Warning: This post is total rumor mongering...

Beer goggles? Are those the thing that make ugly women look absolutely stunningly pulchritudinous?



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Thanks for visually illustrating my earlier point urroner. I need to go wash my eyes with acid now to get that image out of my head...

craigoscarson wrote:
BYU sports is going nowhere. In fact, BYU sports is the most visible arm of the church.

Which is the real problem with firing off in front of the media about how you "hate" someone/anyone. Just can't do that if you are the most visible arm of the church.

byutx wrote:
The only real reason sports continue at BYU is because of the good will of the BYU name and the recognition it brings the church. If the brethren were to think that sports did more harm than good, sports would be gone in a second. Period.

I'm afraid we both agree on this byutx. And I'll support (after a little murmuring) that decision if it happens.

KYCoug wrote:

The only real reason sports continue at BYU is because of the good will of the BYU name and the recognition it brings the church. If the brethren were to think that sports did more harm than good, sports would be gone in a second. Period.

If they are going to go to that extreme, maybe they should consider taking the basketball goals out of the church buildings. I've seen some pretty contentious basketball games over the years.



Go BYU Athletics!

L Hatton

Louisville KY

Although they haven't gone that far, I know a lot of stakes have eliminated their tournaments because of these contentious games.

craigoscarson wrote:
Speculate all you want, it's just a waste of good brain cells.

Use 'em or lose 'em. You should know that Craigo. ;)

jonnylingo wrote:

Mithrandir wrote:
I feel much better after hearing everyone's take on this. I hope my gut reaction (that this can't possibly be true) is correct.



I don't mean to be over dramatic, but I can't imagine BYU without it's sports programs. And I don't know what I'd do if BYU football were to go away. :~(



Regardless, here's to doing our part to make the rivalry more civil. While I love that Max spoke his mind (I've said as much on this board), I'm suddenly all about keeping it all above board. I have no interest in losing cougar football.

Once again, that is not how inspiration works. There is no kneejerk in inspiration. BYU could just as easily lose their sports program after the entire stadium stops to sing kumbaya in the pregame, BYU accidentally discovers the cure for AIDS while tripping over the goal line (for the 10th time) in the next Holy War; after which KWhitt and Bronco hold hands at the 50 yard line and 60,000 people sing "we thank thee o God for a prophet."



Remember, these general authorities for the most part were very very successful physicians, attornies, business men etc. They are not men of kneejerk reaction. If they saw a problem with a particular program or issue, they would address the particular issue; not cut off the entire arm in spite of a hangnail. It's preposterous to me to think that these men are so short sighted that they don't know how to make lemonade from lemons... and that they would prefer just to set the entire lemon orchard on fire...

They didn't get where they are in life by being short sighted and kneejerk thinkers.

Well, I think you are missing the point. If the brethren had been considering getting rid of it for years, than this would not be a kneejerk reaction. It would be just one more incident that convinces them that this is the direction they should go.



Not saying i buy into that or not, just didn't think you were getting the point being made. BYU sports will stick around as long as they are helping the mission of the church. if they do the opposite i can see them getting chopped in a heartbeat. That is why incidents that happened during the crowten years and with max are not things that we want to see if we love byu sports.



i still have max's back, but i can see why the church would have a problem with it.



what a shame it would be. it would be like ripping your heart out to have that happen. I don't see it happening over max's comments but i can see a set of circumstances where it might seriously be considered.

What indication does anyone have that the church has any interest in getting rid of the sports program, that they've considered this for years, or that they're up in arms about one kids comments?



Nothing but speculation and assumption.



Wake me up when they have a press conference (it'll be a long nap, trust me)

This will be forgotten soon by all but diehard BYU or Utah sportsfans. It's a non-issue.



Thank goodness the general authorities are long range thinkers, capable of forgiving the folly of a few young emotional people.



We could use a few more J Golden Kimballs right now; if in fact they're taking this small incident so seriously. It's a small issue.

declocoug wrote:

Speculate all you want, it's just a waste of good brain cells.

Use 'em or lose 'em. You should know that Craigo. ;)

Try as you might; there are many brain cells that never get used. For some, more than others. ;) :munch:

craigoscarson wrote:

We could use a few more J Golden Kimballs right now; if in fact they're taking this small incident so seriously. It's a small issue.

Says the guy who doesn't have to deal with the migraine of an issue this is becoming every year. :P

New Rumor:



I was at the U campus late last night taking delivery of the Beehive Boot when I saw LaVell Edwards walk into the Mariott Library. I was curious as to what in the heck he was doing on the enemy's campus. So I followed him as he went into the basement. He came to a blank brick wall and knocked twice on a blue tinted brick that seemed strangely out of place. A secret door opened in the wall and LaVell walked through into a long dark hallway. I waited until the coast was clear and followed behind.



When I got to the end of the dark hallway I peered around the corner and was surprised to see the individuals LaVell was talking to. Kneeling before LaVell was the U president Michael Young with Kyle Whittingham, Kalani Satake, and Aaron Roderick. Due to national security issues, I can't disclose all of what I overheard. But LaVell thanked them for their bravery for implanting themselves at the U as the Cougar Nation sleeper cell. He said the time had come for them to accomplish their end game. Next season they will strategically make questionable play calls that will cause them to lose every game. He congratulated them on setting the whole plan up to avoid suspicion by calling triple reverses, having Smithson throw passes, making a quarterback change when the team was 6-1, calling onsides kicks when up by 40, etc. LaVell told them to be on the lookout during the bowl game for the secret signal that would signal the plan of destruction to begin early with an embarassing loss to the sixth place pac 10 team.



