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Dave Rose *finally* decided to play BYU basketball.

by Brayden Green · 3/20/2013

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Gunk
IowaCougar wrote:
You guys crack me up. You haven't figured out yet that the coach doesn't play the game, the players do. The coach responds to the way the players are playing and to how the other team is playing. Somehow you think that if he just played Carlino all the time and always played man-to-man we'd always score 90 points.



We saw what happened when we tried to play a lot of man-to-man against WCC opponents. It was ugly.



What happened in this game is that Washington allowed us to play BYU basketball, and the team ran with it! Many teams just won't let BYU play the style they would like, and Coach Rose has to adjust.


Players shoot the ball and players play defense, no question. But what defense is played and what overall strategy that is followed is set by the coach. A good coach will react to how his players are playing and how opponents are playing. Like you said.



Yes, UW "let" BYU play their game. But, prior to Tuesday's game we played zone 90% of the time. We played man defense almost entirely in the 2nd half of the game. That's a switch from a week, two weeks ago. Kudos on Rose for that. He didn't stick with the zone that's he's been married to almost the entire season. That switch made a difference.



Regarding Carlino, I don't think anyone on here has said Rose should stick with Carlino. I think we all recognized Rose's smart move in benching Carlino in the 1st half. It let Carlino settle down a bit and Carlino came out on fire in the 2nd. I think pretty much everyone has been saying if Carlino plays next season how he played the 2nd half against UW than good things will come and Carlino should be on the court 90% of the time.
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Cougarbib
Gunk wrote:
You guys crack me up. You haven't figured out yet that the coach doesn't play the game, the players do. The coach responds to the way the players are playing and to how the other team is playing. Somehow you think that if he just played Carlino all the time and always played man-to-man we'd always score 90 points.



We saw what happened when we tried to play a lot of man-to-man against WCC opponents. It was ugly.



What happened in this game is that Washington allowed us to play BYU basketball, and the team ran with it! Many teams just won't let BYU play the style they would like, and Coach Rose has to adjust.


Players shoot the ball and players play defense, no question. But what defense is played and what overall strategy that is followed is set by the coach. A good coach will react to how his players are playing and how opponents are playing. Like you said.



Yes, UW "let" BYU play their game. But, prior to Tuesday's game we played zone 90% of the time. We played man defense almost entirely in the 2nd half of the game. That's a switch from a week, two weeks ago. Kudos on Rose for that. He didn't stick with the zone that's he's been married to almost the entire season. That switch made a difference.



Regarding Carlino, I don't think anyone on here has said Rose should stick with Carlino. I think we all recognized Rose's smart move in benching Carlino in the 1st half. It let Carlino settle down a bit and Carlino came out on fire in the 2nd. I think pretty much everyone has been saying if Carlino plays next season how he played the 2nd half against UW than good things will come and Carlino should be on the court 90% of the time.


I would be interested in BLue is Better response to that. It seems he thinks it was bad coaching inthe first half - not that Carlino needed to sit to get the message. He continually spouts about holding players accountable - unless someone holds one of his pets like Carlino, Jake Heaps, etc., accountable. Then the coach is stupid.



I always suggest listening to what those without a dogin the hunt say. A guest poster on this thread nailed it. Carlino was being Carlino again and Rose had to sit him and get his head straight. That was it. Simply.



The announcers on ESPN commented at length about how poorly Carlino played inthe first half, how Rose must have said somethign to him at half-time, and how much better his judgment was in the 2nd half.



That was it. Simply it.



And then - when the point guard ie QB is clicking, everything else works better. Boats and Oats.
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Brayden Green
Gunk wrote:
You guys crack me up. You haven't figured out yet that the coach doesn't play the game, the players do. The coach responds to the way the players are playing and to how the other team is playing. Somehow you think that if he just played Carlino all the time and always played man-to-man we'd always score 90 points.



We saw what happened when we tried to play a lot of man-to-man against WCC opponents. It was ugly.



What happened in this game is that Washington allowed us to play BYU basketball, and the team ran with it! Many teams just won't let BYU play the style they would like, and Coach Rose has to adjust.


Players shoot the ball and players play defense, no question. But what defense is played and what overall strategy that is followed is set by the coach. A good coach will react to how his players are playing and how opponents are playing. Like you said.



