Unfortunately

We learned for sure last night that this team isn't good.



Haw's is incredible. He will go down as one of the best to ever play at BYU.



Davies disappears when another big man looks at him funny. 0 rebounds is inexcusable.



Carlino plays great and terrible in the same game. His decision making is still a mess, especially when the game is tight.



The rest of the team is streaky at best.



This team isn't good. :sick:

This team is better now than it was to start the season. It's not a great team. And only episodically good. But, it needs to be good NOW! You are right. We have too many preventable weaknesses on this team starting with Brandon Davies. The Sr who is trying to prep himself for the NBA, is still playing sophomoric and spending too many minutes on the bench.

Cougs_Rule wrote:
This team is better now than it was to start the season. It's not a great team. And only episodically good. But, it needs to be good NOW! You are right. We have too many preventable weaknesses on this team starting with Brandon Davies. The Sr who is trying to prep himself for the NBA, is still playing sophomoric and spending too many minutes on the bench.

I agree that BYU has improved since the beginning of the season, but that isn't saying much given how bad they were to start the season. What I saw last night was a team that played out of control. Even when BYU was up 20-4, SMC just keep playing their game. Good looks, open shots, good defense, chipping away at the lead. Just the opposite of how BYU played. BYU seem to have no identity last night and it killed them.



Davies will never play in the NBA. I know that everyone talks about that, but he would be destroyed in the league.

Hmmm...while I certainly think there's room for improvement I don't think you can cast this team off as not being "good." Even with Jimmer, we barely edged out a 1 pt win against SMC. SMC is a tough, well-coached team.



While I agree we didn't play our best game last night, you can also look at it even with Davies grabbing no boards and stitting on the bench half the night and even with Carlino's bad back and subpar performance in the 2nd half, it took a last second desperation shot for SMC to beat us. That bodes well for us down the stretch. The potential is there.



Davies was doing well offensively. He was making SMC look silly at times. His rebounding was horrible, but you have to give some credit to SMC for pushing him out of the block. Waldow is a beast.



IMO, we got out coached last night. Rose was slow to make adjustments on defense while SMC figured out how to take full advantage of our 2 - 3 zone. Had Rose switched earlier from the 2 - 3, like he did midway through the 2nd half and it likely would have been a different outcome.



People need to stop bagging on Zylstra. I've certainly done my fair share of it, but since WCC paly started he's stepped up his game. Down the stretch he was critical last night. Against SCU on Sat., we would have lost if it weren't for Zylstra. Right now, Zylstra is earning his minutes, averaging 9 pts/game, 2.6 assists, and just 1 turnover.



In WCC play Carlino is averaging roughly 17 pts a game, 5.2 assists/game and just 2 turnover/game. Against SCU he had 8 assists and 0 turnovers while getting manhandled the entire game, hence the bad back this week. Last night he disappeared down the stretch, but what's funny is we complain about no one taking it hard to the rim but then complain when Carlino does just that. :skeptic:



By comparison, in WCC play Dellawhatever is averaging 17 pts a game, 6.2 assists/game and 2.5 turnovers/game. Carlino, in WCC play is right there with Dellawhatever. Carlino is a sophomore.

Gunk wrote:
Hmmm...while I certainly think there's room for improvement I don't think you can cast this team off as not being "good." Even with Jimmer, we barely edged out a 1 pt win against SMC. SMC is a tough, well-coached team.



While I agree we didn't play our best game last night, you can also look at it even with Davies grabbing no boards and stitting on the bench half the night and even with Carlino's bad back and subpar performance in the 2nd half, it took a last second desperation shot for SMC to beat us. That bodes well for us down the stretch. The potential is there.



Davies was doing well offensively. He was making SMC look silly at times. His rebounding was horrible, but you have to give some credit to SMC for pushing him out of the block. Waldow is a beast.



IMO, we got out coached last night. Rose was slow to make adjustments on defense while SMC figured out how to take full advantage of our 2 - 3 zone. Had Rose switched earlier from the 2 - 3, like he did midway through the 2nd half and it likely would have been a different outcome.



People need to stop bagging on Zylstra. I've certainly done my fair share of it, but since WCC paly started he's stepped up his game. Down the stretch he was critical last night. Against SCU on Sat., we would have lost if it weren't for Zylstra. Right now, Zylstra is earning his minutes, averaging 9 pts/game, 2.6 assists, and just 1 turnover.



In WCC play Carlino is averaging roughly 17 pts a game, 5.2 assists/game and just 2 turnover/game. Against SCU he had 8 assists and 0 turnovers while getting manhandled the entire game, hence the bad back this week. Last night he disappeared down the stretch, but what's funny is we complain about no one taking it hard to the rim but then complain when Carlino does just that. :skeptic:



By comparison, in WCC play Dellawhatever is averaging 17 pts a game, 6.2 assists/game and 2.5 turnovers/game. Carlino, in WCC play is right there with Dellawhatever. Carlino is a sophomore.

This team will not make the NCAA tournament. They aren't good. Comparing them to SMC isn't a good comparison. They aren't good either.



