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Drew: Carlino May Be Headed Out

by snoscythe · 3/1/2013

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mizzoucoug
craigoscarson wrote:
I would bet even money that Drew got a whiff of Carlino or his dads displeasure that he was sitting the bench in the final minutes against the #1 ranked team in the country, and that as competitive people they said or hinted at things they didnt mean.



Competititve peopel get upset when they believe they can and don't get a chance to prove it. Big deal. He'll get many more chances.



There's a good argument to make that the result could have been different if Carlino were in the last 5 minutes, but not only was it senior night, but Matt was not playing great, so who knows?.



Honestly: Nothing to see here... this will blow over. It's not like Matt has competition next year at the PG spot. It's all his and by then he'll be far enough ahead of RM Kyle Collinsworth that no way KC gets starters minutes at PG; particularly because Kyle couldn't hit the side of a barn from the outside prior to his mission; he can't be counted on next season to hit those shots; Matt can be asked to take em.



Much ado about nothing; Matt is not transferring.


Yeah, I'm not sure I saw the hype with KC. He was a horrendous shooter, but at least he tried to go to the hole. His rebounding did win us quite a few games too once Rose used him down there. But as a PG I'm not seeing how he can really help.
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BroncoBot
Yeah, I don't believe that KC would beat out Cusick for pg minutes if he was playing thisyear. but he (KC) is a valuable part of the team next year. I think that Carlino is one of the best pg's that BYU has had in a LONG time. He is a good defender and makes some ridiculous mistakes. He'll learn (hopefully).
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Cougarbib
Gunk wrote:
Cougs_Rule wrote:
Good For Rosé for not allowing a player to defy what he has told him over and over. If Bronco would have done this with Riley, things would have been better for the whole team.

If Carlino can't figure this out, I get why he sat last night and why he's pissed.

Rosé's loyalty to Cusick is almost more of a anti-Carlino. He may not be flashy offensively, but he also won't always just start chucking like Carlino. Cusick did fire an air all and his total prayer of a three that went in was at end of shot clock, iirc.

So, it comes down to the offensive plan. Cusick can't really create on his own and he has to exhaust the big two options of Haws and Davies.

I really hope Carlino stays. But i don't fault Rose for actually being in charge of his program and his players.


Yep. Carlino's been benched before and has come back strong. IIRC he was quoted as saying that his time on the bench lit a fire under him. Even if it doesn't though, Carlino was playing poorly and got benched, the natural order of things for grit-less people.


Playing poorly? Carlino out played Pangos. Calvert completely derailed two come back drives - no one is calling him out.



In 23 min of play, Carlino had 7 points, 4 rebounds, 2 assists and 1 steal. He committed 2 turnovers & 1 foul. Carlino out scored and out rebounded Nate Austin.



Problem with this team is NOT Carlino, although everyone loves to point a finger at him. It's the fact Rose hasn't been able to get or find a legit 2. There should be plenty of 6' 3" Mormon guys that can shoot the ball for Rose to choose from and the best comes up with is Zylstra and Cusick. Rose choice in a lineup is also suspect.



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Luckily - the program is on the rise - right ?



:)



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golong
Your observations have all been on the mark. Carlino is a pretty good athlete, a good ball handler and a pretty good defender, but my goodness, as the point guard he has to be productive--and you have to be able to shoot. His shooting is awful; his long ball is non-existent and then when he drives he just hucks the ball up on shots he shouldn't be taking. If he was "benched" it was because he was playing awful. Carlino was worse against LMU. I've never seen him play so bad, and make so many bad mistakes; he nearly gave the game away with those terrible, hurried passes late in the game when all he had to do was eat up some clock.



BYU opponents know that Haws is the only guy on the team who can beat them, who can shoot the ball. Davies can't shoot, Carlino can't shoot, Zylstra can't shoot, Austin can't shoot, so they mug Haws and dare the others to beat them--which they can't.



