Interesting Quitingham quote

Fido wrote:

Fido wrote:

The idea that Ute fans are mostly LDS and just want to beat their rivals is cute and was true back in the 90s and before, if ever. But the vocal part of Utah fans are anti LDS as their yelling profanity during the prayer and chants of 'f* the mormons' clearly shows. Unless all those good LDS fans simple mean 'f the Mormons on our rivals and nothing to do with their religion.'

BS. I live in Ute country (Davis County). There are TONS of Ute fans who are LDS here. Are there ani-Mormon Ute fans? Sure. Are they disrespectful? Sure. But there are plenty of BYU fans who are just as disrespectful to their Ute (or Aggie for that matter) counterparts. BYU fans who act like BYU = LDS Church = righteous people simply make it worse for everyone. And to make comments that Ute fans = anti Mormon is just plain moronic.

Yes there are some bad BYU fans, but what does that have to do Sith the anti-lds Ute fans? Is it an excuse? Oh it's okay to have bigoted fans because BYU has a few fans who think BYU is the LDS church?

By the way what does that even mean? In what way are BYU fans being equally offensive as shouting profanities during prayers?



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If you are going to sit there and say that a majority of ute fans are anti-mormon because there are some that are, then I don't know what to tell you. Maybe do a little pondering on that judgement you are painting thousands of good LDS folks (like my father and 2 of my brothers) with in between your scripture study sessions.

I'm not sure why you think that the fact there are good LDS folks who are Utah fans excuses the behavior of those that are clearly and obviously anti-LDS.



Are there good LDS people who for like Utah? Absolutely. Are there bigotted anti-LDS people who are Utah fans? Yes. And their behavior should not be tolerated by either BYU fans nor the good LDS Ute fans.

Who excused bad Ute fan behavior? I just took issue with this statement from a BYU fan: Most Ute fans only care that "their team" sticks it to the LDS church. I said that is crap and I stand by it. Is you calling Whittingham a "douchbag and an all around terrible human being" the kind of behavior that you are saying we shouldn't tolerate?

If you are Mormon, BYU represents you whether you like it or not.



Outside of Utah, there are no Utes. None. And, if you do find one they are Mormon. Outside of Utah there are millions of Mormons. BYU is the church's school. The reach of the church and BYU far exceeds the reach of the University of Utah.



Go to any place further than two states away from Utah and hardly anyone will have heard of the University of Utah, let alone their football team. You'd be hard pressed to find someone, however, that hasn't heard of BYU and the religion it represents.



The world is a lot bigger place than Utah.



I get LDS Utes cheer for Utah. Why not. My Grandfather was an Aggie and I almost ended up going there myself. What I don't get is the disdain of LDS Utes towards BYU. Their tithing goes towards it just as much as mine does. BYU represents them and the church to the outside world as much as it represents me. I would hope any LDS Ute think of themselves first as LDS, in which case BYU represents you.



Last night I watched the game with a Ute who'd been living CA for the last 9 years. He admitted he hardly ever followed them. He also said he admired how BYU keeps to its morals and represents the church in that way. He's on his way back to Utah (few Utah Mormons can last longer than a few years outside of their bubble) so I suspect he'll become a much more avid Ute.



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Stay classy Cougar faithful! No need to bash KW. We had two weeks to prepare for this game and once again we laid an egg. The blame should be directed at BM and the staff. KW has the right to say whatever he wants. What's that thing we all enjoy In this great country? Right- freedom of speech. Hell, I give him credit for getting his troops ready for the rivalry...something BM has yet to figure out. So say what you want about KW. The fact is, he knows how to beat BM and the Cougars. Enough said!!

nickdutson wrote:

Amen. He punched his ticket for a contract extension with this win and that's what he's gloating about. Most Ute fans only care that "their team" sticks it to the LDS church. His team accomplished that again. He's a happy man right now and should be I guess.

what a stupid comment. Most fans are LDS and I'm sure the fans are happy to stick it to fans like you and your stereotypes.

I would love to see the numbers here. Perhaps the students are LDS but the U has always been the anti-LDS' tool for spitting in the face of the church. If you have a problem with Mormons and live in Utah you are a Ute fan 100% of the time. I would LOVE to see the exception to this rule. Thank the Lord I no longer live in the bubble, but I spent enough years in Utah to master both the culture and the nuances of fandom among the residents.

mizzoucoug wrote:

mizzoucoug wrote:
Amen. He punched his ticket for a contract extension with this win and that's what he's gloating about. Most Ute fans only care that "their team" sticks it to the LDS church. His team accomplished that again. He's a happy man right now and should be I guess.

what a stupid comment. Most fans are LDS and I'm sure the fans are happy to stick it to fans like you and your stereotypes.

