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Will a certain linebacker at Notre Dame transfer?

by byugo · 12/2/2009

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snoscythe
Mars wrote:
A school cannot recruit athletes from other schools while serving anymore. It used to be that you could start re-recruiting them after they were gone for one-year. However, the rule does not prohibit the athlete on the mission from contacting a new school--if he initiates contact, the new school will not have to get a release from the school that previously held the NLI.

No, I'm pretty sure that RMs have to sit out an entire year now if they want to transfer. That's the whole point of the rule.


The contact language is similar to recruiting rules. The point of the rule was to prevent BYU from recruiting football players in a "sensitive" situation, not to prevent transfers from playing. The penalty is imposed for the school contacting the recruit, not for the recruit transferring.



The rule does not address the situation where an athlete simply changes his mind (like Brandon Bradley and Riley Nelson) mid-mission and the recruit (or his family or HS coach) contacts the new school to determine if a scholarship will be available.



The rule is not terribly clear, but if a missionary decided to transfer to BYU after his mission, I do not think he has to sit out unless BYU initiates the contact.
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snoscythe
hawkwing wrote:
I also thought it included sitting out a year, but after searching online (I'm not going to pay the $16 to download the NCAA rule book) I can find no official reference to this, just the bylaw in question:
In Bylaw 13.1.1.3.2.1 of the NCAA handbook, it states: An institution shall not contact a student-athlete who has begun service on an official church mission without obtaining permission from the institution from which the student-athlete withdrew prior to beginning his or her mission if the student-athlete signed a National Letter of Intent (NLI) and attended the institution (with which he or she signed the NLI) as a full-time student. ... If such a student-athlete has completed his or her official church mission and does not enroll full-time in a collegiate institution within one calendar year of completion of the mission, an institution may contact the student-athlete without obtaining permission from the first institution.


I quoted the rule, as adopted, in my first response to you. There is no new penalty imposed--any violation will be treated as a recruiting violation, subject to the same NCAA sanctions as any other prohibited contact situation.
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Guest
snoscythe wrote:
I also thought it included sitting out a year, but after searching online (I'm not going to pay the $16 to download the NCAA rule book) I can find no official reference to this, just the bylaw in question:
In Bylaw 13.1.1.3.2.1 of the NCAA handbook, it states: An institution shall not contact a student-athlete who has begun service on an official church mission without obtaining permission from the institution from which the student-athlete withdrew prior to beginning his or her mission if the student-athlete signed a National Letter of Intent (NLI) and attended the institution (with which he or she signed the NLI) as a full-time student. ... If such a student-athlete has completed his or her official church mission and does not enroll full-time in a collegiate institution within one calendar year of completion of the mission, an institution may contact the student-athlete without obtaining permission from the first institution.


I quoted the rule, as adopted, in my first response to you.


Yeah, I know, I was requoting it. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.
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ProV1
imuakahuku wrote:
He is right now trying to decide between a mission and going back. For those who constantly harp on the "incident", are you that close to him that you know what he is about? Please stop assuming. He is a very good young man. I would love to see him serve and then go to BYU but it is all up to him as to what he will do and "drinking" has nothing to do with the decision.



BTW - Unlike many who "cast stones", I wasn't perfect before serving my mission. But they let me go and I served with all my heart, might, mind, and strength. Imagine that! A repentant sinner actually serving a fairly successful mission. :roll:


Thanks, imuakahuku, I appreciate "insider" info as opposed to the rest of us who only look on from the outside and therefore can just speculate. I'm a firm believer in repentance, forgiveness, and linebackers who are fast and can hit. We'd be lucky to have him.
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Mars
imuakahuku wrote:
For those who constantly harp on the "incident", are you that close to him that you know what he is about? Please stop assuming. He is a very good young man. I would love to see him serve and then go to BYU but it is all up to him as to what he will do and "drinking" has nothing to do with the decision.
Sure. And Tiger Woods cheating on his wife "has nothing" to do with his car accident.



