Archived Topic

Hurry and pass gun control before we have time to read it!

by SpiffCoug · 1/18/2013

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C
cornhole153
imuakahuku wrote:
I say go ahead and ban every gun. But only on two conditions. You can guarantee me that no criminal will ever get them either. If you can't that then don't tell me I can't protect my family with a semi-automatic gun of my choosing. A close second stipulation would be that you can guarantee that the government will never become tyrannical to where the people may need to rise up and "reset" it which was the original intent as to why freedom to possess "arms" was the second thing included in the Bill of Rights.


I say let everyone have a semi-automatic weapon. But on just one condition. You can guarantee me that no crazy will ever take one of the guns and shoot a bunch of innocent people...
S
Schmoe
cornhole153 wrote:
I say go ahead and ban every gun. But only on two conditions. You can guarantee me that no criminal will ever get them either. If you can't that then don't tell me I can't protect my family with a semi-automatic gun of my choosing. A close second stipulation would be that you can guarantee that the government will never become tyrannical to where the people may need to rise up and "reset" it which was the original intent as to why freedom to possess "arms" was the second thing included in the Bill of Rights.


I say let everyone have a semi-automatic weapon. But on just one condition. You can guarantee me that no crazy will ever take one of the guns and shoot a bunch of innocent people...


If everyone had one, a crazy would only shoot one person before being shot himself.
I
imuakahuku
cornhole153 wrote:
I say go ahead and ban every gun. But only on two conditions. You can guarantee me that no criminal will ever get them either. If you can't that then don't tell me I can't protect my family with a semi-automatic gun of my choosing. A close second stipulation would be that you can guarantee that the government will never become tyrannical to where the people may need to rise up and "reset" it which was the original intent as to why freedom to possess "arms" was the second thing included in the Bill of Rights.


I say let everyone have a semi-automatic weapon. But on just one condition. You can guarantee me that no crazy will ever take one of the guns and shoot a bunch of innocent people...


No, I say you promise me that no crazy person ever gets a hold of one. Because if they do then another gun is the only thing going to stop them (see Schmoe comment).
B
BroncoBot
Mother protects self, children from THREE intruders with gun that is now banned in New York.



http://cnsnews.com/blog/stephen-gutowski/mother-uses-gun-protect-her-child-armed-intruders" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Great point Imua. When the government can promise that violent crime (not just gun crime) will no longer exist, through civilians or the government, after the banning of guns, then I'd be just fine with turning mine in. No matter what the government tells us, this type of promise will not be fulfilled until the lion and the lamb lie down together.
C
cornhole153
FOUR accidentally shot (including a 2 year old and a 13 year old) in Baton Rouge last month alone.



http://theadvocate.com/news/police/5044392-123/police-man-booked-in-accidental" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Would be interesting to compare how often guns are used to kill attackers verses how often they are used in accidental deaths.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">
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D
Ddawg
cornhole153 wrote:
cornhole153 wrote:
cornhole153 wrote:
So just answer me this--why does the church prohibit guns (except in rare circumstances) on their property (excluding possibly parking lots)?



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">

If you would have used this language in your origonal post, we'd have moved on 8 to 10 pages ago. You keep like this, avoiding hyperbole, and we'll get along just fine


Okay--I had to go back and see my original to see all the hyperbole that's caused such an unnecessary ruckus. Here it is....



"Interesting though that the church has a strict ban on guns (except for on duty officers that are required to carry) on their properties."



I guess I really should have added that bit about parking lots... So funny.




"Strict ban" =/= "prohibit"

""off duty officers" =/= "rare circumstances"


I can't find a single state that requires off duty officers to carry, so I concluded that only on-duty officers would be required to carry. You continue to claim that all off-duty officers are required to carry (to church), without producing a single cite? Yeah, I'm the one using hyperbole.



Guess my original statement, after 8 pages of attacks, remains unblemished.



"Interesting though that the church has a strict ban on guns (except for on duty officers that are required to carry) on their properties."


No - you are wrong. You post that you cannot find a single "state" that requires off-duty L.E. officers to carry concealed weapons off-duty.



This shows how inexperienced and naive you are. It's not the state that requires -it's the individuals police departments that have requirements for their officers to carry. It's called a police force multiplier. By having their off-duty officers carry, they multiply their presence in the community.



