Pathetic

Just glad that the pain that we call the 12-13 season is over. Please let it be over. Don't compound the pain by losing our first game in whatever pathetic tournament we might get an invite.



Those that were paying attention in the beginning of the season knew this team wasn't an NCAA tourney team but we really were awful tonight.



Next year won't be any different. Sigh



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northerncougar wrote:

Next year won't be any different. Sigh



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What? BYU has some of the best high school players ever coming into the program, including one who will be on par with our senior center who got 20 points, 8 boards and 8 rebounds. Next year will be dynamite. :lol:

This year's team just didn't want it. I will be glad that Z will be gone. I'm tired of watching guards and forwards burn him on simple moves. As for Austin, dude it's nice to be that hustle guy but how about an ounce of control in that hustle?



Can anyone tell me how Jimmer and others were able to "get away" from their defenders and TH can't? It seems that teams focus on him and are successful at taking him out whereas Jimmer and Noah still were able to score even 1 on 5 it seemed.



So what do you guys think of the bigs? I had expected a lot more from them with Pope here but the seemed to get worse as the season went along.



Just an awful, awful, season. Way underachieved.

imuakahuku wrote:
This year's team just didn't want it. I will be glad that Z will be gone. I'm tired of watching guards and forwards burn him on simple moves. As for Austin, dude it's nice to be that hustle guy but how about an ounce of control in that hustle?



Can anyone tell me how Jimmer and others were able to "get away" from their defenders and TH can't? It seems that teams focus on him and are successful at taking him out whereas Jimmer and Noah still were able to score even 1 on 5 it seemed.



So what do you guys think of the bigs? I had expected a lot more from them with Pope here but the seemed to get worse as the season went along.



Just an awful, awful, season. Way underachieved.

Agreed. Hoping my comment won't be censored like a Church-sponsored newspaper to which I used to subscribe/post....Coach Rose needs to recruit a LOT more athletic, AA players. Smart but slow white guys (unless you're Izzo or Coach K, it seems) aren't cutting it. Maybe Coach can talk to former Houston mates Olajuwon and Drexler about some brothas....



And what happened to the Eastern European and international players who used to attend? Dreadful WCC conference play, teams playing tenacious D on Haws, and a thin bench doomed this squad. Hope Mika is the real deal next year.

Mika is. He will be an instant upgrade over the non rebounding and non posting Davies.



(Watch Davies' in the first half to know what I am talking about. What a non-effort he gave that half.)

Sounds like someone needs to change their vote in the "Will Mika be better as a Frosh than Davies as a Senior" poll

BlueIsBetter wrote:
Mika is. He will be an instant upgrade over the non rebounding and non posting Davies.



(Watch Davies' in the first half to know what I am talking about. What a non-effort he gave that half.)

Love your enthusiasm and you are crazy if you think Mika will be better as a freshman than Davies was as a senior.



BYU will have two straight years not making the NCAA tournament.

The BYU team I saw play this season had two weapons, Haws and Davies. I like Carlino but every fan of every team in the league knows he's a chukker, the ball can go up from anywhere but he is not a shooter he is a scorer at times. It's hard to win games in a conference when the other teams know if they take away Haws you then have to go inside to Davies for offense.



BYU stood around on defense in last nights game, never flew to the ball and almost seemed disengaged as a team. Most glaring weakness this year is no Hartsock, no team leader on the floor to rally the troops.



Bash Dave Rose if you must but he won't have a hard time getting another job if that happens. He is a good coach but you can only work with what you have and your team this year was short on talent.



Reality is after two seasons it might be starting to sink in that basketball is the premier sport in the WCC and if you don't bring it every night you will lose to any team in the league, as a Zag fan I can say been there done that. Remember this year is the first time the Zags have beaten USF at the WMG in four years.



Don't be discouraged better days are ahead and the bitter taste will be remembered. Your team should come into conference next season with a vengeance and pay back on their mind.



Lastly Zag fans don't hate BYU. The reason Zag fans at the Orleans cheered wildly for USD is Bill Grier and Kyle Bankhead, once a Zag always a Zag.



Heads up Cougs.



Go!! Zags!!!

bigblahla wrote:
The BYU team I saw play this season had two weapons, Haws and Davies. I like Carlino but every fan of every team in the league knows he's a chukker, the ball can go up from anywhere but he is not a shooter he is a scorer at times. It's hard to win games in a conference when the other teams know if they take away Haws you then have to go inside to Davies for offense.



BYU stood around on defense in last nights game, never flew to the ball and almost seemed disengaged as a team. Most glaring weakness this year is no Hartsock, no team leader on the floor to rally the troops.



Bash Dave Rose if you must but he won't have a hard time getting another job if that happens. He is a good coach but you can only work with what you have and your team this year was short on talent.



Reality is after two seasons it might be starting to sink in that basketball is the premier sport in the WCC and if you don't bring it every night you will lose to any team in the league, as a Zag fan I can say been there done that. Remember this year is the first time the Zags have beaten USF at the WMG in four years.



Don't be discouraged better days are ahead and the bitter taste will be remembered. Your team should come into conference next season with a vengeance and pay back on their mind.



Lastly Zag fans don't hate BYU. The reason Zag fans at the Orleans cheered wildly for USD is Bill Grier and Kyle Bankhead, once a Zag always a Zag.



Heads up Cougs.



Go!! Zags!!!

Great post. Agree completely. BYU was completely disengaged and was not fired up except for a few brief seconds after a Davies and-1 bucket. Sad night.



Thanks Zags for showing us how it is done this year. Hope you guys get to the final four. I have a lot of respect for the program you've built.



