This years starters??

craigoscarson wrote:

A few things I enjoyed learning last night:



1. Halford might to be a genuine threat from outside. He was impressive in the 3-point shootout.



2. Bartley has serious hops. His dunk while leaping over Mika was fun to watch.



3. Mika is pronounced mee-ka, not Mike-a as I had assumed. When you live this far from Utah, you don't hear the name pronounced. :blush:



4. Jennifer Hamson can dunk! I hope to see her do it in a game this year.

Positives.. the team likes each others and had fun



Halford can shoot (however the lighting in the field house didn't help them.. wasn't made for hoops.. but for TV)



Mika and Worthington are confident



Negatives

KC still has mission legs, had no chance on the dunks he was trying



They all looked out of shape and tired after a relatively small work load



Austin had the yips.. I have watched and listened to him in a few interviews recently. It appears that the guy has some issues with performance anxiety; hopefully that fades because we need him early. (He was a beast in the NIT)



None of our returness look like they've put on any muscle. Sharp looks no different.





My take very premature take home... we're going to miss Davies a lot more than people realize.

Haws is going to get really tired carrying the load offensively. I really, really hope that we can find some sets that will get use some good shots in the paint.

craigoscarson wrote:

A few things I enjoyed learning last night:



1. Halford might to be a genuine threat from outside. He was impressive in the 3-point shootout.



2. Bartley has serious hops. His dunk while leaping over Mika was fun to watch.



3. Mika is pronounced mee-ka, not Mike-a as I had assumed. When you live this far from Utah, you don't hear the name pronounced. :blush:



4. Jennifer Hamson can dunk! I hope to see her do it in a game this year.

Positives.. the team likes each others and had fun



Halford can shoot (however the lighting in the field house didn't help them.. wasn't made for hoops.. but for TV)



Mika and Worthington are confident



Negatives

KC still has mission legs, had no chance on the dunks he was trying



They all looked out of shape and tired after a relatively small work load



Austin had the yips.. I have watched and listened to him in a few interviews recently. It appears that the guy has some issues with performance anxiety; hopefully that fades because we need him early. (He was a beast in the NIT)



None of our returness look like they've put on any muscle. Sharp looks no different.





My take very premature take home... we're going to miss Davies a lot more than people realize.

A little in their defense, they supposedly had one of their more rigorous practices just a couple hours before this event. And it kinda looked like it in the way they played.

craigoscarson wrote:
Austin had the yips.. I have watched and listened to him in a few interviews recently. It appears that the guy has some issues with performance anxiety; hopefully that fades because we need him early. (He was a beast in the NIT).

I can see that. Austin played very loose and well his freshman year (no expectations).



During the NIT when both he and Davies were on the court, he played loose. He benefits from another big body in the post. I sincerely hope Rose starts the 5 best players and goes from there - that would put Austin and Mika on the court as the same time.

Gunk wrote:

Austin had the yips.. I have watched and listened to him in a few interviews recently. It appears that the guy has some issues with performance anxiety; hopefully that fades because we need him early. (He was a beast in the NIT).

I can see that. Austin played very loose and well his freshman year (no expectations).



During the NIT when both he and Davies were on the court, he played loose. He benefits from another big body in the post. I sincerely hope Rose starts the 5 best players and goes from there - that would put Austin and Mika on the court as the same time.

I'm not so sure that by mid season Austin will be among the best five. He probably gets played by Rose regardless, but Luke W has a swagger-absence of yips--that will land him decent PT right next to Mika. And the look of worry on Nate's face during Boom night, portends something. I really think these young guys/newcomers are going to take over the front court by midseason.

IowaCougar wrote:
A few things I enjoyed learning last night:



1. Halford might to be a genuine threat from outside. He was impressive in the 3-point shootout.



2. Bartley has serious hops. His dunk while leaping over Mika was fun to watch.



3. Mika is pronounced mee-ka, not Mike-a as I had assumed. When you live this far from Utah, you don't hear the name pronounced. :blush:



4. Jennifer Hamson can dunk! I hope to see her do it in a game this year.

If she does, I'm pretty sure that she will be the first NCAA woman to do so. That would be sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeet! I've wondered sinse she came if it would happen. Sure would like to see it. I think her confidence level will be higher this year than aver before, so she'll be more likely to make the move.