I would love to see the numbers here. Perhaps the students are LDS but the U has always been the anti-LDS' tool for spitting in the face of the church. If you have a problem with Mormons and live in Utah you are a Ute fan 100% of the time. I would LOVE to see the exception to this rule. Thank the Lord I no longer live in the bubble, but I spent enough years in Utah to master both the culture and the nuances of fandom among the residents.

How presumptuous of you. Did you spend ANY time in Utah north of point of the mountain? U of U has one of the largest LDS institute programs anywhere. Come to church with me sometime in Davis County. You will see "red" LDS members outnumber "blue" ones probably 4:1. They are better people than some I see representing BYU on the various message boards. People with attitudes like this embarass both the university and the church as it runs counter to the mission of both.

Gunk wrote:
If you are Mormon, BYU represents you whether you like it or not.



Outside of Utah, there are no Utes. None. And, if you do find one they are Mormon. Outside of Utah there are millions of Mormons. BYU is the church's school. The reach of the church and BYU far exceeds the reach of the University of Utah.



Go to any place further than two states away from Utah and hardly anyone will have heard of the University of Utah, let alone their football team. You'd be hard pressed to find someone, however, that hasn't heard of BYU and the religion it represents.



The world is a lot bigger place than Utah.



I get LDS Utes cheer for Utah. Why not. My Grandfather was an Aggie and I almost ended up going there myself. What I don't get is the disdain of LDS Utes towards BYU. Their tithing goes towards it just as much as mine does. BYU represents them and the church to the outside world as much as it represents me. I would hope any LDS Ute think of themselves first as LDS, in which case BYU represents you.[/b]



Last night I watched the game with a Ute who'd been living CA for the last 9 years. He admitted he hardly ever followed them. He also said he admired how BYU keeps to its morals and represents the church in that way. He's on his way back to Utah (few Utah Mormons can last longer than a few years outside of their bubble) so I suspect he'll become a much more avid Ute.



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You live in Utah so the U represents you to the outside world as much as it does anyone else who lives in Utah. So wouldn't you think of yourself as a Utahn, in which case U of U represents you. Doesn't quite fit, does it? I've got LDS fans who are Cougars, Utes, Aggies, Griffins, etc. Even one guy in my ward who loves the Fighting Irish and couldn't care less about Utah/BYU football. If you are not an alum or have ties to BYU why would you discard your fandom of your alma mater because BYU is a private church school?

birdie702 wrote:
Stay classy Cougar faithful! No need to bash KW. We had two weeks to prepare for this game and once again we laid an egg. The blame should be directed at BM and the staff. KW has the right to say whatever he wants. What's that thing we all enjoy In this great country? Right- freedom of speech. Hell, I give him credit for getting his troops ready for the rivalry...something BM has yet to figure out. So say what you want about KW. The fact is, he knows how to beat BM and the Cougars. Enough said!!

I don't get why so many want to find a scapegoat after this loss. KW and the utes won, can't we just be classy enough to support the coaches, our team/players and give credit to the utes?

People can stick their head in the sand all they want but the Ute fan base has increasingly grown non-Mormon over the past 10-20 years. And that's to be expected. Non-Mormons in the state are obviously going to root for Utah. As will the Jack Mormons and Ex-Mormons. I'd be willing to bet those groups, combined, far outnumber the active Mormons in the Ute fan base now.



But it's the active LDS Ute fans who continually live in denial and attempt to call the U the "School of the Prophets" with a straight face. Many of them are the ones who jumped all over Collie when he made his "magic" comment but have minimized the ongoing pattern of behavior among their fellow Ute fans or the team involving everything from sacrament jello shots and anti-Mormon signs in the MUSS, to anti-Mormon comments in the stands and this latest incident involving the hot tub baptism. Everyone knows there is a strong liberal, anti-Mormon element up at the U. And the U - while much like BYU decades ago - has grown further and further away from that in more recent times. There's a reason why the U fit so well into the liberal, secular, anti-religious PAC-12 conference.



