Warning Signs

KingCoug wrote:

Exactly. A lot of fans are not as satisfied with 11 wins as The Bibster is. That is why I keep pointing out th eformula becasue it is usually the very same fans wantnig to play a steady diet of Wisconsin, Texas, Nebraska, Oklahoma, etc. That is not how to get there -because LSU and Alabama do not even get there that way. Nobody does.



The main reason I do not want to see BYU over-schedule is BYU ever mixes its next Jake Heaps mistake with a 2013 schedule - you are going to see 0-12 like UW did with Jake Locker. I do not think the BYU fan base can handle that. So let's not do it.



Or if T. Hill goes 6-6 next year or 5-7 and no bowl game - fans are going to turn on him like there is no tomorrow. I think it is unfair for any team to schedule such that they set their players up for failure.



Go look at Tulsa and their 5 losses last year. That was a very good team. They gave us all we could handle. They were probably better tnan U. And look what U did to us.

As interesting as it looks on paper, the 2013 season may prove your concerns right. Big name opponents are exciting but it will wear off quick if we start losing a lot.



I guess I'm wondering what kind of independent schedule you would want for BYU. Can you give a 12 game example of what you're talking about?

Take any of the six BCS buster seasons and a schedule like any of those will be fine. Those six schedules are all pretty similar with Utah's last one probably being toughest and Hawaii being easiest. Play a U or TCU MWC based schedule or a BSU or UH WAC based schedule with a manageable OOC - and you will get to play Alabama, Texas, Oklahoma, USC, Oregon, LSU, or someone like that for all the marbles in January. And if you come up a little short - you get 10-12 wins and a national ranking.



Look at BYU post 1984 when they started to over schedule in response to criticism of the 1984 schedule. It was mostly downhill from there. Ask Ty Detmer. No undefeated season there. 8 wins as a Sr. Sark had one big year - 14 wins - but lost one. Doman was 12-0 then lost two blowouts. And that was the glory. Beck and Hall got to 11 or 10 wins a few times. Nelson got us to 10 after Heaps' slow start.



And 2012 is a tougher schedule than any of those but maybe the Detmer 8 win season and maybe the Sark 14-1 season and it is on par with those. 2013 will be the toughest ever.

IowaCougar wrote:

We have a fun team to watch. We are ranked more often that not. Enjoy the games. Come early. Stay late. Hope for a miracle every year but never feel entitled to one. And 10-3, 11-2, over and over deserves respect and appreciation even if all of our dreams do not come true.



I will not be me wanting to fire everyone in sight if we lose a few games.



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I started as a freshman in 1973, and became a big fan right away. BYU had not had a winning season in years, and Gary Sheide was fun to watch. It was interesting, because BYU fans were thrilled when BYU was invited to the Tangerine bowl (I'm not sure if it was that year or not), even though they got blown out.



I think today's fans have become spoiled, and have a hard time realizing that there are two teams playing every game, and one of them is going to lose. I will continue to support and cheer on the cougars, no matter the result. I will be disappointed in losses, but I will continue to cheer for them. I would rather see them play marquee opponents and win some/lose some than to see them play all cupcakes just to try to get the undefeated season. BYU is getting some great exposure. People want to watch because they put a great, entertaining, tough team out there and play hard. I for one appreciate that.

This just about how I feel about it - graduated in 72. My friend Bill Miller was a wide receiver back then. My high school class president, Ron Tree was a fullback. Neither were star players and BYU did not win many. So,bI too, remember how hard it is to win.



I am a bit spoiled though since that time. I like to see the team finish the team ranked and with 10 or more wins. But no suicidal thoughts if they do not. I like all of the QBs that gave it their best - even if they never sniffed NFL glory, Heisman votes, or NC.

Here are the almighty UNLV's (who only scored 14 against FCS team NAU last week--it was to the point the UNLV coach said the FCS team was bigger and more athletic than the Rebels :bug: ) stats against Wazzou in Vegas last night:



BYU points v. Wazzou: 30

UNLV points v. Wazzou: 27



BYU total yards v. Wazzou: 426 yds

UNLV total yards v. Wazzou: 460 yds



BYU rushing v. Wazzou: 123 yds

UNLV rushing v. Wazzou: 109 yds



BYU passing v. Wazzou: 303 yds

UNLV passing v. Wazzou: 351 yds

snoscythe wrote:
Here are the almighty UNLV's (who only scored 14 against FCS team NAU last week--it was to the point the UNLV coach said the FCS team was bigger and more athletic than the Rebels :bug: ) stats against Wazzou in Vegas last night:



BYU points v. Wazzou: 30

UNLV points v. Wazzou: 27



BYU total yards v. Wazzou: 426 yds

UNLV total yards v. Wazzou: 460 yds



BYU rushing v. Wazzou: 123 yds

UNLV rushing v. Wazzou: 109 yds



BYU passing v. Wazzou: 303 yds

UNLV passing v. Wazzou: 351 yds

And yet



BYU wins Vs UNLV in a game that was not close - 1

UNLV wins vs WSU - 0 in a game that was not as close as the score



Bottom line

BYU took the four off the pedal on both sides of the ball

UNLV was fighting and blowing chance after chance after chance till the end.