I think it has been done in a womans game. Just not at BYU or most schools for that matter.

bigbluepuma wrote:

A few things I enjoyed learning last night:



1. Halford might to be a genuine threat from outside. He was impressive in the 3-point shootout.



2. Bartley has serious hops. His dunk while leaping over Mika was fun to watch.



3. Mika is pronounced mee-ka, not Mike-a as I had assumed. When you live this far from Utah, you don't hear the name pronounced. :blush:



4. Jennifer Hamson can dunk! I hope to see her do it in a game this year.

If she does, I'm pretty sure that she will be the first NCAA woman to do so. That would be sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeet! I've wondered sinse she came if it would happen. Sure would like to see it. I think her confidence level will be higher this year than aver before, so she'll be more likely to make the move.

Britney Griner dunked several times as did Candace Parker. So she would be the first white girl to do so.

beauso79 wrote:
I think I'd like to see these starters at the beginning of the season:



1 - Carlino/Winder/Kyle/Halford

2 - Halford/Winder/Bartley

3 - Haws/Sharp/Kyle

4 - Kyle Collinsworth/Worthington/Sharp

5 - Mika/Austin/Worthington

Early on it looks like I got Halford and Winder switched but I have a feeling Kyle is going to see quite a bit of time at the 4 this year. Mika and Worthington will be foul prone thus needing Kyle more to cover for them. The starters may also have been due to the team we were playing last night as well but I thought Winder looked really good and gives us a great defender at the 2. If we have to go big I did like what I saw when Mika and Worthington were on the floor together. At times it seemed like the team did better on the floor with Worthington than Mika. It looks like Kyle will play some point as well



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Specifically, when Worthington, Austin, and Kyle. But when Worthington was five (I think) and Mika the four (help side) I liked that. Kind of like how Noah Hartsock made Davies a much better post defender.

I like Kyle bringing Tthe ball down so Carlino can come off a screen of set for a shot. Although MC did hit a three off the dribble last night. He has struggled with that historically.

Cougs_Rule wrote:
Specifically, when Worthington, Austin, and Kyle. But when Worthington was five (I think) and Mika the four (help side) I liked that. Kind of like how Noah Hartsock made Davies a much better post defender.

I like Kyle bringing Tthe ball down so Carlino can come off a screen of set for a shot. Although MC did hit a three off the dribble last night. He has struggled with that historically.

The problem then is neither Worthington nor Mika can make a jumper or face up and drive. So your spacing is shot. That is why I think Austin can be so valuable.

Qman wrote:

IowaCougar wrote:
A few things I enjoyed learning last night:



1. Halford might to be a genuine threat from outside. He was impressive in the 3-point shootout.



2. Bartley has serious hops. His dunk while leaping over Mika was fun to watch.



3. Mika is pronounced mee-ka, not Mike-a as I had assumed. When you live this far from Utah, you don't hear the name pronounced. :blush:



4. Jennifer Hamson can dunk! I hope to see her do it in a game this year.

If she does, I'm pretty sure that she will be the first NCAA woman to do so. That would be sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeet! I've wondered sinse she came if it would happen. Sure would like to see it. I think her confidence level will be higher this year than aver before, so she'll be more likely to make the move.

Britney Griner dunked several times as did Candace Parker. So she would be the first white girl to do so.

Caution: A little blaspheming language

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVIvpLKXDT8

Qman wrote:

Specifically, when Worthington, Austin, and Kyle. But when Worthington was five (I think) and Mika the four (help side) I liked that. Kind of like how Noah Hartsock made Davies a much better post defender.

I like Kyle bringing Tthe ball down so Carlino can come off a screen of set for a shot. Although MC did hit a three off the dribble last night. He has struggled with that historically.

The problem then is neither Worthington nor Mika can make a jumper or face up and drive. So your spacing is shot. That is why I think Austin can be so valuable.

Sure. BYU needs all 3! And all 3 are more serviceable to productive than a few no longer in program, like Harward, with all due respect to him.

Cougs_Rule wrote:
If KC has learned to take of the ball and can distribute, he could have the effect of magic Johnson: Tall, vision, can pass over the top, get to the RIM, and finish at the rim. He would draw ALOT of attention on D and free up outside shooters. This suits his strength best. He is not a good shooter, ugly form.

And Carlino does better as a 2 than a 1, IMO.

KC has length on D at the perimeter could add some much needed perimeter D as well.

What it really come to is a much better mix and match options depending on the opponent.

You should try watching some BYU basketball games. They are fun!



Carlino is far and away our best point guard, and it isn't even close. Sure, carlino shoots better as a 2 guard coming off of screens and working without the ball (that is why they refer to the position as a "shooting" guard). Carlino is BYU's all-time current leader in assists per game. As in, all-time. As in, there has never been a point guard at BYU that has more assists per game than Carlino. But yeah, we want to take the ball out of his hands because the other guy is tall. :whistle: Also, Carlino is our best perimeter defender, and that isn't close as well (though Bartley and a healthy Winder do make good additions to the defensive backcourt.) I think KC at the 3 with Haws at the 2 is perfect. I also like KC at the 4 for smaller lineups, or just to throw in some small ball to run up and down the court.



