Is It Too Soon - Iowa State @BYU Thread.

mizzoucoug wrote:
Frdbtr is correct about Haws. The problem with his game is that he doesn't create off the dribble on his own. He comes of curls and screens. Late in games that can be defended as we saw on the pathetic shot that was blocked. That's why I said that Carlino should be taking late shots not Haws or KC. Carlino is our clutch player for better or for worse.

That same shot that people are bemoaning could have elicited a foul and free throws... something he did a ton last year and premission.



It sucks, we were that close, but I'm sorry. Tyler Haws is a star and the best player we've had since Jimmer and before that who knows how long. He had a bad game. This is not some foreshadowing of things to come.

byucougar1 wrote:
Georges is 6-7/240). Put Kafusi on him and he has second thoughts about going to the basket hard. Kafusi is still a missing piece with this team as it has no enforcer. 6-11 Austin has height and rebounds well but is not a defensive stopper.

Austin was getting abused by that guy. I don't know why we didn't go into a zone or at least give Austin help, for crying out loud, that guy was getting layup after layup with little resistance when Austin was on him.

craigoscarson wrote:

Frdbtr is correct about Haws. The problem with his game is that he doesn't create off the dribble on his own. He comes of curls and screens. Late in games that can be defended as we saw on the pathetic shot that was blocked. That's why I said that Carlino should be taking late shots not Haws or KC. Carlino is our clutch player for better or for worse.

That same shot that people are bemoaning could have elicited a foul and free throws... something he did a ton last year and premission.



It sucks, we were that close, but I'm sorry. Tyler Haws is a star and the best player we've had since Jimmer and before that who knows how long. He had a bad game. This is not some foreshadowing of things to come.

He is the best player we have had since Jimmer. He may break Jimmers scoring record when all is said and done. He still isn't a player that you hand the ball to in crunch time and tell him to go out and win it. He is a scottie pippin, not a Michael Jordan.

Kaufusi would be useful to give some fouls. That is about it unless he has improved as much as Austin did. Haws was fouled on that supposed block. Got way more forearm than he got ball. On another Haws got the guy in the air and leaned in and drew contact. No call. Same thing at the very end.



ISU pulled away from a Michigan team that had looked better all night. Very physical contact not called in that one either.



The sun will rise tomorrow. I just hope Mikael can see it with both eyes.

frdbtr wrote:

How many points did he score in crunch time tonight?

Haws only field goal in the 2nd half came in the final min of the game. That's pretty crunch time, isn't it? His only points in the 2nd half came in the final 5 min of the game. If you read comments from Iowa's coach he says their main strategy on defense was to ensure Haws didn't score.



Haws certainly has room for improvement, starting with his ball handling. But as Iowa's coach says, "He's a big time, big time player."

frdbtr wrote:

How many in games against Gonzaga and St mary's last year?

St Mary's - 23 pts

St Mary's - 12 pts

Gonzaga - 1 pts

Gonzaga - 19 pts



So really only one bad game in that bunch. Guess you could say the 12 points against St Mary's was also a bad game, but in that game BYU only scored 57 points - so Haws had nearly a 5th of the teams' points. Can't fault him there too much for that one.

frdbtr wrote:
Please stop criticizing my opinion in such a way that I have to disparage a very good player in order to make my point. Haws is a very good basketball player but he is not a player that can put BYU on his shoulders and carry us to the win. That is my only point, along with BYU not having a player like that on the roster yet.

Please check before you post.



In the last 15 years, the only two BYU players to crack the Top 10 nationally in scoring were the almighty Jimmer and Tyler Haws. There's a reason Rose's designed play in the final minute went to Haws.



I think you're confusing "put BYU on his shoulders" with ability to create. In which case Mika will never live up to your expectations as crunch time either as Mika is a post player and therefore relies on someone else feeding him the ball.

Gunk wrote:

How many points did he score in crunch time tonight?

Haws only field goal in the 2nd half came in the final min of the game. That's pretty crunch time, isn't it? His only points in the 2nd half came in the final 5 min of the game. If you read comments from Iowa's coach he says their main strategy on defense was to ensure Haws didn't score.



Haws certainly has room for improvement, starting with his ball handling. But as Iowa's coach says, "He's a big time, big time player."

frdbtr wrote:

How many in games against Gonzaga and St mary's last year?

St Mary's - 23 pts

St Mary's - 12 pts

Gonzaga - 1 pts

Gonzaga - 19 pts



So really only one bad game in that bunch. Guess you could say the 12 points against St Mary's was also a bad game, but in that game BYU only scored 57 points - so Haws had nearly a 5th of the teams' points. Can't fault him there too much for that one.

frdbtr wrote:
Please stop criticizing my opinion in such a way that I have to disparage a very good player in order to make my point. Haws is a very good basketball player but he is not a player that can put BYU on his shoulders and carry us to the win. That is my only point, along with BYU not having a player like that on the roster yet.

Please check before you post.



In the last 15 years, the only two BYU players to crack the Top 10 nationally in scoring were the almighty Jimmer and Tyler Haws. There's a reason Rose's designed play in the final minute went to Haws.



