All is not well in Provo

Gunk wrote:

Gunk wrote:
We'll lose to ND, win GT, and lose to San Jose. At some point along that stretch, probably in the ND game, Riley will go down with another injury.



The coaches certainly have messed things up. Starting with Bronco and his man-crush on Riley and trust in Doman. I hope Bronco has learned from his mistakes.



Sadly, I think Doman keeps his job. Doman will blame a poor OL and an injured/limited QB on the shortcomings of the offense. Doman will get one more year. If he was smart, though, he'd look for a new job during the offseason because I seriously doubt he'll be able to produce much better next season. Cards are stacked against him. Any failures on his part at this point will trump any measure of success. I'd get out of Provo if I was Doman. Always easier to find a job when you have a job.

We're not going to lose to San Jose State. C'mon.

SJSU hung 27 points on USU, that's 3 TDs more than we were able to muster against USU. Yes, it was Hill's first complete game. But do you think Riley will be healthy come the end of November? We've got no kicking game and 3 TDs seems to be our threshold.



Plus, it's at SJSU. We'll be the "big-time" program coming to SJSU. They'll be up for it after we humiliated them last season and pull out all the stops against us. We'll be limping along and it will be "just another game" to us.



SJSU wins.

If this happens, and I think it is a very distinct possibility, it will be Bronco's first year without a bowl game. Anyone who doesn't think there will be massive uproar isn't paying attention.



I a middle class fan who has season tickets, goes to a bowl game from time to time, spent $70 on blackout gear for Saturday and watches every game. There are a lot of people who are spending a lot more money than I am (a significant amount more) who aren't happy with the direction of this program. BYU won't air their dirty laundry in public, but they aren't happy with what is going on.

a1247 wrote:
Anyone who thinks Bronco and BYU is or would fire Doman must be taking hits off the running Utes "peace" pipe. First off he is only in his second year. Then theres the bigger issue of him being a bishop. Never ever never is BYU going to publicly fire a man who is an active bishop. It just not going to happen so stop talking or even thinking about it.

I don't know... I can see BYU demoting him or giving him a job somewhere else in the athletic department.

northerncougar wrote:
SJSU hung 27 points on USU, that's 3 TDs more than we were able to muster against USU. Yes, it was Hill's first complete game. But do you think Riley will be healthy come the end of November? We've got no kicking game and 3 TDs seems to be our threshold.



Plus, it's at SJSU. We'll be the "big-time" program coming to SJSU. They'll be up for it after we humiliated them last season and pull out all the stops against us. We'll be limping along and it will be "just another game" to us.



SJSU wins.

Say what you want about Bronco losing to the more elite "big name" teams but he virtually never loses to the teams like San Jose State. Even in years those teams are doing well.



BYU wins.

a1247 wrote:
Anyone who thinks Bronco and BYU is or would fire Doman must be taking hits off the running Utes "peace" pipe. First off he is only in his second year. Then theres the bigger issue of him being a bishop. Never ever never is BYU going to publicly fire a man who is an active bishop. It just not going to happen so stop talking or even thinking about it.



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I'm willing to stake everything I'm worth that the idea has already been discussed.



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Dear Santa----





Andy Reid and/or Jabari Parker.... I'm not greedy



or



Brian Billick and Andy Reid and/or Jabari Parker



really I'm not greedy



or



Darrell Bevell and convince Bronco to stick around as DC and/or Jabari Parker (see Santa, you have options)





(honestly, Tom Holmoe needs to be on the phone, to at least take some temperatures)

Thanks again

craigoscarson wrote:
Dear Santa----





Andy Reid and/or Jabari Parker.... I'm not greedy



or



Brian Billick and Andy Reid and/or Jabari Parker



really I'm not greedy



or



Darrell Bevell and convince Bronco to stick around as DC and/or Jabari Parker (see Santa, you have options)









(honestly, Tom Holmoe needs to be on the phone, to at least take some temperatures)

Thanks again

For that list I would even consider stopping being naughty for the year.

craigoscarson wrote:
Dear Santa----





Andy Reid and/or Jabari Parker.... I'm not greedy



or



Brian Billick and Andy Reid and/or Jabari Parker



really I'm not greedy



or



Darrell Bevell and convince Bronco to stick around as DC and/or Jabari Parker (see Santa, you have options)





(honestly, Tom Holmoe needs to be on the phone, to at least take some temperatures)

Thanks again

And while you are at it, can you put another couple dozen more years on Dave roses contract?



Thanks Santa, you're the best!

BYU won't lose to sjsu. of course it is possible but they wont. bronco always beats these teams. we will beat them with whoever is playing quarterback.



if we did not go to a bowl game this year heads will roll. at that point bronco is in serious danger. i think we will make a bowl and weber will be fired with doman as a possibility.



I trust holmoe will make the right decision. I think he has done a great job and am glad he is at the helm.

I watched on the sidelines through my binoculars a three headed offensive monster: Detmer, Chad Lewis, and Reno Mahe, during the third and fourth quarter. They looked disgusted, were shaking their heads, and taking in close proximity. Take it for what it is, but I very much think they know Doman is in over his head. OR at least that this offense is unacceptable.