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Cougarbib wrote:

Here are the almighty UNLV's (who only scored 14 against FCS team NAU last week--it was to the point the UNLV coach said the FCS team was bigger and more athletic than the Rebels :bug: ) stats against Wazzou in Vegas last night:



BYU points v. Wazzou: 30

UNLV points v. Wazzou: 27



BYU total yards v. Wazzou: 426 yds

UNLV total yards v. Wazzou: 460 yds



BYU rushing v. Wazzou: 123 yds

UNLV rushing v. Wazzou: 109 yds



BYU passing v. Wazzou: 303 yds

UNLV passing v. Wazzou: 351 yds

And yet



BYU wins Vs UNLV in a game that was not close - 1

UNLV wins vs WSU - 0 in a game that was not as close as the score



Bottom line

BYU took the four off the pedal on both sides of the ball

UNLV was fighting and blowing chance after chance after chance till the end.



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UNLV who was pass happy throughout the 2nd half trying to catch up only had 14 fewer yards than BYU who was run-heavy the 2nd half trying to run the clock. That's the worrisome takeaway there.

Wazzu was stacking the box, forcing BYU to beat them with the pass, and they did. Also, BYU may have been run heavy in the second half, but they had shorter fields to work with than UNLV, due to the near pick-6, and the blocked punt. BYU had pretty favorable field position all game.



I'm not saying I'm concerned about our run game, because I am, but I do think they are better today than they were on opening night.



Also, Wazzu's defense was playing much different against UNLV than they did BYU. Against, BYU they played the run, with a 3-4 defense most of the game. Against UNLV, from what I saw most of the time they played 4 linemen to get pressure on the UNLV QB, and played pass first. The secondary was also playing soft zone most of the second half.



All I'm trying to say is that it's hard to compare the two games, because they were played completely different.

snoscythe wrote:
Here are the almighty UNLV's (who only scored 14 against FCS team NAU last week--it was to the point the UNLV coach said the FCS team was bigger and more athletic than the Rebels :bug: ) stats against Wazzou in Vegas last night:



BYU points v. Wazzou: 30

UNLV points v. Wazzou: 27



BYU total yards v. Wazzou: 426 yds

UNLV total yards v. Wazzou: 460 yds



BYU rushing v. Wazzou: 123 yds

UNLV rushing v. Wazzou: 109 yds



BYU passing v. Wazzou: 303 yds

UNLV passing v. Wazzou: 351 yds

concerning, or different opponent, different venue, different approach. WSU is probably not playing with the same confidence they had before BYU and EWU showed them who how weak they (and the rest of the pac12) are.

Ungoy wrote:
Wazzu was stacking the box, forcing BYU to beat them with the pass, and they did. Also, BYU may have been run heavy in the second half, but they had shorter fields to work with than UNLV, due to the near pick-6, and the blocked punt. BYU had pretty favorable field position all game.



I'm not saying I'm concerned about our run game, because I am, but I do think they are better today than they were on opening night.



Also, Wazzu's defense was playing much different against UNLV than they did BYU. Against, BYU they played the run, with a 3-4 defense most of the game. Against UNLV, from what I saw most of the time they played 4 linemen to get pressure on the UNLV QB, and played pass first. The secondary was also playing soft zone most of the second half.



All I'm trying to say is that it's hard to compare the two games, because they were played completely different.

Two games, yes, it's hard to compare. But I gave you three games worth of comparisons, each of which gave good reason to be worried about our offense. I think everyone can now agree that our offense will not allow us to be a top-25 team this year unless we play the WAC and Sunbelt the rest of the way.

snoscythe wrote:

Wazzu was stacking the box, forcing BYU to beat them with the pass, and they did. Also, BYU may have been run heavy in the second half, but they had shorter fields to work with than UNLV, due to the near pick-6, and the blocked punt. BYU had pretty favorable field position all game.



I'm not saying I'm concerned about our run game, because I am, but I do think they are better today than they were on opening night.



Also, Wazzu's defense was playing much different against UNLV than they did BYU. Against, BYU they played the run, with a 3-4 defense most of the game. Against UNLV, from what I saw most of the time they played 4 linemen to get pressure on the UNLV QB, and played pass first. The secondary was also playing soft zone most of the second half.



All I'm trying to say is that it's hard to compare the two games, because they were played completely different.

Two games, yes, it's hard to compare. But I gave you three games worth of comparisons, each of which gave good reason to be worried about our offense. I think everyone can now agree that our offense will not allow us to be a top-25 team this year unless we play the WAC and Sunbelt the rest of the way.

:sulk: Somehow I knew a post like this was coming if BYU lost.

BroncoBot wrote:
:sulk: Somehow I knew a post like this was coming if BYU lost.

Only if they lost because of the offense.

snoscythe wrote:

:sulk: Somehow I knew a post like this was coming if BYU lost.

Only if they lost because of the offense.

