This BYU team is not an NCAA tourney team

First off, they usually only play about 30 minutes each game. You can count on an awful 10 minutes every game.



Second, they could play better defense, but don't. As a result, they lose to every tourney team they play. D is about effort, and they lack it too often.



Third, hard to win when you have a nucleus of 3 guys who can score consistently, and 2 of them are streaky as can be. And if Haws get taken out of a game, BYU has zero shot to win. Weird watching a Rose team struggle to put the ball in the hoop, but this team does against good team. Not just against great teams, but against good teams.



Fourth, BYU misses Hartsock's mid-range game. They have none this year they can count on.



Basically, this is the worst team Rose has had in a long while. The talent is just not there this year, and next might be worse with absolutely no interior players worth a darn, unless Mika can play at the D1 level.

No, they are not a tourney team this season. Sad thing.



Well, at least we'll probably get some home games in the NIT.

EM_Puma wrote:
No, they are not a tourney team this season. Sad thing.



Well, at least we'll probably get some home games in the NIT.

We might not even be an NIT team--CBI? Maybe.

snoscythe wrote:

No, they are not a tourney team this season. Sad thing.



Well, at least we'll probably get some home games in the NIT.

We might not even be an NIT team--CBI? Maybe.

We have enough drawing power especially at home to be an NIT team... we'll certainly have over 20 wins

I have to agree now sadly.....I think craigocarson said as much to begin the year but I was holding out hope for some reason. We are lacking a consistent scorer/defender at the 4as lawboy indicated. Jordan Loveridge or Dennis Tinnon would be a huge help/upgrade right now. Hey craigocarson you know of any more Dennis Tinnon type players out there in the JC ranks somewhere? We could use one next year. Who knows if Harward will pan out and Austin wants to be Dirk deep down



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I could live with Dirk if that meant we saw 10 points per game instead of watching Davies bungling the ball on doubles or when it guys muscle him.

Lawboy wrote:
First off, they usually only play about 30 minutes each game. You can count on an awful 10 minutes every game.



Second, they could play better defense, but don't. As a result, they lose to every tourney team they play. D is about effort, and they lack it too often.



Third, hard to win when you have a nucleus of 3 guys who can score consistently, and 2 of them are streaky as can be. And if Haws get taken out of a game, BYU has zero shot to win. Weird watching a Rose team struggle to put the ball in the hoop, but this team does against good team. Not just against great teams, but against good teams.



Fourth, BYU misses Hartsock's mid-range game. They have none this year they can count on.



Basically, this is the worst team Rose has had in a long while. The talent is just not there this year, and next might be worse with absolutely no interior players worth a darn, unless Mika can play at the D1 level.

This is correct. I accepted this last week, and it made last nights game easier to stomach. This team isn't good. It just plain isn't. Davies is not an NBA player, nor will he be. Haws is a stud, but when you only have one player on the team, it's pretty easy for good teams to take that one player out.

It's no secret that I don't often, if ever, agree with Northerncougar, but he's absolutely right in this case.

Haws is the only good player on this team. Hard to win with no other options.



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I don't understand how people say Davies isn't a "good" player. Every coach in the WCC disagrees with you. He gets doubled and tripled team by every team. USU lost 2 players to injuries and everyone says there down. We lost Collinsworth, Rogers and Harrison all before the season started. Maybe having them wouldn't help but it couldn't hurt. Yet Dave does not get the same pass. And if this is his worst team in years they are still going to get to 20 something wins! I am not a coach don't claim to know what the problems are but to me this team lacks experience period. The JC guys have not got going yet and they might not until next season. Other than Winder, Austin and Cusick the guys on the bench have not played much until this year and it shows. And we have really only had Winder for 12 or so games. Could this team get hot and win out sure they could. Will they who knows. Bad teams don't win 20 games in a year..... This team is good not great.

Wow...I must have missed the invitation to the piss party. Geez...did any of us actually expect to win last night?



Beginning to think one of the worst things to happen to BYU basketball was Jimmer. Suddenly, unless you're putting up 25+ points a night you're not a "good" player.