I think KC is perfect at the 3, as he adds some good defense and slashing ability, but he needs to stop shooting the 3. At least until defenders leave him so far open because of his driving that they dare him to shoot it and he has time to go through his rhytm (a la Matt Montague's junior and senior years).

BlueIsBetter wrote:

If KC has learned to take of the ball and can distribute, he could have the effect of magic Johnson: Tall, vision, can pass over the top, get to the RIM, and finish at the rim. He would draw ALOT of attention on D and free up outside shooters. This suits his strength best. He is not a good shooter, ugly form.

And Carlino does better as a 2 than a 1, IMO.

KC has length on D at the perimeter could add some much needed perimeter D as well.

What it really come to is a much better mix and match options depending on the opponent.

You should try watching some BYU basketball games. They are fun!



Carlino is far and away our best point guard, and it isn't even close. Sure, carlino shoots better as a 2 guard coming off of screens and working without the ball (that is why they refer to the position as a "shooting" guard). Carlino is BYU's all-time current leader in assists per game. As in, all-time. As in, there has never been a point guard at BYU that has more assists per game than Carlino. But yeah, we want to take the ball out of his hands because the other guy is tall. :whistle: Also, Carlino is our best perimeter defender, and that isn't close as well (though Bartley and a healthy Winder do make good additions to the defensive backcourt.) I think KC at the 3 with Haws at the 2 is perfect. I also like KC at the 4 for smaller lineups, or just to throw in some small ball to run up and down the court.



I think KC is perfect at the 3, as he adds some good defense and slashing ability, but he needs to stop shooting the 3. At least until defenders leave him so far open because of his driving that they dare him to shoot it and he has time to go through his rhytm (a la Matt Montague's junior and senior years).

Not sure you said much different than I meant. I'm not saying KC should be the 1. But Rose has and will use him to bring the ball up, initiate plays, get to the rim and dish, and yes, dish to Carlino coming off a screen. MCs APG will go down this year, for those two reasons. And I'm not sure I agree that MC is the best perimeter defender. He struggled at times last year with faster guards. Healthy Winder is better, IMO. Not bashing on MC at all. He will have a great year, and maybe as good or better than TyHaws. MC had to shoulder most ball handling last year. Now there are options with KC and that will help MCs game.

Cougs_Rule wrote:

Cougs_Rule wrote:
If KC has learned to take of the ball and can distribute, he could have the effect of magic Johnson: Tall, vision, can pass over the top, get to the RIM, and finish at the rim. He would draw ALOT of attention on D and free up outside shooters. This suits his strength best. He is not a good shooter, ugly form.

And Carlino does better as a 2 than a 1, IMO.

KC has length on D at the perimeter could add some much needed perimeter D as well.

What it really come to is a much better mix and match options depending on the opponent.

You should try watching some BYU basketball games. They are fun!



Carlino is far and away our best point guard, and it isn't even close. Sure, carlino shoots better as a 2 guard coming off of screens and working without the ball (that is why they refer to the position as a "shooting" guard). Carlino is BYU's all-time current leader in assists per game. As in, all-time. As in, there has never been a point guard at BYU that has more assists per game than Carlino. But yeah, we want to take the ball out of his hands because the other guy is tall. :whistle: Also, Carlino is our best perimeter defender, and that isn't close as well (though Bartley and a healthy Winder do make good additions to the defensive backcourt.) I think KC at the 3 with Haws at the 2 is perfect. I also like KC at the 4 for smaller lineups, or just to throw in some small ball to run up and down the court.



I think KC is perfect at the 3, as he adds some good defense and slashing ability, but he needs to stop shooting the 3. At least until defenders leave him so far open because of his driving that they dare him to shoot it and he has time to go through his rhytm (a la Matt Montague's junior and senior years).

Not sure you said much different than I meant. I'm not saying KC should be the 1. But Rose has and will use him to bring the ball up, initiate plays, get to the rim and dish, and yes, dish to Carlino coming off a screen. MCs APG will go down this year, for those two reasons. And I'm not sure I agree that MC is the best perimeter defender. He struggled at times last year with faster guards. Healthy Winder is better, IMO. Not bashing on MC at all. He will have a great year, and maybe as good or better than TyHaws. MC had to shoulder most ball handling last year. Now there are options with KC and that will help MCs game.