Look, I know you like to play Teo's PR man, but he's a liar, and I doubt he'll ever go on a mission or transfer from Notre Dame. Either way, that would be at least one year of media attention NOT being on himself, which I don't think the kid can handle.
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Mars
snoscythe wrote:
The contact language is similar to recruiting rules. The point of the rule was to prevent BYU from recruiting football players in a "sensitive" situation, not to prevent transfers from playing. The penalty is imposed for the school contacting the recruit, not for the recruit transferring. The rule does not address the situation where an athlete simply changes his mind (like Brandon Bradley and Riley Nelson) mid-mission and the recruit (or his family or HS coach) contacts the new school to determine if a scholarship will be available. The rule is not terribly clear, but if a missionary decided to transfer to BYU after his mission, I do not think he has to sit out unless BYU initiates the contact.

You're right, it is unclear. That being said, I agree to disagree. I think a kid changing his mind and deciding to go elsewhere would have to walk on, no scholarship. How can you get a schollie offer without being contacted? The rule doesn't say "unless the player makes first contact". It says "NO CONTACT", period, during the mission and for 12 months afterwards.
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SpiffCoug
snoscythe wrote:

The Riley Nelson Rule only affects recruiting of missionaries:


Official Church Mission. An institution shall not contact a student-athlete who has begun service on an official church mission without obtaining permission from the institution from which the student-athlete withdrew prior to beginning his or her mission if the student-athlete signed a National Letter of Intent (NLI) and attended the institution (with which he or she signed the NLI) as a full-time student.



If such a student-athlete has completed his or her official church mission and does not enroll full time in a collegiate institution within one calendar year of completion of the mission, an institution may contact the student-athlete without obtaining permission from the first institution.


A school cannot recruit athletes from other schools while serving anymore. It used to be that you could start re-recruiting them after they were gone for one-year. However, the rule does not prohibit the athlete on the mission from contacting a new school--if he initiates contact, the new school will not have to get a release from the school that previously held the NLI.


Max had to sit out because he wasn't gone a year. He only served like 10 months.



If I'm reading this right, wouldn't the returned missionary who doesn't enroll full-time within one calendar year of his mission be the same thing as having to sit out for a year?
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BroncoBot
imuakahuku wrote:

BTW - Unlike many who "cast stones", I wasn't perfect before serving my mission. But they let me go and I served with all my heart, might, mind, and strength. Imagine that! A repentant sinner actually serving a fairly successful mission. :roll:


Man, I wish my mission had that kind of impact on me. :lol:



I'm still working on the perfect part.
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CougarPeasant
Sno, you are really doing well with your IRAC method, but the rule says the institution shall not contact the recruit while serving his mission. It does not specify that contact means first to act or just respond, which would be contact. Mars makes a good point.



We'll only know once someone tries to transfer and challenge the rule. Unfortunately, there is no appeal once the NCAA makes its ruling. I could see a challenge under the 1st Amendment as being discriminatory on its face as it singles out RELIGIOUS SERVICE and none other.



To me, there should be no distinction under the transfer rule for not attending college for at least a year for any reason, especially if it is for religious service. To single out and punish the student because of religion, which is what the Riley Nelson rule does, is just plain UN-AMERICAN. Typical aggies. :angry: :angry: :angry:
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byutx
Did I miss an announcement regarding a lifting of the honor code and/or word of wisdom?



[I didn't read the whole thread, so sorry if someone already mentioned this.]
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Ddawg
jonnylingo wrote:
My guess is that Manti jost lost a lot of interst in where he goes for college football. He will put in one more year, maybe two and then go to the NFL.



At this point transferring and sitting out isn't worth it to him unless he actually cared about having a college career. I doubt that is the case. Now its all about getting into the NFL. He can do that just fine at Notre Dame even if they suck.


Bingo!!! And yes - suck they do.
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UVACoug
BYUROCKS wrote:
I'm with Mars, I believe missionaries who enroll and attend a univeristy will have to now sit out a year after their missions due to the new rule.