I think you're confusing "put BYU on his shoulders" with ability to create. In which case Mika will never live up to your expectations as crunch time either as Mika is a post player and therefore relies on someone else feeding him the ball.

No, I meant guys who can carry a team on their shoulders. Or are you saying that guys like Patrick Ewing, Charles Barkley, Hakeem Olajuwon, Kareem abdul Jabbar, were unable to carry a team because they were unable to "create" their own shot without getting fed the ball into the post. Stop twisting my words. I am trying to make a simple point about BYU not having a player that can carry a team when needed and you insist on trying to make me look like I am a Ty Haws hater. Nothing could come further from the truth. I am thrilled to have the guy on BYU's team, he is very good. He is simply not a franchise type of player. Like I said in another post, he is a Scottie pippin, he is not a Michael Jordan.

And now, a word from ISU's Ejim:



http://cdn3.mocksession.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/2013-November-20-23-35-16.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

frdbtr wrote:

frdbtr wrote:

How many points did he score in crunch time tonight?

Haws only field goal in the 2nd half came in the final min of the game. That's pretty crunch time, isn't it? His only points in the 2nd half came in the final 5 min of the game. If you read comments from Iowa's coach he says their main strategy on defense was to ensure Haws didn't score.



Haws certainly has room for improvement, starting with his ball handling. But as Iowa's coach says, "He's a big time, big time player."

frdbtr wrote:

How many in games against Gonzaga and St mary's last year?

St Mary's - 23 pts

St Mary's - 12 pts

Gonzaga - 1 pts

Gonzaga - 19 pts



So really only one bad game in that bunch. Guess you could say the 12 points against St Mary's was also a bad game, but in that game BYU only scored 57 points - so Haws had nearly a 5th of the teams' points. Can't fault him there too much for that one.

frdbtr wrote:
Please stop criticizing my opinion in such a way that I have to disparage a very good player in order to make my point. Haws is a very good basketball player but he is not a player that can put BYU on his shoulders and carry us to the win. That is my only point, along with BYU not having a player like that on the roster yet.

Please check before you post.



In the last 15 years, the only two BYU players to crack the Top 10 nationally in scoring were the almighty Jimmer and Tyler Haws. There's a reason Rose's designed play in the final minute went to Haws.



I think you're confusing "put BYU on his shoulders" with ability to create. In which case Mika will never live up to your expectations as crunch time either as Mika is a post player and therefore relies on someone else feeding him the ball.

No, I meant guys who can carry a team on their shoulders. Or are you saying that guys like Patrick Ewing, Charles Barkley, Hakeem Olajuwon, Kareem abdul Jabbar, were unable to carry a team because they were unable to "create" their own shot without getting fed the ball into the post. Stop twisting my words. I am trying to make a simple point about BYU not having a player that can carry a team when needed and you insist on trying to make me look like I am a Ty Haws hater. Nothing could come further from the truth. I am thrilled to have the guy on BYU's team, he is very good. He is simply not a franchise type of player. Like I said in another post, he is a Scottie pippin, he is not a Michael Jordan.

I am not saying guys like Patrick Ewing, etc. can't carry a team on their shoulders. Quite the opposite. And that's my whole point regarding Haws.



Haws isn't a create-your-own shot player, but that doesn't mean he isn't a franchise player. You never saw Charles Barkley take it off the dribble and try to split 2 - 3 defenders, but no one would ever argue Charles wasn't a franchise player. So why can't Haws be a franchise player even though he struggles at creating his own shot?



If anything, Haws tonight was a victim of trying to do too much in crunch time. Haws wanted the ball. He wanted the last shot. Rose wanted him to take the last shot. Why? Because Haws is a franchise, clutch player.



Role players don't lead the nation in scoring.

Gunk wrote:

Gunk wrote:

How many points did he score in crunch time tonight?

Haws only field goal in the 2nd half came in the final min of the game. That's pretty crunch time, isn't it? His only points in the 2nd half came in the final 5 min of the game. If you read comments from Iowa's coach he says their main strategy on defense was to ensure Haws didn't score.



Haws certainly has room for improvement, starting with his ball handling. But as Iowa's coach says, "He's a big time, big time player."

frdbtr wrote:

How many in games against Gonzaga and St mary's last year?

St Mary's - 23 pts

St Mary's - 12 pts

Gonzaga - 1 pts

Gonzaga - 19 pts



So really only one bad game in that bunch. Guess you could say the 12 points against St Mary's was also a bad game, but in that game BYU only scored 57 points - so Haws had nearly a 5th of the teams' points. Can't fault him there too much for that one.

frdbtr wrote:
Please stop criticizing my opinion in such a way that I have to disparage a very good player in order to make my point. Haws is a very good basketball player but he is not a player that can put BYU on his shoulders and carry us to the win. That is my only point, along with BYU not having a player like that on the roster yet.

Please check before you post.