The difference between what you and I are saying is that you were suggesting that Greg Poppovich should have Khawi Leonard be the point guard instead of Parker sometimes, (based on matchups) because Leonard can handle the ball well enough not under pressure and passes well for a 6'6" small forward, and tony is so good at scoring and running around. What I am saying, is that is a silly suggestion.



Think of it more like this: Ginobili will run the point for the spurs a lot of times when Parker is out. Not because he is better, or the matchups are better, but because Parker needs a rest and Ginobili is the next best option to bring the ball safely down the court and facilitate the offense.



What it looks like to me (based on their early season games) is that KC is Carlino's backup. I don't think that KC will ever be consistently bringing the ball down when Carlino is in, for a couple reasons that I mentioned. (Carlino is a much better passer, he is faster and gets out in open space better, and his defense is better - currently ranked #3 in steals per game for BYU's all-time). Also, Carlino's assists per game is not going to go down this year, it will go up (even though it is pretty darn high already). I will put a burger on it. The run offense is going to be BYU's bread and butter, and it is where Carlino is best suited. Think: young Steve Nash on the D'Antoni Suns, but a lot better man defense. That is BYU's future, and I hope they reach that potential this year. I like the way that all the new guys are going to fit into that.



I think that the plan is to have Carlino, Winder/Bartley all as outlet options and KC, Haws and Mika running the floor. I think that has the potential to run teams out of the gym. KC needs to work on free throws, slashing and finishing at the rim, and right now shouldn't even consider playing point or shooting jump shots.

Every time I think of KC running point I have flash backs of him his freshman year bringing the ball up the court, his left arm held up as if it were in a sling while his right arm pounds the ball into the ground. As soon as he'd cross mid court, he'd get trapped; completely unable to use that left hand. He'd try to combat the issue and protect the ball, turning his back to his defender, only to expose his blind side. Given his high dribbling (he's 6'6") he was a pick waiting to happen. I don't see how he got better while not playing ball for two years.



The WCC is guard heavy. KC will get eaten alive if he tries to play PG. I'm fine with him streaking down the court on a fast break, but he won't last two games in conference play at PG, even as backup. People like to say he backed Jimmer up as a freshman. Not true. KC played PG for a couple of games, exposing his weak ball handling. It was Martineau that played backup PG to Jimmer.



Carlino is a special talent, and if he hadn't arrived just after Jimmer he'd be getting tons of praise. Instead, he's gotten a lot of criticism. I've said it before and will say it again, Carlino is the best all-around PG we've had in the last 15 years. The ball needs to go through Carlino. He can still come of screens and shoot as PG; just takes one extra pass.



We'll see how it shakes out, but my preference would be for KC to play the 3 or 4. Haws at the 2 makes sense, though I do wonder about Haws' ability to defend the 2.

Great points. I can buy the Parker/Leonard analogy. Whether Rose does or not, time will tell. Don't forget that he had the bright idea to play Zylstra at point as well and we know how that ended up.

Bottom line, KC has to learn to take care of the ball. But there is a reason he had a double double in the first game and part of it is his ability to get to the rim.

THe mix this year is very interesting. I suspect TyHaws' ppg will go down, but we'll see.

I think the best thing KC can do for our team this year is learn how to shoot > 70% FT. He's going to get fouled, especially at the end of games. If he shoots FRee throws like he did as a freshman it's going to cost us close games or he'll be on the bench in crunch time. He becomes a lot more solid player immediately if he can consistently knock down free throws. It's not that difficult, just takes practice and is something he should be able to improve now.

Overall, this team lacks experience and some of the talent is POTENTIAL not PROVEN yet. Should be fun to watch. Carlino has not proven himself to be an elite point guard. He may. He may not. At least he grew some hair. Maybe he will loosen up and not try to be someone he is not. That is why I liked his video. Nobody else on this team has proven themselves to be elite point guards, either, so don't boil over, Blue.



Young players grow from year-to-year. In a few days, vs a real opponent, we get to see how much Carlino has continued his upward trend. I am optimistic, because I can already tell he grew a little hair in the offseason.



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Gunk wrote:
Every time I think of KC running point I have flash backs of him his freshman year bringing the ball up the court, his left arm held up as if it were in a sling while his right arm pounds the ball into the ground. As soon as he'd cross mid court, he'd get trapped; completely unable to use that left hand. He'd try to combat the issue and protect the ball, turning his back to his defender, only to expose his blind side. Given his high dribbling (he's 6'6") he was a pick waiting to happen. I don't see how he got better while not playing ball for two years.

Ball is still traveling 6'4" vertically each time Collinsworth dribbles.