I thought the new rule was not passed? and it was just a bunch of USU people who where pushing for it.


It was passed, and BYU supported it I believe. Keeps other teams from trying to poach our missionaries.
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Ddawg
hawkwing wrote:
I would gladly accept a repentant Teo. Heck, there are two Teo's who, if they were truly repentant and able to demonstrate that in an acceptable manner, I would welcome them back with open arms.


Who cares about repenting - I just want those boyz to play for the Cougs & kick some heavy ass!!

But - that won't happen - this is an exercise in futility - ad nauseum. It's more likely I will be nominated for a "Good Citizenship" award. I assure you - that will never happen.
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BroncoBot
byutx wrote:
Did I miss an announcement regarding a lifting of the honor code and/or word of wisdom?



[I didn't read the whole thread, so sorry if someone already mentioned this.]

Are you guys serious? You're trying to tell me that you didn't know anyone who did some drugs (anything including alcohol and smoking) before attending BYU/serving a mission/becoming a great home teacher/becoming just a plain old good person? I'm not about to go "steed" on ya'll but man, forgive and forget.



I'll let Bronco and the others who were involved in the debacle sort this out IF (and that's a huge if) our old recruit wants to come to BYU. And perhaps in the case that he does want to come back the coaching staff may decide that they do NOT want him to come back. And that's fine with me too.
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imuakahuku
Mars wrote:
For those who constantly harp on the "incident", are you that close to him that you know what he is about? Please stop assuming. He is a very good young man. I would love to see him serve and then go to BYU but it is all up to him as to what he will do and "drinking" has nothing to do with the decision.
Sure. And Tiger Woods cheating on his wife "has nothing" to do with his car accident.



Look, I know you like to play Teo's PR man, but he's a liar, and I doubt he'll ever go on a mission or transfer from Notre Dame. Either way, that would be at least one year of media attention NOT being on himself, which I don't think the kid can handle.


Sorry, but I am not his PR man. I know the family very well and know more than the average guy about certain things. It bothers me when people assume things about a person, especially when I know what the family is like. If I were close to Van Noy I would be saying the same things. What happened is his business and how he addresses it is his business. We can debate how we feel about what happened etc, but in his case some here talk as though he is an alcholoic. I am working on getting the beam out of my eye before I start calling Van Noy a drunk or claiming that all he does is drink whenever and wherever he can. I believe he can and has made the change he needed to make because that is the info I have to go on.



BTW-How many of you have lived in Laie. It was a beautiful place to grow up but I can hardly return now because of how bad things are there. There are as many as three families living in one house. THREE FAMILIES!!! Luckily for him, his family does not, but they have a very small home there. Now put yourself in his shoes and just consider things from that angle. I have said more than I ever planned to because it is not my place to do so, but I just ask that you guys give up on the HC thing because is had nothing to do with his decision to go to ND. If alcohol were a problem then he wouldn't have the problem with deciding to serve a mission or not.
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Mars
imuakahuku wrote:
I just ask that you guys give up on the HC thing because is had nothing to do with his decision to go to ND. If alcohol were a problem then he wouldn't have the problem with deciding to serve a mission or not.

I think you're way too close to the situation to have any credibility. He isn't serving a mission. Alcohol is likely only a small part of that decision, though drinkers have lied to their bishop to please their family before.
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Ddawg
imuakahuku wrote:
imuakahuku wrote:
For those who constantly harp on the "incident", are you that close to him that you know what he is about? Please stop assuming. He is a very good young man. I would love to see him serve and then go to BYU but it is all up to him as to what he will do and "drinking" has nothing to do with the decision.
Sure. And Tiger Woods cheating on his wife "has nothing" to do with his car accident.



Look, I know you like to play Teo's PR man, but he's a liar, and I doubt he'll ever go on a mission or transfer from Notre Dame. Either way, that would be at least one year of media attention NOT being on himself, which I don't think the kid can handle.