In the last 15 years, the only two BYU players to crack the Top 10 nationally in scoring were the almighty Jimmer and Tyler Haws. There's a reason Rose's designed play in the final minute went to Haws.



I think you're confusing "put BYU on his shoulders" with ability to create. In which case Mika will never live up to your expectations as crunch time either as Mika is a post player and therefore relies on someone else feeding him the ball.

No, I meant guys who can carry a team on their shoulders. Or are you saying that guys like Patrick Ewing, Charles Barkley, Hakeem Olajuwon, Kareem abdul Jabbar, were unable to carry a team because they were unable to "create" their own shot without getting fed the ball into the post. Stop twisting my words. I am trying to make a simple point about BYU not having a player that can carry a team when needed and you insist on trying to make me look like I am a Ty Haws hater. Nothing could come further from the truth. I am thrilled to have the guy on BYU's team, he is very good. He is simply not a franchise type of player. Like I said in another post, he is a Scottie pippin, he is not a Michael Jordan.

I am not saying guys like Patrick Ewing, etc. can't carry a team on their shoulders. Quite the opposite. And that's my whole point regarding Haws.



Haws isn't a create-your-own shot player, but that doesn't mean he isn't a franchise player. You never saw Charles Barkley take it off the dribble and try to split 2 - 3 defenders, but no one would ever argue Charles wasn't a franchise player. So why can't Haws be a franchise player even though he struggles at creating his own shot?



If anything, Haws tonight was a victim of trying to do too much in crunch time. Haws wanted the ball. He wanted the last shot. Rose wanted him to take the last shot. Why? Because Haws is a franchise, clutch player.



Role players don't lead the nation in scoring.

Well, since I am a Phoenix Suns fan, I did see Charles take people off the dribble. He used to pull down defensive rebounds and go coast to coast, dribbling behind his back to beat pressure and pull a dunk at the end. Charles when he was on his game was phenomenal. Haws is a very good basketball player, he is the best player on this and last years team, but he is not a carry on your shoulders type of player. Of course he wanted the ball, he is our best player. Of course Rose wanted him to have the ball, he is our best player, he got blocked. You get offended when I bring Jimmer into the conversation but the fact is, if it would have been Jimmer and not Haws who took that last shot it would have at least hit the rim, if not hit nothing but net. Haws got blocked, he is not the type of guy who can create, he is a player who gets his points off of screens and spot up shooting. This is not a criticism, it is what it is. If we had a player like that, I would think this team would be final 4 bound, but we don't so we will probably make it into the tourney and exit soon, kind of like we did every year before and after Jimmer came and left.

frdbtr wrote:

Well, since I am a Phoenix Suns fan, I did see Charles take people off the dribble. He used to pull down defensive rebounds and go coast to coast, dribbling behind his back to beat pressure and pull a dunk at the end. Charles when he was on his game was phenomenal. Haws is a very good basketball player, he is the best player on this and last years team, but he is not a carry on your shoulders type of player. Of course he wanted the ball, he is our best player. Of course Rose wanted him to have the ball, he is our best player, he got blocked. You get offended when I bring Jimmer into the conversation but the fact is, if it would have been Jimmer and not Haws who took that last shot it would have at least hit the rim, if not hit nothing but net. Haws got blocked, he is not the type of guy who can create, he is a player who gets his points off of screens and spot up shooting. This is not a criticism, it is what it is. If we had a player like that, I would think this team would be final 4 bound, but we don't so we will probably make it into the tourney and exit soon, kind of like we did every year before and after Jimmer came and left.

Of course Jimmer would have made it. Jimmer is amazing and never missed shots!



Haws is taller than Jimmer. I highly doubt Jimmer would have gotten more elevation on that shot than Haws (And don't tell me no-dunk Jimmer has more hops than Haws). Jimmer would have gotten swatted too and did get swatted plenty of times. Again, we didn't care because Jimmer is a demigod.



I simply disagree with you. You claim Haws isn't clutch, but the numbers and circumstances show otherwise.



It's similar to me not being completely enthralled with Jimmer while everyone else worships the ground he walks on. BTW, for such an amazing, clutch player why is Jimmer behind Isaiah Thomas, a 5' 9" guard taken number 60 in the same draft as Jimmer. Thomas must be more clutch than Jimmer.

The good news is, is that it is a new season and we still don't have any players on the team that can consistently hit a three point shot. So we've got that going for us.



I wish the officials had seen Rose calling for a timeout w/ 10 seconds left so he could set up a play.



I'd have perferred a reversal of the final two possessions. I'd rather Collinsworth take the 2nd to last shot when Haws was trying to beat his guy off the dribble and Haws to shot that desparation shot at the buzzer.

Don't forget Haws' buzzer beater last year.



MC went cold and dark at 8:30 remaining. It's why Rose didnt call his number.



KC was just about the only one who could get to the rim. Yes, he should have had it second to last shot. If he cant get there he draws the D and passes for an open look. Needed Mika. And Bartley also has strength and size to get to rim, just can't make FTs.

Well, at least Bartley IV isn't alone in not being bale to make free throws.