We will find out how good of a coach Rose is next year. If I were the coach, I would start by teaching his players how to shoot a free throw, then require everybody on scholarship to shoot 100 free throws everyday until November. Davies FT shooting is awful, and airballs from the FT line? he is a D! player isn't he? Then Kaufusi shoots airballs for FT too. I am embarrassed for them. Anybody can learn to be a good free throw shooter in one year--if they want to. This team's FT fundamentals are atrocious (except for Haws), which tells me that the staff does not teach anybody how to shoot free throws



Then I would sit Carlino down and tell him flat out that if he wants to be BYU's point guard next year he has to make 3s and he has to make better decisions. So require him to also shoot 100 3s every day until fall practice begins.



Any freshman who comes in an exhibits bad basketball skills and cannot at least help the team as a freshman is a bad recruit (Davies, Zylstra, Winder, Austin). Then I would require the guards to go against each other all summer, make them compete and learn to play under pressure.
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Cougarbib
golong wrote:
Your observations have all been on the mark. Carlino is a pretty good athlete, a good ball handler and a pretty good defender, but my goodness, as the point guard he has to be productive--and you have to be able to shoot. His shooting is awful; his long ball is non-existent and then when he drives he just hucks the ball up on shots he shouldn't be taking. If he was "benched" it was because he was playing awful. Carlino was worse against LMU. I've never seen him play so bad, and make so many bad mistakes; he nearly gave the game away with those terrible, hurried passes late in the game when all he had to do was eat up some clock.



BYU opponents know that Haws is the only guy on the team who can beat them, who can shoot the ball. Davies can't shoot, Carlino can't shoot, Zylstra can't shoot, Austin can't shoot, so they mug Haws and dare the others to beat them--which they can't.







We will find out how good of a coach Rose is next year. If I were the coach, I would start by teaching his players how to shoot a free throw, then require everybody on scholarship to shoot 100 free throws everyday until November. Davies FT shooting is awful, and airballs from the FT line? he is a D! player isn't he? Then Kaufusi shoots airballs for FT too. I am embarrassed for them. Anybody can learn to be a good free throw shooter in one year--if they want to. This team's FT fundamentals are atrocious (except for Haws), which tells me that the staff does not teach anybody how to shoot free throws



Then I would sit Carlino down and tell him flat out that if he wants to be BYU's point guard next year he has to make 3s and he has to make better decisions. So require him to also shoot 100 3s every day until fall practice begins.



Any freshman who comes in an exhibits bad basketball skills and cannot at least help the team as a freshman is a bad recruit (Davies, Zylstra, Winder, Austin). Then I would require the guards to go against each other all summer, make them compete and learn to play under pressure.


Now - let me get this straight. Davies, whose absence at the end of Jimmer's senior year cost us a final 4 appearance according to many, was a bad recruit. Really. Just wanted to be sure I got that straight. Seriously.



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Mars
mizzoucoug wrote:
Yeah, I'm not sure I saw the hype with KC.

Little Collinsworth will be the 2nd-best player on the team next year...
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jacksonman
I agreed with almost all of that comment except for Davies being a bad recruit. But it is too bad Davies didn't progress more these last two seasons.



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byucougar1
Davies did not have a comparable front line player to help him out this year compared to last year when he and Harstock combined to make an impressive front line. Austin added to that. This year, there were no weapons on the front line for either offense or defense. Brandon was playing outside of his comfort zone because he was being called upon to do much more - especially on defense as our defending the perimeter was very weak - we missed Charles A. in this regard.



As for Carlino - he struggles to play within himself and his talents. His drives to the basket, when he makes them or dishes them off, set up his outside game as the defense is forced to give him space to take away the dribble drive.



When our big 3 (Haws, Carlino, Davies) all score in double figures, and when others,fill their role, either on defense or offense, we do well.



One final thouight, the second half continues to be our downfall, as we have been outscored in most of all of our last 5 games. This is very disturbing as leads have been whittled down (and we lose close ones or squeak by against lesser teams). Haws also needs to show up in the last couple of minutes and be our go-to scorer and convert on his shots. Lately he disappears and the team looks lost without other options.l



Let's hope Rose corrects some of these challenges and gets them back on track for the WCC tournament with a deep run in our bracket.
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Brayden Green
I've watched Carlino play something around 40 games. His only flaw, and I mean ONLY (not saying he is perfect in all other areas, just no glaring weaknesses) is that he sometimes "heat checks" (which he normally gets pulled for) and the major thing is that he can't finish at the basket.



