Holy Crap ... Really Max Hall?

I figured I'd give one more post before I disappear.



BYU football can be one of 2 things.



1- It is a missionary tool. It is a representation of the church, and it's players are bound to higher expectations and rules of conduct. God and family first, football second. That kind of thing. I'm pretty sure that is how the church thinks it is supposed to be. Even Bronco said he likes firesides better than winning, and most BYU fans I know of loved it.



2- BYU football is just football like every other school in the country.



I have no problem with either of these options ... the problem is ... you can't have both. If you are a program that is representing the church as a missionary tool, you cannot act like all the other football teams in the nation. It doesn't matter how many bad things the other teams say, they are just a football team, they don't propose to support any other purpose than to win football games.



THAT ... is why you hear so many negative comments from Ute fans. We're not perfect, in fact, I think many more of our fans hate BYU than the other way around. The point shouldn't be Utah does it to us so we can do it to them. Utah fans do not claim to be more spiritual, or from the "Lords University". Many are classless. It's what BYU stands for that is supposed to make them rise above what all the other football programs do. If you claim to have a higher purpose, and then act differently, don't be surprised if you get called on it.



Hall, and many of you fans on this board have shown me that you don't think of BYU football in a spiritual light at all. To you it is just football like all other schools. Maybe you should talk with the church leaders about what they think. I think the football program gives more black eye's to the church and furthers animosity than any good that comes from it. Last night your "mormon" quarterback showed that he's no different than any other football player in the nation. How is that good for the church?

Wait, so BYU is definitely NOT the "Lord's University" (according to all things U) but when a BYU player says anything he gets held to a higher standard because it actually IS? Seems a little bassackwards to me.

ttexastim wrote:
I figured I'd give one more post before I disappear.



BYU football can be one of 2 things.



1- It is a missionary tool. It is a representation of the church, and it's players are bound to higher expectations and rules of conduct. God and family first, football second. That kind of thing. I'm pretty sure that is how the church thinks it is supposed to be. Even Bronco said he likes firesides better than winning, and most BYU fans I know of loved it.



2- BYU football is just football like every other school in the country.



I have no problem with either of these options ... the problem is ... you can't have both. If you are a program that is representing the church as a missionary tool, you cannot act like all the other football teams in the nation. It doesn't matter how many bad things the other teams say, they are just a football team, they don't propose to support any other purpose than to win football games.



THAT ... is why you hear so many negative comments from Ute fans. We're not perfect, in fact, I think many more of our fans hate BYU than the other way around. The point shouldn't be Utah does it to us so we can do it to them. Utah fans do not claim to be more spiritual, or from the "Lords University". Many are classless. It's what BYU stands for that is supposed to make them rise above what all the other football programs do. If you claim to have a higher purpose, and then act differently, don't be surprised if you get called on it.



Hall, and many of you fans on this board have shown me that you don't think of BYU football in a spiritual light at all. To you it is just football like all other schools. Maybe you should talk with the church leaders about what they think. I think the football program gives more black eye's to the church and furthers animosity than any good that comes from it. Last night your "mormon" quarterback showed that he's no different than any other football player in the nation. How is that good for the church?

I was not the greatest missionary. I made mistakes on my mission. As an individual there are times when I as a person do not best represent the institutions of which I associate. That does not mean that I can not have #1 and #2. We can be just a football team(#2) but if missionary opportunities arise we can also be a missionary tool(#1). Your biggest error Tim is assuming to be #1 requires complete and absolute perfection by all members of the program. That will not happen and you know it. Like all people in general our football players make mistakes. That does NOT mean that they cannot be a missionary tool. To think it does shows ignorance. Tim, I think you are a reasonable enough person to realize that just like you said our side is not perfect either. Unfortunately you have come to believe the stereotype BYU fan (holier than thou) which are out there, but you have erronously assumed that ALL are like that...and then to post that here...come on Tim do all of us here really seem like the crowd that you just gave your lecture to? Your audience that you address is a small minority...and is NOT here in this forum. I won't call you a "drunk Ute" if you don't call me a "Holier than thou, more spiritual, better than you Zoob" because obviously neither one of us fit that stereotype. ;)

BYUTIME wrote:

Ddawg wrote:
I do recognize there are classy Yewt fans. My Dad & my Grandfather both graduated from the U. They both despise scumbag Yewt fans!!

My Dad (Ute Grad) canceled his season tix to RES two years ago, after getting sick of all the F-Bomb throwing Yewt fans. I loved Max's comments and had a good laugh. It will just keep the rivalry fire burning. BTW, my dad sat next to me tonight at the game.... DECKED IN COUGAR BLUE! 8)

Sorry, but the "Caption" thread was just (if not more)vulgar than the "f" bomb. Not condoning use of the "f" word, just saying you can't have it both ways.

