our game and struggling and forcing out Bowden after they continued to struggle***** oh and we lost.



I would think that a 13-0 Utah team that beat Alabama would be considered a world beater. Also, the afformentioned Oklahoma game, TCU that year (who if I remember correctly went to a BCS bowl the year prior and the year after.). ******Yes - he lost to our arch rival*****^^



The number 1 and 2 TCU defenses in the nation come to mind.



****** Lost. Lost. That is my point. Hall and Beck also lost to the really good teams they faced - except Beck beating #15 TCU. That Oregon Bowl win was sweet too - although that was not a world beater Duck team.*****



The 2 top 10 Utah defenses in the nation also come to mind.



Yes - Max Hall played poorly - Simply poorly vs Utah and then threaded the needle for a muracle win. And then the Max Hall haters finally shut up. But, that was not a workd beater U team.



Also, SDSU under Brian Kelly (now the defensive mastermind behind ND, speaking of them) had a great defensive scheme, and the players to almost pull it off. They gave us a run for the money a couple times. New Mexico under Rocky Long, and then SDSU under Rocky Long. Air Force had a top ten passing defense when we played them.





******Stretching, aren't we Blue - and what were those World Beater teams ranked? I am not asking what the D was ranked - what was the team ranked. ******





We played plenty of good teams under Hall. Unfortunately we didn't win hardly any of those ******^ double negative - but I will work with it - DING DING DING ***^^ games, which has been a knock on Hall, Bronco, and Anae. But hall did it with absolutely NO help from the defense. ******* ok - if you say so. ABSOLUTELY NO HELP? And HE DID IT? You just acknowledged that He DIDN'T do it. An ABSOLUTELY NO = Absolute Hyperbole. Keep in Mund I was the poster who took tons of BS for defending Hall before he beat Utah ****^



You give Hall a defense like this years defense, and I don't have a doubt in my mind that we win a couple more games a year and make some serious noise.

******^I actually agree that Hall and Beck > Nelson and would fare better vs common opponents if playing for the same team********



******It is the hyperbolist in you that makes me say THIS is unnecessary BASHING on Nelson and your team and the quality of 2012 opponents.Totally Unnecessary**^^^^^€^





See * responses above. They should help you with your revision of history and poor recall.



************



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BlueIsBetter wrote:

BYU was 7 point favorites in the Florida St game in 2009.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8X1mW3KWfM

More help for Blue



Look up who FSU played before and after BYU and the result of those games - then let us know if World Beater applies.



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Cougarbib wrote:

I'm not sure. Did the words "a very good Tulsa team" just get typed?



Would that be the same Tulsa team that finished the season 8-5?



THe same Tulsa team that had a 99th overall rated defense?



The same Tulsa team that ended up in the "Armed Forces Bowl" along with the miserable Cougs?



VERY good? Hah. They gave us "all we could handle" because RIley Nelson was miserable at quarterback that day, and the much vaunted Michael Alisa disappeared. The defense gave the offense the ball all day, and they essentially just handed it right back to Tulsa without scoring time after time.

As usual - you either have not bothered to look below the surface, just want to argue, are being disengenious by omitting factual context, or just being stubborn.



Do you know who those other four losses were to? I do. That is why I said what I said. Tulsa's schedule relative to those four games is far tougher than any 4 games in any season BYU has ever played. Detmer was the only one that came close in his 8-3-2 season on the heels of his losses to Hawaii and Texas A&M after Heisman Day the prior year.



Scheduling Blue. Simply atrocious scheduling. You may recall - that The Bibster had researched this and predicted a close, tough game.



Please post for us the 5 losses for Tulsa including the ranking of their opponent.



Remember where Tulsa is. Do not be surprised if in addition to #25/6 BYU, teams like Oklahoma State, Oklahoma, Houston, Boise State show up on your list with a lot of Top 10 rankings.



This hyperbole of yours is what I referred to as bagging on your team.



Now if you had said Tulsa was a 5-loss* team

*The 5 losses were all against ranked teams resulting in less than stellar statistics



Then that would be balanced.



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Tulsa's D gave up 24 points to BYU and also 24 points to North Texas and 28 points to UTEP, both of which were garbage teams. Tulsa was not a good defensive team last year and yet we barely beat them. We made their D look fantastic. Riley was 17/40 with 3 picks and he was lucky it wasn't more.



But feel free to keep using Tulsa as a measuring stick for RN's greatness. It makes it much easier for new posters to see where you're coming from when they read your posts.