Here's the question - show a single state that bans off-duty L.E. officers from carrying concealed weapons. You can't - and they do.



I know you think you have all the answers - you don't. It's part of that liberal disease where you think your the smartest guy in the room. Your not.
S
SpiffCoug
SpiffCoug wrote:
So, back to the original question, and one posed to corn hole: Should a gun control law include exemptions for law enforcement officials?

Cornhole, can I get an answer?



And I still haven't seen anything showing a Church-wide ban on weapons - just a public notification of one for church buildings in one in Utah.
B
BroncoBot
From cornholes article:



"The shooting happened after 2 a.m. at 2645 Main St., Baton Rouge, while a group of people were examining a rifle and it discharged, striking Wilson in the chest, police said. Wilson died at a hospital of a single gunshot wound.



Washington had been carelessly operating the loaded firearm seconds before it discharged, authorities said."



AND



"On Sunday, a 16-year-old boy surrendered to authorities in the Saturday shooting death of 18-year-old Marcus Williams, whom police said was shot in the back while the two were playing with a gun."



AND



"On Jan. 21, police said, Terrance J. Varise, 18, was playing with a .357-caliber handgun that discharged as his 2-year-old brother, Travin Varise, walked into the room, striking the toddler in the chest. Varise, a convicted felon, was booked on counts of negligent homicide and felon in possession of a firearm." ----- This guy broke the LAW, would having more gun control stop crimes like this?????? THINK cornhole.



AND



"On Dec. 29, deputies in Ascension Parish arrested a 14-year-old boy accused of accidentally shooting 13-year-old Christian Crain in the head while playing with a stolen .38 special revolver in the bedroom of a Prairieville trailer. The 14-year-old was booked on counts of negligent homicide, possession of a stolen firearm, possession of marijuana and possession of a handgun by a minor, authorities said."



Every one of these four deaths could have been avoided. But it wouldn't have taken gun control, and I don't think gun control would have stopped these incidents.



Sounds like these guys were being extremely responsible. Accidents happen, people are idiots, you can't protect people that are doing stupid stuff and you certainly don't want to limit constitutional rights because someone was "carelessly operating a loaded firearm". These guys put themselves in a dangerous situation and it killed one of them or killed someone that was close to them. One was already breaking the law by being a felon and possessing a firearm. These teenagers, why are their parents not locking up the guns? I never had access to my dad's handguns, although I could have operated them safely from the time I was 12. I imaging these kids have watched some movies and decided that it was "cool" to handle firearms in a reckless fashion.



The rest of responsible gun owners, aren't putting the lives of others in harms way, so why do responsible citizens need to pay the consequences of these IDIOTS. If you want to hang out with people who are irresponsible with their firearms you should pay for the consequences, and that could mean loss of limb or life. Once again, these irresponsible crimes would not be prevented, nor do they validate stripping Americans of their rights. Man should pay for his own sins, not for the sins of Baton Rouge goons.



THIS from the comment section:

"4) Comment by mh1949 - 01/29/2013

WOW, 4 more guns that jumped up and shot someone. An " ASSAULT WEAPONS & HIGH CAPACITY MAGAZINE " ban would have prevented these shootings . Don't believe me ask an obamacrat. "



In conlcusion--What you're saying is that a mom should not have the right to protect herself and her children because some people in baton rouge play around with guns and kill themselves???
D
Ddawg
An off-duty, 70 yr. old reserve L.E. in Detroit, and a women's basketball coach, shot and killed a would be attacker (wounded the other) while walking 2 girls to their cars.



This is an eye opening story. Just think - a 70 yr. old man protected 2 teenage girls, and himself from 2 bad gang-bangers. One had a gun himself, and had been expelled from school. Does anyone think this 70 yr. old reserve cop could have protected these girls and himself without a concealed firearm? No way. Not a chance. Instead, the headline would have read: "Murder, Robbery and Rape."