Which they did. The defense put them in position to win that game time and time again. They offense only looks good against some of the worst defenses in the nation. Like last year. And the year before that. And the year before that.

northerncougar wrote:
We will be 2-2 in 11 days because Riley is average at his best. We are not good on offense this year. What I have been saying all off season. Utah will win this game and will have a losing record in the Pac12.



8-4 is not a respectable season. 8-4 sucks with this schedule. After watching USU Friday and OSU yesterday, I think 6-6 is more likely this year.



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Nailed it.

SpiffCoug wrote:
Don't heed the warning signs. BYU has been using these first two games to work out the kinks for Saturday.

http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/nailed-it-6.jpg?w=500&h=340" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">

snoscythe wrote:

Don't heed the warning signs. BYU has been using these first two games to work out the kinks for Saturday.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-YZdVDOAPdIQ/T-_13C34mgI/AAAAAAAAFm0/utEM9cuQwZo/s1600/Hanging+Head+in+Shame.jpg" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">

snoscythe wrote:

We will be 2-2 in 11 days because Riley is average at his best. We are not good on offense this year. What I have been saying all off season. Utah will win this game and will have a losing record in the Pac12.



8-4 is not a respectable season. 8-4 sucks with this schedule. After watching USU Friday and OSU yesterday, I think 6-6 is more likely this year.



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Nailed it.

I didn't get a chance to watch USU yesterday, but I did watch Utah and OSU. Utah is a complete disaster, just like we are. OSU is better than I thought they were going to be.



Two things I never, ever thought I would say together:

1) USU is the best team in the state this year, though, I think we can beat them as we have the mental edge on them like Utah does on us. Our D is better than theirs, and their O isn't great. Still not sure about this one.



2) Right now, I'm not sure if BYU or Utah will be bowl eligible at the end of the season. :sick:

northerncougar wrote:
1) USU is the best team in the state this year, though, I think we can beat them as we have the mental edge on them like Utah does on us. Our D is better than theirs, and their O isn't great. Still not sure about this one.



2) Right now, I'm not sure if BYU or Utah will be bowl eligible at the end of the season. :sick:

So if BYU beats Utah State, does that BYU the best team in state?

Warning sign - when there a 8+ pages of comments...

BlueIsBetter wrote:
This is not a hard schedule. The very best teams that BYU is playing against will just barely go bowling. I don't predict more than 8 wins for anyone other than Boise State and *maybe* Notre Dame (because of all the cupcakes they play).



Utah State might get 8 wins beating up on the WAC.



BYU has zero worldbeaters on the schedule. This is not even half the schedule that Max Hall played either his junior or senior year.



The Max Hall cougars would go through this years schedule without a loss. Our offensive identity died, and turned into defensive identity and strength. It is just too bad that the Max Hall cougars didn't have a defense half this good, they would have run the table and probably won a BCS game or two.

Go ahead - list the world beaters that Max Hall faced. And dob't try Florida State. We were heavily favored when they cleaned our crop. Do not give me a watered down Oklahoma team. Further - schedule difficulty is not about having 1 sure loss to a world beater - it is about having a ton of opponents on the road that will be favored.



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List those ND patsies too. 4-0 iirc vs Mich St, Mich, etc.

KingCoug wrote:

Exactly. A lot of fans are not as satisfied with 11 wins as The Bibster is. That is why I keep pointing out th eformula becasue it is usually the very same fans wantnig to play a steady diet of Wisconsin, Texas, Nebraska, Oklahoma, etc. That is not how to get there -because LSU and Alabama do not even get there that way. Nobody does.



The main reason I do not want to see BYU over-schedule is BYU ever mixes its next Jake Heaps mistake with a 2013 schedule - you are going to see 0-12 like UW did with Jake Locker. I do not think the BYU fan base can handle that. So let's not do it.



Or if T. Hill goes 6-6 next year or 5-7 and no bowl game - fans are going to turn on him like there is no tomorrow. I think it is unfair for any team to schedule such that they set their players up for failure.



Go look at Tulsa and their 5 losses last year. That was a very good team. They gave us all we could handle. They were probably better tnan U. And look what U did to us.

As interesting as it looks on paper, the 2013 season may prove your concerns right. Big name opponents are exciting but it will wear off quick if we start losing a lot.



I guess I'm wondering what kind of independent schedule you would want for BYU. Can you give a 12 game example of what you're talking about?

I disagree. People will be okay losing to big name teams as long as we compete. We lost to UT last season and we played an okay game, but I didn't see anyone up in arms about it. But these last 2 games were embarrassing and we lost the games ourselves. There is a big difference there. If we are putting up some points and giving ourselves a chance to win then the fans can accepts losses against a tough schedule.

I'm not sure. Did the words "a very good Tulsa team" just get typed?



Would that be the same Tulsa team that finished the season 8-5?



THe same Tulsa team that had a 99th overall rated defense?



The same Tulsa team that ended up in the "Armed Forces Bowl" along with the miserable Cougs?



VERY good? Hah. They gave us "all we could handle" because RIley Nelson was miserable at quarterback that day, and the much vaunted Michael Alisa disappeared. The defense gave the offense the ball all day, and they essentially just handed it right back to Tulsa without scoring time after time.