Yes, UW "let" BYU play their game. But, prior to Tuesday's game we played zone 90% of the time. We played man defense almost entirely in the 2nd half of the game. That's a switch from a week, two weeks ago. Kudos on Rose for that. He didn't stick with the zone that's he's been married to almost the entire season. That switch made a difference.



Regarding Carlino, I don't think anyone on here has said Rose should stick with Carlino. I think we all recognized Rose's smart move in benching Carlino in the 1st half. It let Carlino settle down a bit and Carlino came out on fire in the 2nd. I think pretty much everyone has been saying if Carlino plays next season how he played the 2nd half against UW than good things will come and Carlino should be on the court 90% of the time.


UW is a better team than 9 out of the 12 teams in the WCC. That you are sitting here thinking that the craptastic WCC took away our running game is asinine. If BYU could run against UW, it could have ran against almost anyone that we played. I think that the reason that we didn't run was two fold. Number one, the only PG in our offense that can play the run game with any threat is Carlino, and he (rightfully so, sometimes) wasn't always playing because of poor performance or decisions. Also, I think with more of our players in street clothes than gym clothes sitting on the bench, Rose decided that he was going to tire his guys out halfway through the season. I personally think that he always wanted to do a "get out and run" offense, and that he didn't think he had the personnel to do it, so he opted for a grind it out and completely sucktackular zone and half court offense to try and preserve our players through the season, hoping that we could get a couple lucky bounces or shots and sneak into the NCAA tourney.



Whatever it was that got Rose to go back to BYU ball, we need it and I am glad that he did it.



BYU and Carlino didn't look great the second half because they "started playing better" and could now start running. They looked better because they got out and ran. They would have looked this good running in any other game that they played this year. They went away from it, and that was a huge mistake, in my opinion. You don't suddenly go away from the thing that you recruit for year in and year out, in basketball and be successful.
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Gunk
BlueIsBetter wrote:
IowaCougar wrote:
You guys crack me up. You haven't figured out yet that the coach doesn't play the game, the players do. The coach responds to the way the players are playing and to how the other team is playing. Somehow you think that if he just played Carlino all the time and always played man-to-man we'd always score 90 points.



We saw what happened when we tried to play a lot of man-to-man against WCC opponents. It was ugly.



What happened in this game is that Washington allowed us to play BYU basketball, and the team ran with it! Many teams just won't let BYU play the style they would like, and Coach Rose has to adjust.


Players shoot the ball and players play defense, no question. But what defense is played and what overall strategy that is followed is set by the coach. A good coach will react to how his players are playing and how opponents are playing. Like you said.



Yes, UW "let" BYU play their game. But, prior to Tuesday's game we played zone 90% of the time. We played man defense almost entirely in the 2nd half of the game. That's a switch from a week, two weeks ago. Kudos on Rose for that. He didn't stick with the zone that's he's been married to almost the entire season. That switch made a difference.



Regarding Carlino, I don't think anyone on here has said Rose should stick with Carlino. I think we all recognized Rose's smart move in benching Carlino in the 1st half. It let Carlino settle down a bit and Carlino came out on fire in the 2nd. I think pretty much everyone has been saying if Carlino plays next season how he played the 2nd half against UW than good things will come and Carlino should be on the court 90% of the time.


UW is a better team than 9 out of the 12 teams in the WCC. That you are sitting here thinking that the craptastic WCC took away our running game is asinine. If BYU could run against UW, it could have ran against almost anyone that we played. I think that the reason that we didn't run was two fold. Number one, the only PG in our offense that can play the run game with any threat is Carlino, and he (rightfully so, sometimes) wasn't always playing because of poor performance or decisions. Also, I think with more of our players in street clothes than gym clothes sitting on the bench, Rose decided that he was going to tire his guys out halfway through the season. I personally think that he always wanted to do a "get out and run" offense, and that he didn't think he had the personnel to do it, so he opted for a grind it out and completely sucktackular zone and half court offense to try and preserve our players through the season, hoping that we could get a couple lucky bounces or shots and sneak into the NCAA tourney.



Whatever it was that got Rose to go back to BYU ball, we need it and I am glad that he did it.



BYU and Carlino didn't look great the second half because they "started playing better" and could now start running. They looked better because they got out and ran. They would have looked this good running in any other game that they played this year. They went away from it, and that was a huge mistake, in my opinion. You don't suddenly go away from the thing that you recruit for year in and year out, in basketball and be successful.