FEB. 2, 2013

"ARMED 70-YEAR-OLD WOMEN’S BASKETBALL COACH SHOOTS ATTACKERS WHILE WALKING TWO PLAYERS TO THEIR CARS"



http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/02/02/armed-70-year-old-womens-basketball-coach-shoots-attackers-while-walking-two-players-to-their-cars/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I
imuakahuku
cornhole153 wrote:
FOUR accidentally shot (including a 2 year old and a 13 year old) in Baton Rouge last month alone.



http://theadvocate.com/news/police/5044392-123/police-man-booked-in-accidental" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Would be interesting to compare how often guns are used to kill attackers verses how often they are used in accidental deaths.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">


Your wish is my command. Not hard to find. Heard stats like this last week from another source too.



A widely-known study conducted by Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz in the 1990s found that there were somewhere between 830,000 and 2.45 million U.S. defensive gun uses annually. A National Crime Victimization Study (NCVS) which asked victims if they had used a gun in self-defense found that about 108,000 each year had done so. A big problem with the NCVS line of survey reasoning, however, is that it only includes those uses where a citizen kills a criminal, not when one is only wounded, is held by the intended victim until police arrive, or when brandishing a gun caused a criminal to flee.



http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2012/02/21/disarming-the-myths-promoted-by-the-gun-control-lobby/



Accidental gun deaths per year have been about 850 of which less than 200 are under 18 and that includes accidental police shootings, people mistaking family memebers for an intruder, hunting accident, and so on (this includes all guns not just hand guns).



A little eye opening aint it? 108k killed 803k-2.45million used to protect and in the vast majority of cases the gun is never fired. And there are some experts that think it might even be higher because of all the unreported uses to protect oneself. So do you think of those 2.45 million times, how many murders do you think were thwarted? How many rapes?



My recommendation to you is to go to a gun range and take a safety course and practice and see how it feels. If you don't feel any more responsible after the course and firing the gun then keep up the fight against guns. But I'm willing to bet that you will see what it feels like to posses such a deadly instrument and how vigilant you become while having it and then imagine how you would feel to point it at someone and how much you really really really don't want to ever have to fire it at another human being.
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C
cornhole153
Ddawg wrote:
ABYUFAN wrote:
ABYUFAN wrote:
So just answer me this--why does the church prohibit guns (except in rare circumstances) on their property (excluding possibly parking lots)?



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">

If you would have used this language in your origonal post, we'd have moved on 8 to 10 pages ago. You keep like this, avoiding hyperbole, and we'll get along just fine


Okay--I had to go back and see my original to see all the hyperbole that's caused such an unnecessary ruckus. Here it is....



"Interesting though that the church has a strict ban on guns (except for on duty officers that are required to carry) on their properties."



I guess I really should have added that bit about parking lots... So funny.




"Strict ban" =/= "prohibit"

""off duty officers" =/= "rare circumstances"


I can't find a single state that requires off duty officers to carry, so I concluded that only on-duty officers would be required to carry. You continue to claim that all off-duty officers are required to carry (to church), without producing a single cite? Yeah, I'm the one using hyperbole.



Guess my original statement, after 8 pages of attacks, remains unblemished.



"Interesting though that the church has a strict ban on guns (except for on duty officers that are required to carry) on their properties."


No - you are wrong. You post that you cannot find a single "state" that requires off-duty L.E. officers to carry concealed weapons off-duty.



This shows how inexperienced and naive you are. It's not the state that requires -it's the individuals police departments that have requirements for their officers to carry. It's called a police force multiplier. By having their off-duty officers carry, they multiply their presence in the community.



Here's the question - show a single state that bans off-duty L.E. officers from carrying concealed weapons. You can't - and they do.



I know you think you have all the answers - you don't. It's part of that liberal disease where you think your the smartest guy in the room. Your not.


I probably should have said I couldn't find a single "agency" (rather than "state") that required off duty cops to carry. So what? I may be "inexperienced" and "naive" but you are grasping at straws and my original statement still stands.



All off duty cops can carry under fed law (GW signed). Again so what? It's Church policy that only cops that are REQUIRED to carry, can enter with a gun.
C
cornhole153
imuakahuku wrote:
FOUR accidentally shot (including a 2 year old and a 13 year old) in Baton Rouge last month alone.



http://theadvocate.com/news/police/5044392-123/police-man-booked-in-accidental" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Would be interesting to compare how often guns are used to kill attackers verses how often they are used in accidental deaths.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">


Your wish is my command. Not hard to find. Heard stats like this last week from another source too.