But all this has been and will continued to be minimized by LDS Ute fans because they don't want to have to justify or rethink where their team loyalties lie. They don't want to consider the fallacy of rooting against the school that is synonymous with their Church in the eyes of most people. And even some BYU fans, including in this thread, buy into this nonsense for whatever reason. They're probably just in denial.

So are you going to call President Monson and tell him that he is in denial and should "consider the fallacy of rooting against the school that is synonymous with their Church in the eyes of most people"?



Do you guys really listen to yourselves when you post this? Not much "Christian" behavior or conduct going on here. Just lots of condemnation and judgement on groups of people. If you just look for reasons to be offended or reasons to condemn groups of people you will surely find it.

Fido wrote:
So are you going to call President Monson and tell him that he is in denial and should "consider the fallacy of rooting against the school that is synonymous with their Church in the eyes of most people"?

Uh, by most accounts, President Monson is a BYU fan. He had the entire team sign a banner for him a few years ago and people have seen him decked out in BYU gear before.

Do you guys really listen to yourselves when you post this? Not much "Christian" behavior or conduct going on here. Just lots of condemnation and judgement on groups of people. If you just look for reasons to be offended or reasons to condemn groups of people you will surely find it.

And this is the typical response. People like you attempt to change the subject, by pointing the finger back at us, rather than even acknowledging what we're saying about the conflicting loyalties of LDS Ute fans.

KingCoug wrote:

So are you going to call President Monson and tell him that he is in denial and should "consider the fallacy of rooting against the school that is synonymous with their Church in the eyes of most people"?

Uh, by most accounts, President Monson is a BYU fan. He had the entire team sign a banner for him a few years ago and people have seen him decked out in BYU gear before.

Do you guys really listen to yourselves when you post this? Not much "Christian" behavior or conduct going on here. Just lots of condemnation and judgement on groups of people. If you just look for reasons to be offended or reasons to condemn groups of people you will surely find it.

And this is the typical response. People like you attempt to change the subject, by pointing the finger back at us, rather than even acknowledging what we're saying about the conflicting loyalties of LDS Ute fans.

I don't think there is any conflicting loyalties for LDS Ute fans. I'm not making the faulty connection that you are that Utah = anti-Mormon.



And for your listening pleasure:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83Hdb-23cts



http://www.lds.org/church/leader/thomas-s-monson" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

...

Born in Salt Lake City, on August 21, 1927, President Monson is a son of G. Spencer and Gladys Condie Monson. He attended Salt Lake City public schools and graduated cum laude from the University of Utah in 1948, receiving a degree in business management. He did graduate work and served as a member of the College of Business faculty at the University of Utah. He later received his MBA degree from Brigham Young University. In April 1981, Brigham Young University conferred upon President Monson the degree of Doctor of Laws, honoris causa.

...

I've personally seen President Monson at Utah basketball games when I'd attend with my father (he is a Utah grad) though we haven't gone to any in the past several years. I would think based on this that President Monson doesn't have any hangups about being a fan of both schools since he has ties to both. Sorry to rock your testimony. :roll:

Fido wrote:

I don't think there is any conflicting loyalties for LDS Ute fans. I'm not making the faulty connection that you are that Utah = anti-Mormon.

That's because you choose to stick your head in the sand. You can't handle the truth so you pretend it doesn't exist.

And for your listening pleasure:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83Hdb-23cts



http://www.lds.org/church/leader/thomas-s-monson" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Born in Salt Lake City, on August 21, 1927, President Monson is a son of G. Spencer and Gladys Condie Monson. He attended Salt Lake City public schools and graduated cum laude from the University of Utah in 1948, receiving a degree in business management. He did graduate work and served as a member of the College of Business faculty at the University of Utah. He later received his MBA degree from Brigham Young University. In April 1981, Brigham Young University conferred upon President Monson the degree of Doctor of Laws, honoris causa.



I've personally seen President Monson at Utah basketball games when I'd attend with my father (he is a Utah grad) though we haven't gone to any in the past several years. I would think based on this that President Monson doesn't have any hangups about being a fan of both schools since he has ties to both. Sorry to rock your testimony. :roll:

The U of U that President Monson and other Church leaders went to is not the same U of U that exists today. That you can't see that fact shows you're willfully ignorant.

I looked it up, I think of the last seven or eight to be called to the 12 none have attended Utah. I don't think anyone who's been called since the mid-90s has attended the U. And I don't see that changing anytime soon.

birdie702 wrote:
KW has the right to say whatever he wants. What's that thing we all enjoy In this great country? Right- freedom of speech.

