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Will a certain linebacker at Notre Dame transfer?

by byugo · 12/2/2009

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CougarClaw
I'm amazed that internet posters played a part in the recruiting decision of an awesome player. That should tell us something.



I'm not in a position to 'forgive' or 'forget' because nothing he did hurt me.



And if any of the Teo family reads this, you bet that people's memories will become awful short with each sack from the backfield. Look at Tonga, he made some (different) mistakes and had to pay for them by sitting out a year. No one watched him play this year and yelled anti-academic slurs at him. They cheered everytime he bowled over someone or caught a TD.



Same thing. I'd say forget what people are saying because as soon as you give them something else to talk about, it will be a distant memory with a BCS bowl win and a top 5 defense.



We'd love to have you.
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CougarClaw
That is of course with the very important assumption that all HC rules are followed. We want excellent players at BYU. Always have, always will. But leaving early is not an option. Commit and stick to it. I don't think anyone disagrees when I say we don't want people who damage the program. but say yes, and I'll believe.
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Short_Change
imuakahuku wrote:
If he decides to go on a mission that I would love to have him come to BYU when he gets back. Hopefully the mission would change his drinking habits and he would mature.



While the new rule prohibits BYU from contacting him on his mission you can be sure that BYU fans and alumni would be recruiting him wherever he goes. Maybe his family would even put pressure on him to come to BYU again since they seemed to want him to come here. But maybe all the bashing he has received on the BYU message boards has changed his family's mind...


I will say that when I speak to his Dad, they absolutely love Bronco. They cannot speak enough of how much they like him. They also said they like Weis very much and felt very comfortable with him. So if Manti were to go on a mission, he could very will change his mind all by himself simply based on environment and coaches. And if he decided he would get a lot of support from family.

I will also say that they are pretty upset by many of the posts that condenmed him before he even made his decision. They felt hurt by the non-support of many posters that continually berated him and judged him without knowing him as a person. That will continue to be a knock against him ever deciding in coming but I think he is strong enough to ignore them and make his own decision. If he goes on a mission then I think we will have a great chance to see him change his mind, mostly because of the life changes that will have taken place. And he will see another path to achieve the goals that he has set for himself and his family. This is the big clue I will leave here as to why he chose ND over BYU so maybe some of those on here will let the alcohol thing go finally.


I don't get all this "if he goes on a mission" stuff. He already said he was going to serve a mission. Has something changed or did I misinterpret something? (I'm being completely sincere, btw).
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Lawboy
If Manti called up BYU and said he wants to come and will sit out 2010, I would celebrate. I do not care if he serves a mission or not--that is his business. Just as it is Harvey Unga's business why he didn't, Steve Young's why he didn't, and Kyle Van Noy's business why he will probably not either. And Jake Heaps, too. We idolize Harvey, and will do the same with Van Noy, and they both made youthful errors. I will not be hypocritical and place a different standard on Manti simply because he does not play ball at BYU. Same with Uona Kaveinga and Stanley Havili. The kid is one of us--LDS--and I wish him well.
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Wickchad
Lawboy wrote:
If Manti called up BYU and said he wants to come and will sit out 2010, I would celebrate. I do not care if he serves a mission or not--that is his business. Just as it is Harvey Unga's business why he didn't, Steve Young's why he didn't, and Kyle Van Noy's business why he will probably not either. And Jake Heaps, too. We idolize Harvey, and will do the same with Van Noy, and they both made youthful errors. I will not be hypocritical and place a different standard on Manti simply because he does not play ball at BYU. Same with Uona Kaveinga and Stanley Havili. The kid is one of us--LDS--and I wish him well.


I only want 5 star plays at other colleges to serve missions, not the ones at BYU. Let the BYU players serve a 4 year mission in Provo. Let players like Teo go on a mission and have 2 years to think about their error in not coming to BYU in the first place. I'm glad Max Hall did.
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byutx
declocoug wrote:
Did I miss an announcement regarding a lifting of the honor code and/or word of wisdom?



[I didn't read the whole thread, so sorry if someone already mentioned this.]

Are you guys serious? You're trying to tell me that you didn't know anyone who did some drugs (anything including alcohol and smoking) before attending BYU/serving a mission/becoming a great home teacher/becoming just a plain old good person? I'm not about to go "steed" on ya'll but man, forgive and forget.



I'll let Bronco and the others who were involved in the debacle sort this out IF (and that's a huge if) our old recruit wants to come to BYU. And perhaps in the case that he does want to come back the coaching staff may decide that they do NOT want him to come back. And that's fine with me too.


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BroncoBot
byutx wrote:
byutx wrote:
Did I miss an announcement regarding a lifting of the honor code and/or word of wisdom?



[I didn't read the whole thread, so sorry if someone already mentioned this.]