Blue, I'm not disagreeing with you.



Rose switched to man and sat Cusick almost the entire 2nd half, opting to play the guys that run the floor better. Do I think we should have gone with that strategy more so during WCC play, definitely. It's what our guys do. You don't throw a thoroughbred at the front of a cart. It's made to run.



Northern's idea that we looked better against UW because our guys suddenly decided to play better or simply because UW forgot how to defend isn't completely true.



Carlino didn't learn how to dish out 9 assists during half time. Instead, a game plan was put in place and encouraged that allowed him to dish out 9 assists. I get that.



For the football guys, a perfect example of this would be Alex Smith and Jim Harbaugh. Smith sucked before Harbaugh. Why, not because Smith is a bad QB but because the 49ers had a bad coach that couldn't put in place a system where Smith could thrive. The same phenomenon is what's killing Jimmer's NBA career.
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Brayden Green
I know Gunk, I was agreeing with your reply (in contrast with Iowa)
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byucougar1
IMO our guard and wing play this year was atrocious - whether in zone (slow to rotate) or in man-to-man (slow a foot). When we have proper rotation and cover on defense, and force the other team into shooting contested shots, and rebound, then we can get out and run. In WCC play, we were not consistent in this aspect, rarely did we win the rebounding battle, and our poor defense allowed good 3 point shooting teams a lot of uncontested shots. This coupled with the fact that Carlino oftentimes was a turnover machine, caused us to have a rather mediocre season by BYU standards. Again, when BYU performs the aforementioned keys to the game, they can run and play their uptempo game...kind of hard to run when the other team is rebounding and we are taking the ball out underneath the basket after a made FG.
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Brayden Green
In WCC we played the crappy zone, and Davies didn't box out. We also didn't look to run. It didn't have anything to do with the WCC, who are some of the worst teams statistically in the nation. It had everything to do with BYU pretending to be something it wasn't (a team with any semblance of a half court offense, that could just play ball control, and win with defense).



We are run and gun. You might beat us, but you will have to run for 40 minutes and try to outscore us. We went away from that for the entire year, to our detriment. The second half of UW was EASILY our best half of basketball this year, and that is because we went back to what put us on the map.
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SpiffCoug
For the record, Davies was tied for the best rebounder in WCC play at 7.9 rpg (this was .6 more than Olynyk). He pulled down the 2nd most defensive rebounds in the conference (just 2 behind the leader).



This notion that Davies was a bad rebounder is just false.



Here are Davies rebounding numbers, by game in WCC play: 9, 2 (@ USF), 9, 8, 0 (vs SMC), 7, 6, 11, 12, 11, 10, 9, 4 (@ Portland), 7, 11, 8, 9. I see 2 1/2 bad rebounding games 15 good rebounding games. In the 2 1/2 bad games, BYU won on the @ USF and @ Portland and lost on a buzzer beater vs SMC.



Davies was easily our best rebounder and one of, if not the best, rebounder in the conference.



The problem wasn't Davies' reboudning. It was the rest of the team. He was doing more than his share of rebounding. BYU struggled to get out and run, because as has been mentioned, we played too much zone and tried to play like our opponents. We were a poor zone rebounding team - as a whole. Davies needed more help rebounding from guys like Sharp, Zylstra, Austin, etc.



When he finally went back to the man defense, the team as a whole rebounder better and the running offense got going.
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Brayden Green
And the WCC is known for its really good rebounders... right? If it is known for anything, it is the conference that Gonzaga St Marys and



Our forwards didn't rebound, this is true. Davies didn't box out, especially towards the end of the season. Would you be interested in looking up opponents offensive rebounding numbers versus their averages? I would bet that it would be a lot more. Davies didn't get as many as he could and should have.
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SpiffCoug
Not particularly interested, no. Davies has 9 or more rebounds in 8 of the last 11 games. Any issues BYU had rebounding had more to do with others not rebounding enough. Especially in those games when Davies was picking up stupid fouls early in the games and sat for large first half minutes.
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Mars
BlueIsBetter wrote:
UW is a better team than 9 out of the 12 teams in the WCC.