I actually feel bad for Carlino at times because of the expectations BYU fans now have for a PG. Five years ago we would have been drooling and so excited to have a PG like Carlino, and as a sophomore he would have gotten a pass for any wrong given the potential upside. Seriously, prior to Carlino and Jimmer name the next best PG we've had? Matt Montegue...please. Nashif, nope. Lemmes, hardly. Ainge, groan. Murdock, even worse. Lyday, maybe.



I wonder if you guys have been watching the same games.



Take this gem:

lawboy wrote:
Third, hard to win when you have a nucleus of 3 guys who can score consistently, and 2 of them are streaky as can be.

Huh...how can you have a nucleus of 3 guys who can score "consistently" but at the same time they are "streaky?"



Haws is averaging 20+ pts a night. Davies is at 17+ a night. Streaky shooting doesn't get you averaging north of 15 a game. Over the last five games, Davies has scored 14, 17, 12, 13 and 19. Pretty consistent. He did put up some big numbers in the beginning of the season, but has been hampered by an ankle injury since starting WCC play. I guess "good" players don't get hurt.



Haws has been consistent as can be until last night. Guess that makes him streaky now...



Carlino has actually been scoring more now than at the beginning of season, but I guess since he's scoring more than he was before that makes him streaky too.

lawboy wrote:
And if Haws get taken out of a game, BYU has zero shot to win.

How soon we forget. Remember back in the day when if Jimmer had a bad game or if a team, you know like UNM or UNLV, limited Jimmer (one guy) we had zero shot to win.

lawboy wrote:
BYU misses Hartsock's mid-range game. They have none this year they can count on.

This one had me chuckling the most. Anyone that's watched Haws play knows he gets the vast majority of his baskets from mid range. It's part of the reson he's such a nightmare for other teams and Haws prides himself on his mid range, old school game.



Or...wait...is it that the team can't "count" on Haws anymore because he's now a "streaky" shooter since he had a bad game last night. I get it, my bad. :roll:



And while we're on the topic of Noah, the first time Noah averaged doubled figures was last season. And Noah at 5 boards a game was hardly a rebounding machine. Sharp is averaging just 1.8 pts/game less than Noah did as a sophomore and 0.5 rebounds/game less than Noah as a sophomore year. Sharp is at 4.6 rebounds a game, 0.4 less than what Noah did last season on the glass. Not bad for a kid that's half Noah's size.

lawboy wrote:
The talent is just not there this year, and next might be worse with absolutely no interior players worth a darn...

The 2010/2011 team was the first season since Trent Plaisted that BYU had a post player averaging more than 10 pts a game. That post player was Davies...not Noah, btw.



BYU still went to the NCAA tournament in 2009 and 2010 without a dominant post player. What! No way! Can't be! Rose found a way to put together a NCAA tourney worthy team without a post presence? :bug: Yes, he did and he can probably do it again.

northerncougar wrote:
Davies is not an NBA player, nor will he be.

In 2008 BYU's dominant post player got drafted. This dominant post player averaged 15.6 pts/game, 7.7 rebounds a game, 1 block a game, 1.5 assists, 2.4 turnovers and shot 54% from the field and 54% from the line. While we all made fun of Plaisted, his DUI driving wife, and his mythical 41" vertical leap we were all fairly certain, excited and cheered him on when he got drafted and went on to represent BYU at the next level. True, it didn't pan out, but before Jimmer, Trent was the last BYU player to get drafted.



Davies was last season's leading scorer in the WCC (not Noah) and is currently averaging 17.8 pts/game, 7.2 rebounds, 2.3 assists, 1.4 steals, 1.2 blocks, 2.8 turnovers, and is shooting 54% from the field, 70% from the line, and 30% from the 3 point line. Davies' post moves are ten times better then Trents' over the shoulder baby hook. Trent had no shot beyond 6 feet from the basket, while Davies rountinely knocks shots down 12 feet out and has even hit some 3s (Trent never even tried a 3 pointer). Plus, Davies has better length, can run the floor as well if not better and actually has a vertical leap.



If Trent got drafted, Davies stands a legit shot.



Excuse the rant, but this forum has gone down the drain. Used to be all sorts of stats, analysis, rumors, etc. were shared on here. Now, people only show up after a loss to whine and complain about a team comprised almost entirely of sophomores. Used to be after a loss you could come here and lick your wounds, consol yourself a bit. Now, it's as if the outcome of 2013 is set as well as 2014. It's basketball people, not football where one loss leaves BYU playing in San Diego. There's still a chance for a NCAA birth.