A widely-known study conducted by Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz in the 1990s found that there were somewhere between 830,000 and 2.45 million U.S. defensive gun uses annually. A National Crime Victimization Study (NCVS) which asked victims if they had used a gun in self-defense found that about 108,000 each year had done so. A big problem with the NCVS line of survey reasoning, however, is that it only includes those uses where a citizen kills a criminal, not when one is only wounded, is held by the intended victim until police arrive, or when brandishing a gun caused a criminal to flee.



http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2012/02/21/disarming-the-myths-promoted-by-the-gun-control-lobby/



Accidental gun deaths per year have been about 850 of which less than 200 are under 18 and that includes accidental police shootings, people mistaking family memebers for an intruder, hunting accident, and so on (this includes all guns not just hand guns).



A little eye opening aint it? 108k killed 803k-2.45million used to protect and in the vast majority of cases the gun is never fired. And there are some experts that think it might even be higher because of all the unreported uses to protect oneself. So do you think of those 2.45 million times, how many murders do you think were thwarted? How many rapes?



My recommendation to you is to go to a gun range and take a safety course and practice and see how it feels. If you don't feel any more responsible after the course and firing the gun then keep up the fight against guns. But I'm willing to bet that you will see what it feels like to posses such a deadly instrument and how vigilant you become while having it and then imagine how you would feel to point it at someone and how much you really really really don't want to ever have to fire it at another human being.


"108k killed'? Are you saying that 108K attackers were killed in a single year?
I
imuakahuku
cornhole153 wrote:
cornhole153 wrote:
FOUR accidentally shot (including a 2 year old and a 13 year old) in Baton Rouge last month alone.



http://theadvocate.com/news/police/5044392-123/police-man-booked-in-accidental" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Would be interesting to compare how often guns are used to kill attackers verses how often they are used in accidental deaths.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">


Your wish is my command. Not hard to find. Heard stats like this last week from another source too.



A widely-known study conducted by Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz in the 1990s found that there were somewhere between 830,000 and 2.45 million U.S. defensive gun uses annually. A National Crime Victimization Study (NCVS) which asked victims if they had used a gun in self-defense found that about 108,000 each year had done so. A big problem with the NCVS line of survey reasoning, however, is that it only includes those uses where a citizen kills a criminal, not when one is only wounded, is held by the intended victim until police arrive, or when brandishing a gun caused a criminal to flee.



http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2012/02/21/disarming-the-myths-promoted-by-the-gun-control-lobby/



Accidental gun deaths per year have been about 850 of which less than 200 are under 18 and that includes accidental police shootings, people mistaking family memebers for an intruder, hunting accident, and so on (this includes all guns not just hand guns).



A little eye opening aint it? 108k killed 803k-2.45million used to protect and in the vast majority of cases the gun is never fired. And there are some experts that think it might even be higher because of all the unreported uses to protect oneself. So do you think of those 2.45 million times, how many murders do you think were thwarted? How many rapes?



My recommendation to you is to go to a gun range and take a safety course and practice and see how it feels. If you don't feel any more responsible after the course and firing the gun then keep up the fight against guns. But I'm willing to bet that you will see what it feels like to posses such a deadly instrument and how vigilant you become while having it and then imagine how you would feel to point it at someone and how much you really really really don't want to ever have to fire it at another human being.


"108k killed'? Are you saying that 108K attackers were killed in a single year?


The NCVS said that not me. Take it up with them if you don't believe the numbers.
C
cornhole153
imuakahuku wrote:
imuakahuku wrote:
FOUR accidentally shot (including a 2 year old and a 13 year old) in Baton Rouge last month alone.



http://theadvocate.com/news/police/5044392-123/police-man-booked-in-accidental" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Would be interesting to compare how often guns are used to kill attackers verses how often they are used in accidental deaths.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">


Your wish is my command. Not hard to find. Heard stats like this last week from another source too.