Things are not good in Provo.



When Bronco had to call the second time out in the second half (with 14 seconds on the play clock', pffff) because the play had not gotten in ON 1st DOWN no less, Dman was ticked at Bronco and Bronc was ticked at Doman. Tey walked right by each other, rapidly and almost knocked each other over. Tension was think.



Throw in three more losses and poor execution on O and you can count on heads rolling--bishop or not (c'mon, that is old ages for tying out loud--rediculous)



THe powers that be, which includes very influential donors are not happy with this offensive scheme. They will either send Doman to school after the season or get somebody else and offer him his QB job. Someone will pay--even if it is a very likable guy.

If anybody goes, it's Webber and Doman. Bronco is the one that will get a pass, if he wants it. But of TH says, find a better offense and Bronco says no, Bronco will be on notice to get it fixed by next year.



I Have another theory about Broncos man-crush that I will share in another post.

But Bronco is sinking this O with his man-crush over a two year period of time and this anemic style.

Gunk wrote:

Gunk wrote:
We'll lose to ND, win GT, and lose to San Jose. At some point along that stretch, probably in the ND game, Riley will go down with another injury.



The coaches certainly have messed things up. Starting with Bronco and his man-crush on Riley and trust in Doman. I hope Bronco has learned from his mistakes.



Sadly, I think Doman keeps his job. Doman will blame a poor OL and an injured/limited QB on the shortcomings of the offense. Doman will get one more year. If he was smart, though, he'd look for a new job during the offseason because I seriously doubt he'll be able to produce much better next season. Cards are stacked against him. Any failures on his part at this point will trump any measure of success. I'd get out of Provo if I was Doman. Always easier to find a job when you have a job.

We're not going to lose to San Jose State. C'mon.

SJSU hung 27 points on USU, that's 3 TDs more than we were able to muster against USU. Yes, it was Hill's first complete game. But do you think Riley will be healthy come the end of November? We've got no kicking game and 3 TDs seems to be our threshold.



Plus, it's at SJSU. We'll be the "big-time" program coming to SJSU. They'll be up for it after we humiliated them last season and pull out all the stops against us. We'll be limping along and it will be "just another game" to us.



SJSU wins.

So let me try to follow this logic since I have difficulty ever following it - your logic.





USU beat Utah who beat BYU with an injured QB on both teams. BYU beat USU with a freshman QB leading the way. USU beat SJSU - therefore, obviously, SJSU will beat BYU led by Jake Kuresa.



A Certainty, for sure.



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I think Doman is being hampered by being forced to play a QB that shouldn't be playing. I think Riley Nelson has been forced upon him for at least 2 years, if not 3.



Every now and then Doman calls a good game. I didn't think Saturday was a poorly called game at all. He just needs to become more consistent. Everything will be better when Riley, or the threat of Riley, is gone.

fifthqb wrote:
Riley Nelson has played his way off of the field. I don't know how, as a coach, you can leave him on the field and still maintain the respect of your entire team. Nothing frustrates players more than the idea that coach has favorites and he plays them.



But let's be honest. Bronco has his favorites and he plays them.



Riley is not a new phenomena, look at the Doman problem we have right now. Why do we have that problem? Because Doman is one of "Bronco's Boys". Riley is just another one of the club.

As Bronco tells the story, when he was DC at UNM and they were playing BYU in 2001 Bronco was so blown away by Doman's competitiveness and grit during the game that he decided then and there if he were ever HC somewhere he wanted Doman on his staff. Thus began the bromance man crush.



I understand how a coach could really value the competitive X factor as something that won't show up on a stat sheet or recruit profile. A coach can make his career on landing recruits with that competitive 'it' X factor that creates winners-- like Doman had as a player. But I think Bronco takes this strategy WAY too far and values grit over talent instead of finding players and/or coaches with BOTH talent and grit. Also, Bronco I think DOES land a lot of talented players with a competitive X factor, but he lets these guys ride the pine in favor of players with more grit and less talent. Bronco just loves the underdog.



Jimmy Mac is the perfect example of the kind of player Bronco needs. Even if he weren't loaded with pure talent McMahon could will his way to victory. He was off-the-charts competitive and 'gritty' I guess you could say. But he was also just an amazing QB with a phenomenal arm. But who knows, maybe Jim wouldn't have been enough of an underdog to be Bronco's guy.

The more I analyze it, the more it's becoming obvious that the call to play Riley isn't Doman's. This post from another board says how I feel in a much better way than I been able to.



http://www.cougarboard.com/board/message.html?id=9405397

craigoscarson wrote:
Dear Santa----



Darrell Bevell and convince Bronco to stick around as DC and/or Jabari Parker (see Santa, you have options)



(honestly, Tom Holmoe needs to be on the phone, to at least take some temperatures)

Thanks again

I know Darrell Bevell has a good thing going in Seattle with Russell Wilson--I assume the only way BYU would ever get him would be to offer him a head coaching position. He's not a BYU guy, so I don't even know if he wants or cares about the job.

stuckinbig10country wrote:
I think Doman is being hampered by being forced to play a QB that shouldn't be playing. I think Riley Nelson has been forced upon him for at least 2 years, if not 3.