I'm not sure that I get this, KW has a freedom of speech, but we don't? Yes he has every right to say moronic things, and we have every right to point out that what he is saying is moronic.

Is it too late to call this thread back from the realm of stupidity?



KWhitt was pointing out fact. A fact that should put Bronco in a lot of trouble. The best news of the last few years' for Bronco is that this rivalry is going away for two years. It just might save him his job (if he can get us to 8 wins this season. I don't think that his job is salvageable with less than an 8 win season at this point.)

BlueIsBetter wrote:
Is it too late to call this thread back from the realm of stupidity?



KWhitt was pointing out fact. A fact that should put Bronco in a lot of trouble. The best news of the last few years' for Bronco is that this rivalry is going away for two years. It just might save him his job (if he can get us to 8 wins this season. I don't think that his job is salvageable with less than an 8 win season at this point.)

The point of this thread was that quitingham's so-called "fact" is a stupid fact. It's an unimpeachable man rule - one cannot claim any points by not being defeated by a team that that person refused to play. If he had a man card he would have had to turn it in. That was the point of the thread.

ABYUFAN wrote:

Is it too late to call this thread back from the realm of stupidity?



KWhitt was pointing out fact. A fact that should put Bronco in a lot of trouble. The best news of the last few years' for Bronco is that this rivalry is going away for two years. It just might save him his job (if he can get us to 8 wins this season. I don't think that his job is salvageable with less than an 8 win season at this point.)

The point of this thread was that quitingham's so-called "fact" is a stupid fact. It's an unimpeachable man rule - one cannot claim any points by not being defeated by a team that that person refused to play. If he had a man card he would have had to turn it in. That was the point of the thread.

Amen. THe fact that Kryle pointed out that the JRs and Sophs wouldn't lose to BYU highlights not only the "impeachable man", aka, the un-fire-able coach (if he fails to make a bowl again) but it just smacks of how dependent his definition of success is on beating BYU.

AND, quite frankly, why he will continue to dominate Bronco. Kryle acts as though it is the worst thing in the world to lose to BYU and his underclassmen don't have to face such ignominy. Oh, it was a FACT that meant something--it meant a whole lot and more!

ABYUFAN wrote:

Is it too late to call this thread back from the realm of stupidity?



KWhitt was pointing out fact. A fact that should put Bronco in a lot of trouble. The best news of the last few years' for Bronco is that this rivalry is going away for two years. It just might save him his job (if he can get us to 8 wins this season. I don't think that his job is salvageable with less than an 8 win season at this point.)

The point of this thread was that quitingham's so-called "fact" is a stupid fact. It's an unimpeachable man rule - one cannot claim any points by not being defeated by a team that that person refused to play. If he had a man card he would have had to turn it in. That was the point of the thread.

Oh for sure. And it's a good point. I wasn't saying anything in my post about it or you, ABYU.



I was commenting in reference to the "if you're an ex-member and active LDS" blah blah blah, and hoping to steer the thread back to your OP, away from all the mish-mash.

Full disclosure I am Utah fan first and a BYU fan second and will be forever and always.



Guys, for heaven's sake this is just a football game. To get up in arms about a quote by a member of the church over him being proud of a win and how his seniors went 4-0 against the Y and how his juniors and sophs have gone 3-0 and 2-0 respectively. Why shouldn't he be pleased with that? Besides, if the roles had been reversed you would be proclaiming the greatness of Mendenhall right now and how we should be proud of the undefeatedness of the Sophs, juniors, and seniors. This entire topic is sad.



Second, I don't and never will get why some of the Y fan base dares to question my or any other LDS-Ute fans loyalty to the church. It is absolute and total B.S. Seriously, there is no argument that can be made that would make that claim a cogent argument. BYU football is not and never will be the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. BYU football is only relevant to the mission of the church in that the church's name is associated with it. That is all. My faith resides in the Jesus Christ as Savior and redeemer, Joseph Smith as the first prophet of the Restoration, and President Monson as the current one. Football is meaningless to that faith. And yes I get after Utah fans that disparage the church just as vehemently as I go after you people. It is not right and they generally are silenced right then and there.



The gross vitriol that spews from a vast minority of each fan base is disgusting. And this questioning of faith is among the worst of it!