Don't ignore my question - what was your name on cougarblue?

Tim, you're a member right? You were baptized, no? You agree every sunday to "take upon (you) the name of Christ", correct? So you represent the church. Are you perfect? Do you make mistakes, some that might make the church look bad? My guess is yes. We ALL do. Max, made the mistake of painting with too wide a brush. Lets not make the same mistake. ;)

ttexastim wrote:
I figured I'd give one more post before I disappear.



BYU football can be one of 2 things.



1- It is a missionary tool. It is a representation of the church, and it's players are bound to higher expectations and rules of conduct. God and family first, football second. That kind of thing. I'm pretty sure that is how the church thinks it is supposed to be. Even Bronco said he likes firesides better than winning, and most BYU fans I know of loved it.



2- BYU football is just football like every other school in the country.



I have no problem with either of these options ... the problem is ... you can't have both. If you are a program that is representing the church as a missionary tool, you cannot act like all the other football teams in the nation. It doesn't matter how many bad things the other teams say, they are just a football team, they don't propose to support any other purpose than to win football games.



THAT ... is why you hear so many negative comments from Ute fans. We're not perfect, in fact, I think many more of our fans hate BYU than the other way around. The point shouldn't be Utah does it to us so we can do it to them. Utah fans do not claim to be more spiritual, or from the "Lords University". Many are classless. It's what BYU stands for that is supposed to make them rise above what all the other football programs do. If you claim to have a higher purpose, and then act differently, don't be surprised if you get called on it.



Hall, and many of you fans on this board have shown me that you don't think of BYU football in a spiritual light at all. To you it is just football like all other schools. Maybe you should talk with the church leaders about what they think. I think the football program gives more black eye's to the church and furthers animosity than any good that comes from it. Last night your "mormon" quarterback showed that he's no different than any other football player in the nation. How is that good for the church?

Maybe that's my problem - I think the BYU schools cram religion down people's throats a bit too much, and work too hard to make EVERYTHING about religion. We take it too far, I'll be the first to admit that. Maybe THAT'S why I have no problem with Max's words... because I think using football to "spread the gospel" is about as nonsensical as using a stick of soft butter to chop wood.

I think tttexasttim (I can never figure out how many "t"s there are supposed to be) makes a good point in the sense that, the football program has the publicly stated goal to be standard bearers for the university and the Church. While Max's comments might represent many fans' point of view, and other players' private feelings, they aren't things that should be stated by a leader of the team in a press conference.



It's true that individuals make mistakes and should be given some leeway for that (not that I anticipate utes to concede any such thing). However, the price of fame and leadership is that you bear responsibility for your mistakes above all those you represent. I hope for the sake of representing the university well that Max gives some kind of apology or correction this week.



Although it irks me to say so because for the most part I agree with everything he said.

Just to clarify, I was trying to say that it's okay if Max makes a mistake like this. Just that as a leader he is also obligated to apologize afterward (at least correcting the width of his paintbrush).

Sammich wrote:
Just to clarify, I was trying to say that it's okay if Max makes a mistake like this. Just that as a leader he is also obligated to apologize afterward (at least correcting the width of his paintbrush).

That is the ONE and ONLY problem I have with Max's comments. I never like to paint an entire group of people in a negative light. Are there classless Yewt fans, of course. Are there also classy Yewt fans, Maybe. ;) ... J/K of course there are. Unfortunately there are also classless BYU fans, and classy BYU fans. To say that ALL yewt fans are classless is far to broad a saying.

I also think this will be my last post on this topic. Over at Utefans.net they had a clip of Max's comments and underneath the caption of "stay classy Max" - all with a background of hippos in "Y" sweaters. I'm not an English major,but that seems to be the definition of "irony" doesn't it.



Max wasn't profane, he didn't single out anyone, he simply stated that he hated the Utes, something every Utah message board has stated clearly their feelings about him for the last 3 years. Utes, spare me the feigned indignation. :utard:

ttexastim wrote:
A lot of stuff.

I'm calling BS on this one and I think you would too, if you thought about it some more. If you sincerely strive for perfection in anything, you shouldn't be criticized for failing to achieve it. I'd much rather shoot for the stars and miss, than aim for a pile of dog poo and hit.