Every now and then Doman calls a good game. I didn't think Saturday was a poorly called game at all. He just needs to become more consistent. Everything will be better when Riley, or the threat of Riley, is gone.

I am leaning this way, too. I think Doman was probably excited at first to coach Doman 2.0 until he realized that Nelson has two faults that he (Doman) did not have: Nelson rarely hits his receivers in stride and is reckless with the ball. Whittingham was correct for once in his life when he said that after the final score the most important stat is turnover margain. As good as our D is, we don't create turnovers, so we can't afford to have more than one a game, and the proven trackrecord says that Riley is good for 1+ picks and 2+ fumbles per game. Sometimes we recover the fumbles, sometimes we don't. It must be frustrating to call plays while having to remember that the next turnover or drive-killing recovered fumble will probably happen on this drive or the next one.



Our D is good enough that, except for this weekend, the O does not need to be spectacular for us to win. A quarterback that hands the ball to Williams, consistently hits TE and WR on curls, slants and crossing patterns in the 8-12 yard range, and most importantly does not turn the ball over is all that our D needs. Is Lark that kind of quarterback? Don't know. Is Kuresa? Don't know. Is Nelson? Do know, and the answer is no.



My management philosophy is that it is unethical for me to give my subordinates responsibility for the success of a project and hold them accountable for it, unless I also give them enough supervisory authority to accomplish the task. I don't completely relinquish my position, but there has to be some autonomy for the worker bee. If Doman is going to be held accountable for the success/failure of the offense without the authority to choose his own quarterback, that is a failure by Bronco.

From what I've heard, Doman is getting a lot of heat at the office, and it's filtering down from above Bronco's head.



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snoscythe wrote:
From what I've heard, Doman is getting a lot of heat at the office, and it's filtering down from above Bronco's head.



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And why shouldn't it be. This offense is a bush league, High School offense. Greg Wrubell has made that clear in the sole stats of PPP, Points per play--BYUs is horrible; and Riley's largest contribution, apple turnovers. Nelsons legacy has sunk below Fetericks and is verging on Sean Covey. Rley will be known for his Abs, hair, won out the qb2 over Heaps, turnovers, Broncos pet, injuries, and me pseudo-signature win, a comeback vs USU.

mcgregor wrote:
I'm also anxious to see the Management Guru address team divisiveness that everyone thought would be cured once Jake Heaps left. It appears Mr. Nelson is a polarizing figure no matter who shares his team colors.

This is the paradox of Mendenhall's tenure. He is deeply devoted to organizational behavior study and leadership development...but there is so much evidence that there is dysfunction related to the cultural mores he has established within the team. Bronco wouldn't be the first one to have looked beyond the mark in an exercise like this.



As a side note...I was listening to Gary Anderson on 1280 the zone. He said that under his watch, players understand that the best players will play - be they seniors, freshmen, or walk-ons. That is a pretty stark contrast to the trust philosophy established by Mendenhall...and it is one in which I have a higher degree of confidence.

Everyone needs to be careful what you are wishing for with wanting Doman gone. I assume everyone wants to replace Doman with an experienced offensive coordinator with a proven track record. Guess what, we are not going to find one of those because they are already working for BCS schools who pay them more than we pay Bronco. The only way to get an elite offensive coordinator is to hire them as a head coach. So is there someone out there that would be a better fit as a head coach than Bronco?



Who is the last offensive coordinator we hired who was experienced who wasn't the head coach (this excludes Crowton)? Was Scoville experienced? Was Chow experienced? How far are we already going back?



If we get rid of Doman we are starting the process over of rolling the dice on a young inexperienced offensive coordinator. If we get rid of Doman and Bronco and bring in an experienced offensive coordinator as head coach, guess what, we start the same process with a new young defensive coordinator.



My wish list is replace Weber. Let Doman be more aggressive with his play calling and keep Hall on staff as a GA to work with the QBs. Teach the QBs to run out of bounds and slide when it isn't necessary to get an extra yard.



Doman is inexperienced and still learning how to call a game. But I bet he is handcuffed by how aggressive he can be by Bronco. That is the problem with having your head coach be a defensive guy. It's tough to find any wide open offenses that have a HC that is a DC. Look around the NCAA. The wide open aggressive offenses all have HC that are offensive guys.

KingCoug wrote:

SJSU hung 27 points on USU, that's 3 TDs more than we were able to muster against USU. Yes, it was Hill's first complete game. But do you think Riley will be healthy come the end of November? We've got no kicking game and 3 TDs seems to be our threshold.



Plus, it's at SJSU. We'll be the "big-time" program coming to SJSU. They'll be up for it after we humiliated them last season and pull out all the stops against us. We'll be limping along and it will be "just another game" to us.



SJSU wins.

Say what you want about Bronco losing to the more elite "big name" teams but he virtually never loses to the teams like San Jose State. Even in years those teams are doing well.



BYU wins.

That was Gunk, not me.