And you've nailed it on the head on shutting the offense down. Put your best defender on Haws, double Davies, and get back on defense. It's that easy, Even if Davies and Haws get theirs, it's only 40 points. Carlino MIGHT chip in 15 points. Not going to win a lot of games with 55 points.

hawkwing wrote:
Sounds like someone needs to change their vote in the "Will Mika be better as a Frosh than Davies as a Senior" poll

He might not put up better numbers as a Frosh, but he will be better for the team than Davies was this year (hustling every play, rebounding everything near him, boxing out, playing actual big man defense instead of gallavanting around the 3 point line like a moron all game, posting down low EVERY time down the floor... and so on.)



The poll question referred to his statistics, not his impact on the game. I don't think Mika will get the same stats in his first year, but he will be infinitely more valuable to the team. If you can't understand the difference between the two, then I don't what else to tell you.

bigblahla wrote:
Most glaring weakness this year is no Hartsock, no team leader on the floor to rally the troops.

Thats what I forgot to put in my post. This year there was no Jimmer or Noah type leader. Davies didn't do it, Carlino no, Haws would try but just didn't but I think he will be that leader the next two years but for some reason just wasn't this year (didn't want to step on others toes so soon from his mission?) nope, no leader on this team.

BroncoBot wrote:

The BYU team I saw play this season had two weapons, Haws and Davies. I like Carlino but every fan of every team in the league knows he's a chukker, the ball can go up from anywhere but he is not a shooter he is a scorer at times. It's hard to win games in a conference when the other teams know if they take away Haws you then have to go inside to Davies for offense.



BYU stood around on defense in last nights game, never flew to the ball and almost seemed disengaged as a team. Most glaring weakness this year is no Hartsock, no team leader on the floor to rally the troops.



Bash Dave Rose if you must but he won't have a hard time getting another job if that happens. He is a good coach but you can only work with what you have and your team this year was short on talent.



Reality is after two seasons it might be starting to sink in that basketball is the premier sport in the WCC and if you don't bring it every night you will lose to any team in the league, as a Zag fan I can say been there done that. Remember this year is the first time the Zags have beaten USF at the WMG in four years.



Don't be discouraged better days are ahead and the bitter taste will be remembered. Your team should come into conference next season with a vengeance and pay back on their mind.



Lastly Zag fans don't hate BYU. The reason Zag fans at the Orleans cheered wildly for USD is Bill Grier and Kyle Bankhead, once a Zag always a Zag.



Heads up Cougs.



Go!! Zags!!!

Great post. Agree completely. BYU was completely disengaged and was not fired up except for a few brief seconds after a Davies and-1 bucket. Sad night.



Thanks Zags for showing us how it is done this year. Hope you guys get to the final four. I have a lot of respect for the program you've built.



And you've nailed it on the head on shutting the offense down. Put your best defender on Haws, double Davies, and get back on defense. It's that easy, Even if Davies and Haws get theirs, it's only 40 points. Carlino MIGHT chip in 15 points. Not going to win a lot of games with 55 points.

I agree as well. I hope you guys get to the final one by trampling the Dukes, Carolinas etc.



I agree with BlueisBetter, at least I hope Miki brings some toughness under the basket and to the team as a whole. Haws will be better including his leadership. I hope Carlino will learn. I also agree that Hartsock's leadership was more important than his stats.

BlueIsBetter wrote:

Sounds like someone needs to change their vote in the "Will Mika be better as a Frosh than Davies as a Senior" poll

He might not put up better numbers as a Frosh, but he will be better for the team than Davies was this year (hustling every play, rebounding everything near him, boxing out, playing actual big man defense instead of gallavanting around the 3 point line like a moron all game, posting down low EVERY time down the floor... and so on.)



The poll question referred to his statistics, not his impact on the game. I don't think Mika will get the same stats in his first year, but he will be infinitely more valuable to the team. If you can't understand the difference between the two, then I don't what else to tell you.

I agree with this. This is not what you said earlier. I still don't think as a freshman he will have the impact that many think he will, but I like his potential.

It is what I said earlier. I haven't changed my position. He will have an immediate impact and be a better all around player at the center position then Davies ever was on the first day.

This is why I like stats and measurables.

According to stats, Davies was a better player than Hartsock was because he scored more points this year than Noah last year. I wouldn't say that is even close to correct.

I think davies has been better this year overall this year than sr. Hartsock. Hartsock was slow as zylstra. Wasn't the offensive post player that davies is, and seemed tk have 2-3 shots blocked a game. He was equally frustratjng to watch. Both are excellent players.

You might be mis-remembering things. Noah was clutch. He had a shooting touch that was unreal. He was a better defender than Davies, and had quite a bit more blocks too.



Davies is relatively good in the low post, but that won't manifest himself unless he actually makes the effort to go down low. There are times when he doesn't make that effort.

BlueIsBetter wrote:
According to stats, Davies was a better player than Hartsock was because he scored more points this year than Noah last year. I wouldn't say that is even close to correct.

I guess, if you were only willing to look at one column on the stat sheet and wanted that one column, points per game, to be the lone determinant as to who is the better player.



So a better phrasing of your first clause would be, "According to a stat."



And by this one stat you are using, Davies had a humongous 0.8 points per game lead.



Thankfully, there is more than one stat available to us to help us better gauge who is a better player and who better helps their team, especially when comparing to senior leaders of their respective teams.



You know, stats like shooting percentage (Hartsock) three-point percentage (Hartsock), free throw percentage (Hartsock), rebounds (Davies), steals (Davies), turnovers (Hartsock), assists (Davies), true shooting percentage (Hartsock), points available percentage (Hartsock).

Yep, I would take Noah back in a heartbeat over Davies. Noah gives us 3-5 more wins this season.