Are you guys serious? You're trying to tell me that you didn't know anyone who did some drugs (anything including alcohol and smoking) before attending BYU/serving a mission/becoming a great home teacher/becoming just a plain old good person? I'm not about to go "steed" on ya'll but man, forgive and forget.



I'll let Bronco and the others who were involved in the debacle sort this out IF (and that's a huge if) our old recruit wants to come to BYU. And perhaps in the case that he does want to come back the coaching staff may decide that they do NOT want him to come back. And that's fine with me too.


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:lol: :lol: :lol: :blush: :sulk:



Good one.
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Ddawg
Mars wrote:
I just ask that you guys give up on the HC thing because is had nothing to do with his decision to go to ND. If alcohol were a problem then he wouldn't have the problem with deciding to serve a mission or not.

I think you're way too close to the situation to have any credibility. He isn't serving a mission. Alcohol is likely only a small part of that decision, though drinkers have lied to their bishop to please their family before.


Mars - I respect you - but you need to lighten up. You are way to harsh & opinionated on a pretty delicate subject. What does it hurt to lighten up on the kid??

Pound the Yewts - give Manti some slack. It won't hurt a thing Brutha.
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craigoscarson
I was going to post this on the Ho Ching thread, but it applies here too.



Aside from Haloti Ngata, there have been very few high profile LDS recruits that turned down BYU and thrived. I'm not sure why, but it's simply been the case. (I said high profile...)



In hoops, Chris Burgess was a huge flop at Duke. Sharp shooter and JUCO all america, Brad Garrett had 3 years to play 3 and turned down BYU to sit the pine at Oklahoma State; he hasn't played since his soph year, when everyone realized he wasnt' athletic enough to play the style of OSU.



Stanley Havili was a coveted recruit by BYU. While his team has done well, he has rushed for less than 300 yards and 800 yards receiving in his entire career. He's been a good player for them, but he would have been a centerpiece at BYU. (again no mission)



Uona Kaveinga ? No mission; though he had indicated that he chose USC because they'd be open to the idea, and not starting as a soph there. He'd have been a major player on our team this year.



Sua Filo and Teo may not ever see an 8+ win team in their college careers.

Teo has already lost the coach that recruited him and his team faces a much tougher schedule (6 road games compared to 4 last year, and nearly everyteam they play next year started a ton of underclassmen; throw in the imminent losses of Clausen, Young, and Golden Tate and next year could be a disaster)



Ben Olsen.... well, that subject has been hammered to death.



I'm not saying that LDS players haven't thrived outside of Provo, but the high profile ones rarely have. Maybe it's total coincidence; I happen to think it isn't..



(btw- Joe Germaine and Darrell Bevell were 2 (relatively low profile LDS recruits) that turned out to lead their Big 10 teams to incredible seasons, less you think I'm naive enough to think they can't succeed outside of Provo)



My opinion of Mantis decision was the same back then as it is today. I never thought alcohol played a part in his decision. I personally think it had more to do with the influences around him at his private school.



However, it is impossible to think about Manti and Shiloah Teo without considering the fact that both came to Provo, and defiantly broke the honor code by drinking. A kid that KNOWS what BYU stands for could so blatantly make a decision like that the weekend that he comes to BYU (on BYUs dime) is a complete slap of the face. (this is where I differentiate Kyle Van Noy and Manti Teo. Van Noy did not drink the weekend he was a guest of BYU. Manti did)



This isn't about what fans say about the Teos any more than what the Teos said in their actions. Like they say, actions speak louder than words. And those actions spoke loudly. (would you go to apply for a job drunk, if you were serious about the job? and how would you feel about the person applying for that job if you worked for the company he showed no respect for?)



I'm not going to go as extreme as Mars here, but I have to agree with him to an extent. There is value to a 1st impression, and if the 1st impression Manti gave to BYU fans, is that he couldn't abide by the rules for a recruiting weekend, then honestly I think he showed us that at the time he wasn't a good fit and that he did not respect BYU.



I do agree that people make mistakes and grow up. Maybe he'll grow up, but I dont' see BYU in those plans. That ship has sailed.



Is it possible for a kid to serve a mission, grow up and do a complete 180 as far as what he wants in life and who he wants as a coach and role model? sure... but even if that happens, it still doesn't mean he's coming to BYU.



BTW - the NCAA has a rule that a player can be let out of his commitment under the grounds of a coaching change etc. (if the school will release him and I believe the player has to petition the NCAA' but it makes perfect sense, the incoming coach may see/run things completely different than the coach that recruited you). In this case, Manti could open up recruitment even prior to serving a mission. Not that it matters, I dont' see it happening.
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blue buddha
Ddawg wrote:
imuakahuku wrote:
I just ask that you guys give up on the HC thing because is had nothing to do with his decision to go to ND. If alcohol were a problem then he wouldn't have the problem with deciding to serve a mission or not.