If he knew how to drive and score off of his drives consistently, everything else he does would be that much more effective. He is one of the guys that the other team game plans against.



Everything else is either not that big of a deal (I will take turnovers *with* assists when being aggressive in a DRose run and gun offense) or a product of his environment (ie, he looks to shoot and be aggressive because *literally* no one else is doing the same, and it is frustrating just holding the ball while everyone stands around because - for some reason BYU is the only basketball team in the nation with 0 set offensive plays.)
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Cougs_Rule
BlueIsBetter wrote:
I've watched Carlino play something around 40 games. His only flaw, and I mean ONLY (not saying he is perfect in all other areas, just no glaring weaknesses) is that he sometimes "heat checks" (which he normally gets pulled for) and the major thing is that he can't finish at the basket.



If he knew how to drive and score off of his drives consistently, everything else he does would be that much more effective. He is one of the guys that the other team game plans against.



Everything else is either not that big of a deal (I will take turnovers *with* assists when being aggressive in a DRose run and gun offense) or a product of his environment (ie, he looks to shoot and be aggressive because *literally* no one else is doing the same, and it is frustrating just holding the ball while everyone stands around because - for some reason BYU is the only basketball team in the nation with 0 set offensive plays.)


Carlino is the best PG we have at this point. But so was Riley this year in football. The challenge is, if Carlino doesn't evolve, just as Riley didn't, and keeps trying to force his drives and quick outside shots (hey, it worked in HS) then he will not meet his potential. I love that he can push and attack, but his high risk offense has to be mitigated. Enter Craig, I-really-shouldn't-be-able-to-play-D1 ball-but-somehow-I-am Cusick. Because he is not aggressive in offense and he can't even begin to consider driving into the paint like MC can, he runs the offense Rose wants, which is to BD and TH. like it or lump it, it's what Rose wants. Jimmer got away with high risk offense bc he could score from the outside and finish at the rim or get fouled and MAKE his free throws. Who knows why MC can score 3s sometimes and most the time not. I wish it were a case of steakiness, but it seems even one step away from that.

But he and Haws could be a potent combo next year. I still think TH needs to play the two. But oh well.
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Mars


Carlino is careless with the ball, even at the end of games in important, high-pressure situations.
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snoscythe
The issue with Carlino is a lack of improvement and a lack of "coachability," not a lack of ability.
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Cougs_Rule
snoscythe wrote:
The issue with Carlino is a lack of improvement and a lack of "coachability," not a lack of ability.


Agreed. He has to evolve and is stuck in the past, trying to force what worked in HS.
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Gunk
Again, the expectations everyone is placing on Carlino are astronomical. He's a sophomore that missed almost half of his freshman year. As a true freshman he started for BYU. Name another freshman of any kind that started point at BYU.



Carlino's ball handling and ball security is better than Jimmer's was as a sophomore; so, I really don't get the complaints on his ball handling unless you're willing to admit Jimmer's ball security wasn't that good. Keep in mind too a senior Jimmer averaged 3.5 turnovers a game and just 4.3 assists/game for a horrific 0.81 A/T ratio. There's some very real concern regarding Jimmer's ability to become a PG in the NBA. Aside from scoring, Jimmer was an average at best PG in college.



Anyone claiming Carlino hasn't improved needs to spend some time with a stat sheet. Here, I'll do it for you since looking up players stats before commenting appears to be a foreign concept to many on this forum.



2013 - 1.7 A/T ratio with 137 assists and 81 turnovers

2012 - 1.5 A/T ratio with 115 assists and 75 turnovers



Carlino's shooting has also improved over the course of the season. Just look at what he was averaging at the beginning of the season and look at what he's doing now. On a points per minute basis, Carlino is just ahead of Pangos. Carlino is ahead of Pangos in rebounds, assists (6th in the league), and steals (3rd in the league).