A widely-known study conducted by Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz in the 1990s found that there were somewhere between 830,000 and 2.45 million U.S. defensive gun uses annually. A National Crime Victimization Study (NCVS) which asked victims if they had used a gun in self-defense found that about 108,000 each year had done so. A big problem with the NCVS line of survey reasoning, however, is that it only includes those uses where a citizen kills a criminal, not when one is only wounded, is held by the intended victim until police arrive, or when brandishing a gun caused a criminal to flee.



http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2012/02/21/disarming-the-myths-promoted-by-the-gun-control-lobby/



Accidental gun deaths per year have been about 850 of which less than 200 are under 18 and that includes accidental police shootings, people mistaking family memebers for an intruder, hunting accident, and so on (this includes all guns not just hand guns).



A little eye opening aint it? 108k killed 803k-2.45million used to protect and in the vast majority of cases the gun is never fired. And there are some experts that think it might even be higher because of all the unreported uses to protect oneself. So do you think of those 2.45 million times, how many murders do you think were thwarted? How many rapes?



My recommendation to you is to go to a gun range and take a safety course and practice and see how it feels. If you don't feel any more responsible after the course and firing the gun then keep up the fight against guns. But I'm willing to bet that you will see what it feels like to posses such a deadly instrument and how vigilant you become while having it and then imagine how you would feel to point it at someone and how much you really really really don't want to ever have to fire it at another human being.


"108k killed'? Are you saying that 108K attackers were killed in a single year?


The NCVS said that not me. Take it up with them if you don't believe the numbers.


FBI says there are about 260 justifiable homicides a year. Weird. Not sure where the NCVS is getting the other 107,740...



http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-15" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



So, if the FBI is be believed, a gun owner is more than 3 times more likely to shoot and kill an innocent bystander than an attacker.
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D
Ddawg
Ok mr. cornhole -



Go ahead and give one documented incident where an off-duty L.E. officer was told he could not bring his concealed weapon into an LDS Church in Utah. Good luck. You won't find it.



Also, when police dept.'s require their off-duty officers to carry concealed weapons as a force multiplier - those are internal policies - you won't find those either. You're grasping at straws and trying to save face. I have no idea what point you're trying to make.
S
SpiffCoug
SpiffCoug wrote:
So, back to the original question, and one posed to corn hole: Should a gun control law include exemptions for law enforcement officials?

Cornhole, can I get an answer?



And I still haven't seen anything showing a Church-wide ban on weapons - just a public notification of one for church buildings in one in Utah.

Still waiting.
I
imuakahuku
cornhole153 wrote:
cornhole153 wrote:
cornhole153 wrote:
FOUR accidentally shot (including a 2 year old and a 13 year old) in Baton Rouge last month alone.



http://theadvocate.com/news/police/5044392-123/police-man-booked-in-accidental" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Would be interesting to compare how often guns are used to kill attackers verses how often they are used in accidental deaths.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">


Your wish is my command. Not hard to find. Heard stats like this last week from another source too.



A widely-known study conducted by Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz in the 1990s found that there were somewhere between 830,000 and 2.45 million U.S. defensive gun uses annually. A National Crime Victimization Study (NCVS) which asked victims if they had used a gun in self-defense found that about 108,000 each year had done so. A big problem with the NCVS line of survey reasoning, however, is that it only includes those uses where a citizen kills a criminal, not when one is only wounded, is held by the intended victim until police arrive, or when brandishing a gun caused a criminal to flee.



http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2012/02/21/disarming-the-myths-promoted-by-the-gun-control-lobby/



Accidental gun deaths per year have been about 850 of which less than 200 are under 18 and that includes accidental police shootings, people mistaking family memebers for an intruder, hunting accident, and so on (this includes all guns not just hand guns).



A little eye opening aint it? 108k killed 803k-2.45million used to protect and in the vast majority of cases the gun is never fired. And there are some experts that think it might even be higher because of all the unreported uses to protect oneself. So do you think of those 2.45 million times, how many murders do you think were thwarted? How many rapes?



My recommendation to you is to go to a gun range and take a safety course and practice and see how it feels. If you don't feel any more responsible after the course and firing the gun then keep up the fight against guns. But I'm willing to bet that you will see what it feels like to posses such a deadly instrument and how vigilant you become while having it and then imagine how you would feel to point it at someone and how much you really really really don't want to ever have to fire it at another human being.


"108k killed'? Are you saying that 108K attackers were killed in a single year?