I think you're way too close to the situation to have any credibility. He isn't serving a mission. Alcohol is likely only a small part of that decision, though drinkers have lied to their bishop to please their family before.


Mars - I respect you - but you need to lighten up. You are way to harsh & opinionated on a pretty delicate subject. What does it hurt to lighten up on the kid??

Pound the Yewts - give Manti some slack. It won't hurt a thing Brutha.


I have a close friend who works in the Honor Code office, and though he is always hush about any incident he told me that the HC office has no proof that Manti drank (and many of these agents are former law inforcement on the federal and local government levels). He was at a party where there was drinking, but he NEVER DRANK. Further proof he never drank: Bronco didn't revoked Manti's scholarship.
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craigoscarson
I assure you that he did and you can ask any of a dozen guys that were recruits there that night. Ask Richard Wilson, he's told several BYU fans the true story.



The honor code doesn't apply to non BYU students, they would have nothing to do with the recruiting weekend.



Go troll elsewhere. Your 3rd grade spelling and grammar gives you away.
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Mars
imuakahuku wrote:
I agree, being too close and knowing most of the facts would impair my judgement. :roll: You don't happen to practice law do you? I sure hope not because unless you just did wills and trusts or other paperwork, that logic would be pretty lame. I can see you in a cross-x and telling the jury that the eye-witness should be discounted because they saw too much! That they should rely on the "experts" because they have studied behavior and have a better feel for what happened even though there were not there, saw nothing, and know virtually none of the facts. Yep, a regular Sherlock Holms.



Mars, please drop the Alcohol and HC arguement because it had no impact on his decision and continues to have no impact on whether he serves a mission or stays and plays.

In Salt Lake City last year a little girl was molested and killed in her apartment complex by a neighbor. The police found the body stuffed into a space downstairs. In the papers, the killer's mom said that despite all of the evidence, her son was "a good boy" and thus couldn't have committed the heinous crime. Do YOU really think that kind of "logic" got him acquitted, Sherlock?



As for the 2nd part of your comment, it's a blatant lie. Repeating yourself doesn't make it true.
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Lawboy
Van Noy got a DUI. Van Noy is still coming to BYU. Drinking does not disqualify a recruit, plain and simple. Neither does other stupid criminal things that Harvey did. Yeah, coaches address them. Yeah, they warn and give a shot rope. But is does not disqualify. Had Manti chosen BYU, he would be here.
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BoiseBYU
I continue to be amazed at the fixation we seem to have with Brother Manti. The fact that he was "rated" a five star LB means little to me. He did start and had his moments at ND, but he was not good enough, or the scheme was not good enough, that he really had much of an impact in ND's defensive efforts....He was a good freshman who played while other schools ran over his team again and again. The bottom line is that he made his bed with Big Charlie. Let him sleep in it and let's move on. We talk talk talk the Teos and yet they are not here. I wish them well, but dang they are not BYU; they are not BYU football. Let's talk Harvey, the greatest running back of all time at BYU, lets' talk Dennis one of the best TEs ever, and let's talk the great wins over UT and OK....
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craigoscarson
BoiseBYU wrote:
I continue to be amazed at the fixation we seem to have with Brother Manti. The fact that he was "rated" a five star LB means little to me. He did start and had his moments at ND, but he was not good enough, or the scheme was not good enough, that he really had much of an impact in ND's defensive efforts....He was a good freshman who played while other schools ran over his team again and again. The bottom line is that he made his bed with Big Charlie. Let him sleep in it and let's move on. We talk talk talk the Teos and yet they are not here. I wish them well, but dang they are not BYU; they are not BYU football. Let's talk Harvey, the greatest running back of all time at BYU, lets' talk Dennis one of the best TEs ever, and let's talk the great wins over UT and OK....




You know I couldnt' agree more. I'm tired of the Teo talk (which probably sounds stupid coming from me as I am always found chiming in on these discussions)

However, I have a very hard time seeing the disinformation and spin that goes on by others about Manti.



He's a good and possibly great football player. He's possibly a smart kid with a great family. He chose Notre Dame, and didn't have his best moment when he was given an opportunity to chose us.... end of story right? (I wish)



He's a kid, he made a mistake(s). My issue is that having made that mistake at the time and place that he did, showed complete and utter disrespect for Bronco and the team (and apparently the Teo family loves Bronco right) - can you imagine going to your grandparents house and getting liquored up for it?



By all acounts, I think he sent a message loud and clear about how he feels about BYU by doing that (same deal with Shiloah) - why would we want anyone that doesn't want to be at the Y and doesn't show respect for what the school stands for? (this includes all BYU students, not just the athletes)



Mistakes happen, and for the most part I think we're forgiving people. Kyle Vannoy could have gone to a litany of schools rather than sit out an entire year. That showed how bad he wanted to be at BYU.