Last year Carlino wasn't in or near the Top 5 of anything in the WCC. So, either Carlino improved of the entire league really did get worse.



The comparisons of Carlino to Riley are laughable. Carlino still has two years to improve and grow. Riley never lasted an entire season. There was no PG controversy with Rose. No split time of "reps" with PGs and no coup Carlino had to wage to get his spot. No, younger "better" talent in the wings.



Again, you want to point a finger at someone, point it at 2 position. The shooting guards main job is to score and we don't have a 2. Emery wasn't even that good of 2.
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Brayden Green
Matt has each teams' 2nd best defender on him playing man, and is the PG in an offensive system that doesn't often post down low, and doesn't move to the ball.



Seriously, watch BYU just stand around... the half court offense is pathetic.
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Gunk
BlueIsBetter wrote:
Matt has each teams' 2nd best defender on him playing man, and is the PG in an offensive system that doesn't often post down low, and doesn't move to the ball.



Seriously, watch BYU just stand around... the half court offense is pathetic.


People want to know why Winder doesn't get more playing time. It's because Winder stands at the 3 point line and claps for the ball. If he gets it, he drives into the lane and gets a foul if he's lucky.



The lack of movement on the teams' part is frustrating, and I like seeing Carlino yell at guys for not cutting. You never saw Jimmer chew out a teammate for missing a cut. If the players actually moved to the basket and cut, like they should be doing, we'd have all sorts of easy layups.
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Gunk
Mars wrote:
Yeah, I'm not sure I saw the hype with KC.

Little Collinsworth will be the 2nd-best player on the team next year...


LOL!!! I highly doubt it.



First, you're assuming he even gets into game shape in time for the season.



Second, KC had no outside shot to begin with.



Third, KC's ball handling skills were horrific as a freshman; so, assuming they'll be better after having not dribbled the ball for two years is unrealistic. Even Haws' handles are suspect.



Fourth, what position will KC play? Can't play PG cause he can't dribble, pass or shoot. Can't play the 2 because he can't shoot and is too slow to defend it. Won't play the 3 because that's Haws' position, unless Rose decides to move Haws to the 2 (would be smart). And, KC is too small for the 4.



Fifth, I highly doubt KC has the same work ethic and patience as Haws. Haws is the exception, not the rule to RMs getting in basketball shape.
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Mars
Gunk wrote:
Little Collinsworth will be the 2nd-best player on the team next year...
LOL!!! I highly doubt it. KC had no outside shot to begin with. KC's ball handling skills were horrific. Can't play PG cause he can't dribble. Can't play the 2 because he can't shoot and is too slow to defend it. Won't play the 3 because that's Haws' position. I highly doubt KC has the same work ethic and patience as Haws.

All those things are true with Brandon Davies as well, and he's the 2nd-best player on the team this year...
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SpiffCoug
Gunk wrote:
Carlino's ball handling and ball security is better than Jimmer's was as a sophomore; so, I really don't get the complaints on his ball handling unless you're willing to admit Jimmer's ball security wasn't that good. Keep in mind too a senior Jimmer averaged 3.5 turnovers a game and just 4.3 assists/game for a horrific 0.81 A/T ratio.

Your numbers are backwards. That's an A/T ration of 1.16. Still not great and quite a bit worse than his 1.49, 1.59 and 1.69 as a FR, SO and JR. In the NBA he's at 1.65 and 1.40. So his SR year was definitely an anomaly when it comes to his level of ball control.
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Cougs_Rule
Unfair comparisons to Jimmer. When Carlino can score almost at will and make up for the turnovers, like Jimmer did, then he can play high risk. But he only rarely shows up as a scorer. MC seems to be improving, but he has a knack for turning over the ball at the wrong times--and that was my point about comparing him to Riley. Hi risk game that sometimes works and sometimes blows up. And it usually happens through turnovers. If MC can continue to evolve he will be a really solid point guard. Riley didn't and his Sr year, his last game, SJSU, and his last series as a collegiate athlete proved it. Rosé pulled MC in the Zaga game bc of his weaknesses that have not been,, as Sno indicated, sufficiently eradicated.
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