Oh well, guess BYU basketball has become a victim of it's own success.



I'm out.

We might not be a tourney team this year. Davies isn't good enough to will us wins. To me that is the glaring weakness in this team. He plays a smart, good, physical game and we win most of the teams we play. Davies just hasn't been there against good teams this year.



Now, next years' team with Mika in the mix... and some of the other recruits... that will be something to watch.



I enjoy watching them build up to that. Carlino is a special player, and I like watching him grow into a solid player. I can't wait to watch Carlino/Kcoll/Haws/Mika/Austin(?). That will be a solid lineup.

I think that is the best post I have seen on here this year GUNK!!!!!! Thanks for being realistic!

This team is not an NCAA Tourney team. This could have been and was projected before the first game tipped off. Too young. Too inexperienced. Not enough go to guys. Easy to see without blue goggles. Go look at what. National media projected.



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I am enjoying the season because I never expected much in the first place. Davies is a good player but he is not capable of scoring against good bigs. This is not news. He's a senior after all. After that we have Haws who is a fresh RM. Before the season started nobody even believed he'd put up much more than 10 ppg. So our success is actually surprising to me.



There has been a lot of negativity but, yes, fans on this forum (especially) should be able to accept a rebuild year like men. Look at our recruits coming next year and rejoice.

Gunk wrote:
Wow...I must have missed the invitation to the piss party. Geez...did any of us actually expect to win last night?

Ah, the strawman, well done. Did you expect us to get blown away by the same team that St. Mary's played tight the entire game?



PS-This result is pretty close to what I expected, actually. But the team playing to my expectations doesn't suddenly make them a tournament team.

Schmoe wrote:

Wow...I must have missed the invitation to the piss party. Geez...did any of us actually expect to win last night?

Ah, the strawman, well done. Did you expect us to get blown away by the same team that St. Mary's played tight the entire game?

Ah, the uninformed poster who enjoys bashing other posters with misinformation. St. Mary's played Gonzaga "tight the entire game"? It was 46-28 Gonzaga at the half (BYU was down 40-21 at the half). Gonzaga led St. Mary's by as many as 20 early in the second half before St. Mary's made their run to make the game close (which should surprise nobody who has watched Dellavodova and company). Geez, maybe Few and Gonzaga learned something from that game and were bound and determined that it wasn't going to happen again. Now in your defense, you have made it clear that the football board is your area of "fan expertise" and not the basketball board. Just don't make it so obvious next time ;) . BTW Gunk, excellent post and spot on IMO :) GO COUGARS!

BYU is the third best team in the WCC. St Mary's is better because when they got down big to the Zags, they came all the way back and made it a game at the end. BYU tried to come back and got it to 13 in a few spots. But when your best player (Haws) is AWOL you can't come all the way back.



Haws is still young (although he has played in 50+ games now) and just isn't ready to take over a game on a consistent basis.



BYU is a soft team on the front line. They don't rebound well and they struggle to score on the perimeter. Those two things don't bode well for this season.

Gunk. The ever blinded by his love for blue basketball. BYU is a decent team. They are not as good as recent BYU teams. Much of that is inexperience, but there is a talent drop too. And all of those Timpview and other recruits will contribute. Some big time. Eventually. They, too, lack experience and missions and redshirts and missionary legs factor in. So there are questions re next year too. May be answered. It wil be fun to watch as usual.



Your comparison to Plaisted for Davies was spot on but missed the point. Both were over hyped. Both fell short of fan expections. Both were or will be on the bubble re NFL draft pick number. Both were or likely will be non contributors or marginal NBA contributors. Both were or are good BYU players. No more. No less. Glad they were here.



For the record, both met my expectations. Good but not great.



But - as you so eloquently noted - at great length - BYU rarely gets great players as measured on national criteria - national awards - high draft pick - major NBA contributor.



We are who we are and BYU basketball is fun to follow as is BYU football when your expectations are realistic.



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BYU may still beat SMC and Gonzaga. BYU is still in control of their destiny. I think BYU fan overreaction, generally reserved for the football forum, is spilling over into what is generally a pretty level headed forum. I was hoping for the opposite (level-headedness of basketball forum overcoming the overreaction of football forum).