http://api.ning.com/files/gLCFzIah2QFiW2v492u6y6TMCRdSfjm1xI0EHaAlhZOQMqCGL9V1UZFldQf264U4xl8reiG0E62o8m9zODFJ0fkk5vpcT8LV/arnold_smokingpot.jpg" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">
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Cougs_Rule
Rebounds per game do not equate to player who boxes out. And in fact a player who is boxing out often does not get the rebound. Davies was poor at boxing out. But good for him for leading the conference. Davies had the potential to be a 20/10 guy. But he did not consistently rebound and had stupid fouls which kept him from that.
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SpiffCoug
The fact remains that Davies wasn't the issue in rebounding our boxing out. He was pulling his weight, it was the other front court players. Austin could have helped, but he was to busy falling to the floor. Kafusi could have but he spent his time trying to remember which sport he was playing. Zylstra could have, but he's just not that good. Sharp could have, but he forgot how to play the second half of the year. Harward could have, but that would have required him to be on the court.
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Cougarbib
SpiffCoug wrote:
The fact remains that Davies wasn't the issue in rebounding our boxing out. He was pulling his weight, it was the other front court players. Austin could have helped, but he was to busy falling to the floor. Kafusi could have but he spent his time trying to remember which sport he was playing. Zylstra could have, but he's just not that good. Sharp could have, but he forgot how to play the second half of the year. Harward could have, but that would have required him to be on the court.


Shocking that all of the voters would make such a bum All Conference. 1 2 3 Now someone will say Big deal - WCC. Well - until we win the WCC lets not forget who we are. Davies did not live up to the NBA ready hype - but he was good. Very good.



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Brayden Green
Mars wrote:
UW is a better team than 9 out of the 12 teams in the WCC.

[img]http://api.ning.com/files/gLCFzIah2QFiW2v492u6y6TMCRdSfjm1xI0EHaAlhZOQMqCGL9V1UZFldQf264U4xl8reiG0E62o8m9zODFJ0fkk5vpcT8LV/arnold_smokingpot.jpg




According to the NIT, and pretty much every statistical ranking system out there... The WCC is NOT a good league outside of the top 3 (Zaga, St Mary's, and us).



Their end of season RPI (which memory serves me is a number that you like and bring up) they have an 86. The closest team after BYU in the WCC is in the near 200's.
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Mars
BlueIsBetter wrote:
According to the NIT, and pretty much every statistical ranking system out there... The WCC is NOT a good league outside of the top 3 (Zaga, St Mary's, and us.

You said that Washington was better than 9 WCC teams. Now tell us, how many teams are there in the WCC? Ask Arnold if you need some help remembering...
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Brayden Green
Mars wrote:
According to the NIT, and pretty much every statistical ranking system out there... The WCC is NOT a good league outside of the top 3 (Zaga, St Mary's, and us.

You said that Washington was better than 9 WCC teams. Now tell us, how many teams are there in the WCC? Ask Arnold if you need some help remembering...


They are better than ~ 9 teams. That make it better?



They are better than anyone besides us, Zaga and St Mary's. That leaves, 8? I don't even know how many teams there are in this pathetic conference, although I have seen every game.



It's not even worth looking up... (not saying that against you) just saying that it isn't even worth the 1 minute it would require to look up those bad teams.
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Mars
BlueIsBetter wrote:
They are better than ~ 9 teams. That make it better? I don't even know how many teams there are in this pathetic conference, although I have seen every game. It's not even worth looking up... just saying that it isn't even worth the 1 minute it would require to look up those bad teams.

There are 9 teams in the entire West Coast Conference. But I'm sure that the rest of your opinions are highly valid and worded well.
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Brayden Green
Mars wrote:
They are better than ~ 9 teams. That make it better? I don't even know how many teams there are in this pathetic conference, although I have seen every game. It's not even worth looking up... just saying that it isn't even worth the 1 minute it would require to look up those bad teams.

There are 9 teams in the entire West Coast Conference. But I'm sure that the rest of your opinions are highly valid and worded well.


Thanks, I think. I need to find a cool color to put them in. ;)



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Mars
BlueIsBetter wrote:
There are 9 teams in the entire West Coast Conference. But I'm sure that the rest of your opinions are highly valid and worded well. [/color]


Thanks, I think. I need to find a cool color to put them in. ;)

Might I suggest... brown? :D :lol:
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