Sorry, but I am not his PR man. I know the family very well and know more than the average guy about certain things. It bothers me when people assume things about a person, especially when I know what the family is like. If I were close to Van Noy I would be saying the same things. What happened is his business and how he addresses it is his business. We can debate how we feel about what happened etc, but in his case some here talk as though he is an alcholoic. I am working on getting the beam out of my eye before I start calling Van Noy a drunk or claiming that all he does is drink whenever and wherever he can. I believe he can and has made the change he needed to make because that is the info I have to go on.



BTW-How many of you have lived in Laie. It was a beautiful place to grow up but I can hardly return now because of how bad things are there. There are as many as three families living in one house. THREE FAMILIES!!! Luckily for him, his family does not, but they have a very small home there. Now put yourself in his shoes and just consider things from that angle. I have said more than I ever planned to because it is not my place to do so, but I just ask that you guys give up on the HC thing because is had nothing to do with his decision to go to ND. If alcohol were a problem then he wouldn't have the problem with deciding to serve a mission or not.


"Imua" - thanks for the insight. I'm just pissed off that the Teo's - both of them - aren't smashing Yewts & Horned Frogs while wearing Cougar Blue. I wish them luck. But I'm a pathetic blue goggler.
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Wickchad
If he decides to go on a mission that I would love to have him come to BYU when he gets back. Hopefully the mission would change his drinking habits and he would mature.



While the new rule prohibits BYU from contacting him on his mission you can be sure that BYU fans and alumni would be recruiting him wherever he goes. Maybe his family would even put pressure on him to come to BYU again since they seemed to want him to come here. But maybe all the bashing he has received on the BYU message boards has changed his family's mind...
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imuakahuku
Wickchad84087 wrote:
If he decides to go on a mission that I would love to have him come to BYU when he gets back. Hopefully the mission would change his drinking habits and he would mature.



While the new rule prohibits BYU from contacting him on his mission you can be sure that BYU fans and alumni would be recruiting him wherever he goes. Maybe his family would even put pressure on him to come to BYU again since they seemed to want him to come here. But maybe all the bashing he has received on the BYU message boards has changed his family's mind...


I will say that when I speak to his Dad, they absolutely love Bronco. They cannot speak enough of how much they like him. They also said they like Weis very much and felt very comfortable with him. So if Manti were to go on a mission, he could very will change his mind all by himself simply based on environment and coaches. And if he decided he would get a lot of support from family.

I will also say that they are pretty upset by many of the posts that condenmed him before he even made his decision. They felt hurt by the non-support of many posters that continually berated him and judged him without knowing him as a person. That will continue to be a knock against him ever deciding in coming but I think he is strong enough to ignore them and make his own decision. If he goes on a mission then I think we will have a great chance to see him change his mind, mostly because of the life changes that will have taken place. And he will see another path to achieve the goals that he has set for himself and his family. This is the big clue I will leave here as to why he chose ND over BYU so maybe some of those on here will let the alcohol thing go finally.
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imuakahuku
Mars wrote:
I just ask that you guys give up on the HC thing because is had nothing to do with his decision to go to ND. If alcohol were a problem then he wouldn't have the problem with deciding to serve a mission or not.

I think you're way too close to the situation to have any credibility. He isn't serving a mission. Alcohol is likely only a small part of that decision, though drinkers have lied to their bishop to please their family before.




I agree, being too close and knowing most of the facts would impair my judgement. :roll: You don't happen to practice law do you? I sure hope not because unless you just did wills and trusts or other paperwork, that logic would be pretty lame. I can see you in a cross-x and telling the jury that the eye-witness should be discounted because they saw too much! That they should rely on the "experts" because they have studied behavior and have a better feel for what happened even though there were not there, saw nothing, and know virtually none of the facts. Yep, a regular Sherlock Holms.



Mars, please drop the Alcohol and HC arguement because it had no impact on his decision and continues to have no impact on whether he serves a mission or stays and plays.
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