Ok if your wife had been treated the way his was I would hope that you would have the balls to show some anger and hate towards those who had done it. I know plenty of people that are sick and tired of bronco being so unemotional and politically correct. This was just the complete opposite end of the spectrum. Maybe it was a little over the top but the adrenaline was flowing and he was fired up ...... he may have meant everything he said but i am sure he will regret saying some of it ..... not a lot but some. It was good to hear someone be honest and show some fire ..... I honestly think it can only help our program by showing some people what it means to be truly passionate and play with fire. As far as his poor game ..... I was there and NOBODY WAS OPEN all night!!! He may have missed a pass or two but there db's were all over our recievers like white on rice .... it was ridiculous ! They were amazing .... the fact that he completed anything was amazing to me ...

ttexastim wrote:
You spew that crap AFTER the game and a win?? You just increased a few notches on my d-bag meter.



Does he realize that he just said he hates a few very great members of the church? I'm glad his last game with us had him looking worse at passing then his freshman, only started 4 games, counterpart.



Sorry for the disparaging comments on your board, but seriously ... you put that out there after a win? I guess he's pissed cuz he looked incompetent tonight.

I think he was so frustrated and took a lot of crap during the game that his mouth moved before his brain could stop him. My guess is that there will be an apology issued soon.

I was truly shocked to read Max Hall's comments in the newspaper today. It reminded me of a spoiled child's tantrum. Not only did he defame an entire university based on the alleged acts of a few idiots, but - to add a bit of irony - referred to Utah as "classless" in the middle of possibly the most classless post-game comments I have ever heard of, especially by the winning quarterback. How would the BYU program - and the church - like to be judged solely on the comments of this mannerless lout? Max needs to GROW UP. He may have won the game, but he's an embarassment to his school and his community.

phillycheese wrote:
I was truly shocked to read Max Hall's comments in the newspaper today. It reminded me of a spoiled child's tantrum. Not only did he defame an entire university based on the alleged acts of a few idiots, but - to add a bit of irony - referred to Utah as "classless" in the middle of possibly the most classless post-game comments I have ever heard of, especially by the winning quarterback. How would the BYU program - and the church - like to be judged solely on the comments of this mannerless lout? Max needs to GROW UP. He may have won the game, but he's an embarassment to his school and his community.

I agree. But I do have one question... Pat's or Geno's?

Utes have the ultimate trump card. They don't hold themselves to a high standard of conduct, so they can simply brush off 5 personal fouls in a half as nothing more than "scrappy" play. Meanwhile, they get to call out BYU players for getting angry, cussing, or basically not being the poster-mormon because BYU holds themselves to a high standard. It really is a win-win for the Utes. This is why I'll never support Ute athletics of any variety. Ever.

imuakahuku wrote:

You spew that crap AFTER the game and a win?? You just increased a few notches on my d-bag meter.



Does he realize that he just said he hates a few very great members of the church? I'm glad his last game with us had him looking worse at passing then his freshman, only started 4 games, counterpart.



Sorry for the disparaging comments on your board, but seriously ... you put that out there after a win? I guess he's pissed cuz he looked incompetent tonight.

I think he was so frustrated and took a lot of crap during the game that his mouth moved before his brain could stop him. My guess is that there will be an apology issued soon.

I hope there is NO apology. 8) 8)

phillycheese wrote:
I was truly shocked to read Max Hall's comments in the newspaper today. It reminded me of a spoiled child's tantrum. Not only did he defame an entire university based on the alleged acts of a few idiots

Alleged acts???? You live in "La-La Land." the beer was thrown on his family. He talks to them - face to face!! You're a troll!!! Max defamed no one - he spoke the truth. Deal with it marshmallow troll!!!

CAFB_04-12 wrote:
Utes have the ultimate trump card. They don't hold themselves to a high standard of conduct, so they can simply brush off 5 personal fouls in a half as nothing more than "scrappy" play. Meanwhile, they get to call out BYU players for getting angry, cussing, or basically not being the poster-mormon because BYU holds themselves to a high standard. It really is a win-win for the Utes. This is why I'll never support Ute athletics of any variety. Ever.

A-MEN. We just have to deal with it year after year, while they can get away with murder. However, I'm glad that we at least attempt to hold to a higher standard, even if we fail every once in a while.

Max is right Ute fans take being classless to a whole new level.



yesterday when my wife and kids walked into walmart we were called stupid byu fans by the walmart greeter of all people. yes, the greeter. my wife two weeks ago was harassed by a utah fan in the store and three weeks ago my father in law was driving when he looked over and saw a ute fan (of course it was during there game which they were not watching) who proceeded to take her shake and chuck it all over the windsheild and hood of his car.



Ute fans suck. BYU fans have their bad apples but Ute fans' taking hating to a whole new level. They are losers who are obsessed not with utah but with beating or hating byu.



Max has a right to say that when the ute fans target his family for physical abuse and harrasment. its not just he beer, but the calls to his wife's cell phone.... etc. ute fans ARE classless. so is whit and the players. they are cheaters who will do anything to win. they are cheap and dirty.



i hate utah football and their fans and their players.