I don't particularly care about drinking. I live in the midwest where the fact that my family doesn't drink seems just crazy to my friends and coworkers. I don't think any less of them because they do. However, I assure you that if my family invites them over for a barbeque, that they don't bring along a 6 pack of beer, etc. They know what we believe and they respect it. This is where my issue with Manti begins and ends.



After the recruiting weekend there was a great deal of spin and even a bit of denial; which dumbfounded me; given the supporting claims of many people that were around both Teo boys that weekend. In that event, and the event that occured this year with Shiloah, neither owned up to their mistakes. Do they owe us an explanation? No, absolutely not

Did Shiloah owe Bronco one? you bet



I know it's easy to say, "I know the family; they're good people and their kids are good" but that doesn't preclude them from making mistakes. Mistakes happen. But "good families and good kids" own up to their mistakes; and that never happened (at least initially). There's a difference between silence and denial, and there was outright denial.



But again, consider the fact that it isn't about the alcohol, but rather the timing of the choice. When we go to church and tell our little ones to be reverent, we ask them to act better than what they normally act like at home and at play (anyone that says differently is either crazy or they run their home like boot camp). I guess I just feel that if BYU (or any school for that matter) paid to fly a kid to their school, show them why their school is so great, pay for their entertainment, food, etc. etc. that maybe a "good kid" would know that this is a time to show a little respect; especially if that kid already knew very well what BYU is all about.



My daughter is 3 yrs old, I've already come to terms with the fact that some day she'll grow up, like boys, and bring boys into our home. She could bring superman home to us, but if on day 1 he shows disrespect to my daughter or our family, I'll be ready to write him off, it's as simple as that.

There are many linebackers in the sea (as we've seen with Van Noy, Stout, Keoshian, Ogletree, Ho Ching, Pritchard, Alisa, etc. etc. etc.) we don't need one that in their one moment to show respect to BYU, couldn't do it. I don't care if he's 5 star or a potential waterboy.



I wish we could get on with our great football program without harping on this issue; but I also think that as long as the issue is out there that the truth needs to be out there too.



Manti is not a part of the BYU family; he wouldn't have been the difference in any of our losses this year. He chose a shaky Notre Dame program, and was recruited by a coach that many of us could see was not cutting it a mile away. His firing comes as little suprise to many in college football. End of story... (I wish)
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CougarClaw
BoiseBYU wrote:
I continue to be amazed at the fixation we seem to have with Brother Manti. The fact that he was "rated" a five star LB means little to me. He did start and had his moments at ND, but he was not good enough, or the scheme was not good enough, that he really had much of an impact in ND's defensive efforts....He was a good freshman who played while other schools ran over his team again and again. The bottom line is that he made his bed with Big Charlie. Let him sleep in it and let's move on. We talk talk talk the Teos and yet they are not here. I wish them well, but dang they are not BYU; they are not BYU football. Let's talk Harvey, the greatest running back of all time at BYU, lets' talk Dennis one of the best TEs ever, and let's talk the great wins over UT and OK....


I think the transfer question makes this legitimate, but it is true he played a role in a team that hasn't done all that well.
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Mars
Lawboy wrote:
Van Noy got a DUI. Van Noy is still coming to BYU. Drinking does not disqualify a recruit, plain and simple. Neither does other stupid criminal things that Harvey did. Yeah, coaches address them. Yeah, they warn and give a shot rope. But is does not disqualify. Had Manti chosen BYU, he would be here.
Both VanNoy and Unga sat out a year after high school. And both were honest with Bronco and the media in admitting that they were wrong.



Young kids drink, it's not the world's worst sin. It's the lies afterwards that bother me about any kid that once claimed to be interested in either BYU or a mission. Kids can make mistakes and change their lives afterwards, but not if they remain in complete denial.
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blue buddha
craigoscarson wrote:
I assure you that he did and you can ask any of a dozen guys that were recruits there that night. Ask Richard Wilson, he's told several BYU fans the true story.



The honor code doesn't apply to non BYU students, they would have nothing to do with the recruiting weekend.



Go troll elsewhere. Your 3rd grade spelling and grammar gives you away.


hehe, not trolling, just passing along what I heard.



And most sinseerist apulgies for mine 3rd grade speling n grammur. :)
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jonnylingo
blue buddha wrote:
I assure you that he did and you can ask any of a dozen guys that were recruits there that night. Ask Richard Wilson, he's told several BYU fans the true story.



The honor code doesn't apply to non BYU students, they would have nothing to do with the recruiting weekend.



Go troll elsewhere. Your 3rd grade spelling and grammar gives you away.


hehe, not trolling, just passing along what I heard.



And most sinseerist apulgies for mine 3rd grade speling n grammur. :)


thr is no plase for gramar insults on a messsage bored!
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