BYU isn't terrible, they just aren't good.

I agree with you Gunk. This is a team that has made good progress, which if continued will get us in the tourney. Thanks for the stats on Zylstra. He seems to be the scapegoat for any loss in spite of his production.

I'd like to see some evidence that SMC is a good team this year.

Schmoe wrote:
I'd like to see some evidence that SMC is a good team this year.

What's your definition of "good?" SMC certainly isn't a "bad" team and neither are we. I said SMC is a "tough, well coached" team, which they are.



USU's only loss on the season so far is to SMC. While USU isn't a powerhouse, going 14 - 1 is impressive.



I believe SMC has more top 100 rpi wins than we do, beating USU, Harvard, and LMU.We've beaten just LMU and SCU. St Mary's hasn't played SCU yet.



While our RPI (0.587) ranks slightly better than SMCs (0.572) they aren't that far behind, just 0.015.



Right now, according to teamrankings.com, BYU's RPI is 48th. Top 50. That's not bad.

THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!!!!



If the cougars won last night off Haws great shot would Northerncoug or anyone else be calling this team "not good"..

If we win last night than its a quality win against a quality team.. Some would say it was imperative to us getting into the Ncaa Tour. We can't lose to a good team and then say this team isn't any good. We'd all be talking about making the tourny and GU if we won last night..

What I believe our teams problem this year is this: Quality Depth. Without our scorers on the floor we can't put up good numbers... Our starting lineup is really really good, its just that we can't sustain that level when davies is in foul trouble or Carlino is having a bad night.. Blame it on the off season injuries to Rodgers and whats his name :skeptic: ( can't remember)

If/when we beat St. Mary's or Gonzaga this year i can bet "all will be well in cougar town"

The Cougars are "Good" Only good. They are not great, nor are they championship material, but they are good. Rose is a heck of a coach, and i like them more today than I did yesterday. They CAn beat the Zags in Provo (I didn't beleive that going into last night's game) They CAN beat St. Mary's in Moraga,a nd I'm seriously thinking of going to that game to witness it in person. I like this team, more than I did yesterday. They were tough, and played well enough to win, they got beat by a 1 in a 100 shot.

stgeorgefan wrote:
THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!!!!



If the cougars won last night off Haws great shot would Northerncoug or anyone else be calling this team "not good"..

If we win last night than its a quality win against a quality team.. Some would say it was imperative to us getting into the Ncaa Tour. We can't lose to a good team and then say this team isn't any good. We'd all be talking about making the tourny and GU if we won last night..

What I believe our teams problem this year is this: Quality Depth. Without our scorers on the floor we can't put up good numbers... Our starting lineup is really really good, its just that we can't sustain that level when davies is in foul trouble or Carlino is having a bad night.. Blame it on the off season injuries to Rodgers and whats his name :skeptic: ( can't remember)

If/when we beat St. Mary's or Gonzaga this year i can bet "all will be well in cougar town"

My thoughts exactly. We lost by 1 point on a freak shot to a good team after we had a great win streak. Yet, we are a "bad" team. Give me a break! Yes, we're not a a great team but we are good and we're getting better each weak.

We gave up a huge lead on our home floor, couldn't rebound worth a damn, got in silly foul trouble, had our zone exposed, and lost to a team who has losses to teams like Pacific and Georgia Tech. There are no moral victories to be had after this game, we need to play up to our potential consistently if we want to be a good team.

I love that some of the biggest byu football critics (the same ones who go ballistic after a single score football loss) are always some of the quickest to defend the basketball team.



gets me everytime. I'm not saying the football team is amazing, or that the basketball team is either. they are both nationally respected teams and almost no one will come to provo to play either of them. provo has a good thing going right now in basketball and football.

BroncoBot wrote:
I love that some of the biggest byu football critics (the same ones who go ballistic after a single score football loss) are always some of the quickest to defend the basketball team.



gets me everytime. I'm not saying the football team is amazing, or that the basketball team is either. they are both nationally respected teams and almost no one will come to provo to play either of them. provo has a good thing going right now in basketball and football.

I love that some of the biggest BYU basketball critics (the same ones who go ballistic after a single score basketball loss) are always some of the quickest to defend the football team. A perfect example of that, and not trying to throw him under the buss because he makes some good points, is Schmoe.



No one is saying there is a victory is this loss. This loss sucked and was ugly, especially having after having such a huge lead early. I just don't think the sky is falling after it. This team definitely could be better but they're not bad either.

Cougest wrote:

I love that some of the biggest byu football critics (the same ones who go ballistic after a single score football loss) are always some of the quickest to defend the basketball team.



gets me everytime. I'm not saying the football team is amazing, or that the basketball team is either. they are both nationally respected teams and almost no one will come to provo to play either of them. provo has a good thing going right now in basketball and football.

I love that some of the biggest BYU basketball critics (the same ones who go ballistic after a single score basketball loss) are always some of the quickest to defend the football team. A perfect example of that, and not trying to throw him under the buss because he makes some good points, is Schmoe.