The NCVS said that not me. Take it up with them if you don't believe the numbers.


FBI says there are about 260 justifiable homicides a year. Weird. Not sure where the NCVS is getting the other 107,740...



http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-15" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



So, if the FBI is be believed, a gun owner is more than 3 times more likely to shoot and kill an innocent bystander than an attacker.


A justifiable homicide is defined as a policeman killing a felon. It does not include private citizens killing in self defense. The 270 number is around average for police killings nationwide per year. I guess the devil is in the details.



As for the 100k, I can see that number being much closer to the actual amount than 300. There are almost a million violent crimes reported each year involving hand guns alone.
C
cornhole153
Ddawg wrote:
Ok mr. cornhole -



Go ahead and give one documented incident where an off-duty L.E. officer was told he could not bring his concealed weapon into an LDS Church in Utah. Good luck. You won't find it.



Also, when police dept.'s require their off-duty officers to carry concealed weapons as a force multiplier - those are internal policies - you won't find those either. You're grasping at straws and trying to save face. I have no idea what point you're trying to make.


"Wont find those"? Huh? There are loads of police agency policy manuals on line, and I can't find a single one that requires off-duty carrying. For example, my local (Seattle) department specifically states that it's optional:



"Off-duty sworn personnel may choose whether or not to be armed."



http://www.seattle.gov/police/publications/manual/09_120_Firearms.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Again, here's the Church's official policy... "The carrying of lethal weapons, concealed or otherwise, within their walls is inappropriate except as required by officers of the law"



I don't know how any reasonable person could read these two policies and conclude, as you have, that all LE officers can carry into church?
C
cornhole153
imuakahuku wrote:
imuakahuku wrote:
imuakahuku wrote:
FOUR accidentally shot (including a 2 year old and a 13 year old) in Baton Rouge last month alone.



http://theadvocate.com/news/police/5044392-123/police-man-booked-in-accidental" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Would be interesting to compare how often guns are used to kill attackers verses how often they are used in accidental deaths.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">


Your wish is my command. Not hard to find. Heard stats like this last week from another source too.



A widely-known study conducted by Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz in the 1990s found that there were somewhere between 830,000 and 2.45 million U.S. defensive gun uses annually. A National Crime Victimization Study (NCVS) which asked victims if they had used a gun in self-defense found that about 108,000 each year had done so. A big problem with the NCVS line of survey reasoning, however, is that it only includes those uses where a citizen kills a criminal, not when one is only wounded, is held by the intended victim until police arrive, or when brandishing a gun caused a criminal to flee.



http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2012/02/21/disarming-the-myths-promoted-by-the-gun-control-lobby/



Accidental gun deaths per year have been about 850 of which less than 200 are under 18 and that includes accidental police shootings, people mistaking family memebers for an intruder, hunting accident, and so on (this includes all guns not just hand guns).



A little eye opening aint it? 108k killed 803k-2.45million used to protect and in the vast majority of cases the gun is never fired. And there are some experts that think it might even be higher because of all the unreported uses to protect oneself. So do you think of those 2.45 million times, how many murders do you think were thwarted? How many rapes?



My recommendation to you is to go to a gun range and take a safety course and practice and see how it feels. If you don't feel any more responsible after the course and firing the gun then keep up the fight against guns. But I'm willing to bet that you will see what it feels like to posses such a deadly instrument and how vigilant you become while having it and then imagine how you would feel to point it at someone and how much you really really really don't want to ever have to fire it at another human being.


"108k killed'? Are you saying that 108K attackers were killed in a single year?


The NCVS said that not me. Take it up with them if you don't believe the numbers.


FBI says there are about 260 justifiable homicides a year. Weird. Not sure where the NCVS is getting the other 107,740...



http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-15" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



So, if the FBI is be believed, a gun owner is more than 3 times more likely to shoot and kill an innocent bystander than an attacker.


A justifiable homicide is defined as a policeman killing a felon. It does not include private citizens killing in self defense. The 270 number is around average for police killings nationwide per year. I guess the devil is in the details.



As for the 100k, I can see that number being much closer to the actual amount than 300. There are almost a million violent crimes reported each year involving hand guns alone.


That FBI table is titled "Justifiable Homicide by Weapon, Private Citizen"
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