How exactly am I an example of "going ballistic" after a single score basketball loss? Can you show me what I said that was "ballistic" or written "ballistically?"

BroncoBot wrote:
I love that some of the biggest byu football critics (the same ones who go ballistic after a single score football loss) are always some of the quickest to defend the basketball team.



gets me everytime. I'm not saying the football team is amazing, or that the basketball team is either. they are both nationally respected teams and almost no one will come to provo to play either of them. provo has a good thing going right now in basketball and football.

Huh...



What I get a kick out of is how devoid of posters the basketball forum is compared to the football forum even though it's the off season.



Basketball drops a game and there's an up tick in posters in the basketball forum. Basketball wins a game and it's crickets except for the few that are generally following and interested in the team.



I make no effort to cover my bias for basketball. I like the sport better.



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ABYUFAN wrote:
The Cougars are "Good" Only good. They are not great, nor are they championship material, but they are good. Rose is a heck of a coach, and i like them more today than I did yesterday. They CAn beat the Zags in Provo (I didn't beleive that going into last night's game) They CAN beat St. Mary's in Moraga,a nd I'm seriously thinking of going to that game to witness it in person. I like this team, more than I did yesterday. They were tough, and played well enough to win, they got beat by a 1 in a 100 shot.

Moral victory of sorts. Kind of like losing to Top 5 ND on the road by a missed field goal or ranked BSU on the road by a failed 2-point conversion, or losing to our arch rival when a kick clanks off the uprights on the road.



Except this was to an unranked team at home after leading by nearly 20 points and getting beat by a guy playing with 4 fouls.



Where is the uproar.



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Cougarbib wrote:

The Cougars are "Good" Only good. They are not great, nor are they championship material, but they are good. Rose is a heck of a coach, and i like them more today than I did yesterday. They CAn beat the Zags in Provo (I didn't beleive that going into last night's game) They CAN beat St. Mary's in Moraga,a nd I'm seriously thinking of going to that game to witness it in person. I like this team, more than I did yesterday. They were tough, and played well enough to win, they got beat by a 1 in a 100 shot.

Moral victory of sorts. Kind of like losing to Top 5 ND on the road by a missed field goal or ranked BSU on the road by a failed 2-point conversion, or losing to our arch rival when a kick clanks off the uprights on the road.



Except this was to an unranked team at home after leading by nearly 20 points and getting beat by a guy playing with 4 fouls.



Where is the uproar.



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I'm not calling this a moral victory, the loss sucked. But I thought that this team would lose by a ton and not even have a prayer. I was glad after the game to see that this team DOES have a prayer to win against St Mary's and Gonzaga. We lost and it stings, but this team is better than I thought that they were, and I like that.



They are a "good" team, but only that... only good. Good teams make the dance... good teams sometimes get left out of the dance. Good teams win 20 games. Great, spectacular and special teams do more than those things, and we aren't to that level; we're only good. But good teams are fun to watch, and this team was fun to watch on Wednesday. If you didn't like the game (not the ending) then you don't like college basketball.

ABYUFAN wrote:

ABYUFAN wrote:
The Cougars are "Good" Only good. They are not great, nor are they championship material, but they are good. Rose is a heck of a coach, and i like them more today than I did yesterday. They CAn beat the Zags in Provo (I didn't beleive that going into last night's game) They CAN beat St. Mary's in Moraga,a nd I'm seriously thinking of going to that game to witness it in person. I like this team, more than I did yesterday. They were tough, and played well enough to win, they got beat by a 1 in a 100 shot.

Moral victory of sorts. Kind of like losing to Top 5 ND on the road by a missed field goal or ranked BSU on the road by a failed 2-point conversion, or losing to our arch rival when a kick clanks off the uprights on the road.



Except this was to an unranked team at home after leading by nearly 20 points and getting beat by a guy playing with 4 fouls.



Where is the uproar.



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I'm not calling this a moral victory, the loss sucked. But I thought that this team would lose by a ton and not even have a prayer. I was glad after the game to see that this team DOES have a prayer to win against St Mary's and Gonzaga. We lost and it stings, but this team is better than I thought that they were, and I like that.



They are a "good" team, but only that... only good. Good teams make the dance... good teams sometimes get left out of the dance. Good teams win 20 games. Great, spectacular and special teams do more than those things, and we aren't to that level; we're only good. But good teams are fun to watch, and this team was fun to watch on Wednesday. If you didn't like the game (not the ending) then you don't like college basketball.

I am just fine with this team. I am just fine with coach Rose. The football vs basketball double standard just cracks me up.



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Cougarbib wrote:

I am just fine with this team. I am just fine with coach Rose. The football vs basketball double standard just cracks me up.

Basketball hasn't been marred with 3 years of PG controversy. If we don't make the NCAA tourney, it will be the first time in 6 years.



Plus, the illusions of grandeur are much higher among the football team than the basketball team. Perfection is needed in football, so any slip up carries more significance.



BYU is a football first school - the oldest sibling that has to carry the load. Basketball, volleyball and women's soccer are the fun little siblings.