The rest of what they talked about would blow your mind, but like I said national security issues will preclude me from sharing. However, the words Atlantis, Cold Fusion, and Area 51 were mentioned...

Wickchad84087 wrote:
New Rumor:



I was at the U campus late last night taking delivery of the Beehive Boot when I saw LaVell Edwards walk into the Mariott Library. I was curious as to what in the heck he was doing on the enemy's campus. So I followed him as he went into the basement. He came to a blank brick wall and knocked twice on a blue tinted brick that seemed strangely out of place. A secret door opened in the wall and LaVell walked through into a long dark hallway. I waited until the coast was clear and followed behind.



When I got to the end of the dark hallway I peered around the corner and was surprised to see the individuals LaVell was talking to. Kneeling before LaVell was the U president Michael Young with Kyle Whittingham, Kalani Satake, and Aaron Roderick. Due to national security issues, I can't disclose all of what I overheard. But LaVell thanked them for their bravery for implanting themselves at the U as the Cougar Nation sleeper cell. He said the time had come for them to accomplish their end game. Next season they will strategically make questionable play calls that will cause them to lose every game. He congratulated them on setting the whole plan up to avoid suspicion by calling triple reverses, having Smithson throw passes, making a quarterback change when the team was 6-1, calling onsides kicks when up by 40, etc. LaVell told them to be on the lookout during the bowl game for the secret signal that would signal the plan of destruction to begin early with an embarassing loss to the sixth place pac 10 team.



The rest of what they talked about would blow your mind, but like I said national security issues will preclude me from sharing. However, the words Atlantis, Cold Fusion, and Area 51 were mentioned...

I have an easier time believing this one.

craigoscarson wrote:

New Rumor:



I was at the U campus late last night taking delivery of the Beehive Boot when I saw LaVell Edwards walk into the Mariott Library. I was curious as to what in the heck he was doing on the enemy's campus. So I followed him as he went into the basement. He came to a blank brick wall and knocked twice on a blue tinted brick that seemed strangely out of place. A secret door opened in the wall and LaVell walked through into a long dark hallway. I waited until the coast was clear and followed behind.



When I got to the end of the dark hallway I peered around the corner and was surprised to see the individuals LaVell was talking to. Kneeling before LaVell was the U president Michael Young with Kyle Whittingham, Kalani Satake, and Aaron Roderick. Due to national security issues, I can't disclose all of what I overheard. But LaVell thanked them for their bravery for implanting themselves at the U as the Cougar Nation sleeper cell. He said the time had come for them to accomplish their end game. Next season they will strategically make questionable play calls that will cause them to lose every game. He congratulated them on setting the whole plan up to avoid suspicion by calling triple reverses, having Smithson throw passes, making a quarterback change when the team was 6-1, calling onsides kicks when up by 40, etc. LaVell told them to be on the lookout during the bowl game for the secret signal that would signal the plan of destruction to begin early with an embarassing loss to the sixth place pac 10 team.



The rest of what they talked about would blow your mind, but like I said national security issues will preclude me from sharing. However, the words Atlantis, Cold Fusion, and Area 51 were mentioned...

I have an easier time believing this one.

Were there any of the underground alien humanoid reptilians involved?

kitic77 wrote:
I hope that both the BYU and Utah administrations DO start talking about how to cool the rivalry. I think there are ways to do this without discontinuing the series. Maybe play the game at the end of September (as the conference opener) when less would be on the line. But I hope both Utah and BYU are looking at what has happened at their stadiums and what they can do to better protect the fans from further escalating the emnity.

I haven't read the entire thread so maybe someone else mentioned this suggestion already but I agree with Kitic. What about joining the FL State/Miami idea and doing it on Labor Day and the season opener for both teams. perhaps the hype would be too high but then again it may not. Just musings...



Go Cougs!!!

J. Child

Ammon, ID

BYU won't be dumping sports because of the comments of Hall. If they were going to stop sports they had a lot better reason during the Crowton years when there were highly visable criminal happenings, so if the Church didn't stop sports at that time, they certainly won't drop them now.



I know a lot of the GA's are big sport fans, remember when they renamed the football stadium to LES and President Hinckly gave the team a pregame pep talk. I know President Monson is a big sports fan and he attends Jazz games where I know he hears a lot worse than what Max said.

If BYU athletics are seen as a missionary tool they've done well. Just off the top of my head I can think of a few people who converted to the church who played athletics at BYU. Curtis Brown, Ty Detmer, Brian McDonald, and Mike Hall? I'm sure there are a lot more too. Also as others have mentioned, every time BYU plays on national tv they talk about the church and our missionaries. I'm sure that has produced a lot of good interest.



Just like the church isn't going to stop sending out 19-25 year old missionaries for sometimes making mistakes and even some big mistakes, BYU won't cut athletics because of a few blunders. They will most definitely talk about how to improve things, but they won't cut out athletics.

Short_Change wrote:
If BYU athletics are seen as a missionary tool they've done well. Just off the top of my head I can think of a few people who converted to the church who played athletics at BYU. Curtis Brown, Ty Detmer, Brian McDonald, and Mike Hall? I'm sure there are a lot more too. Also as others have mentioned, every time BYU plays on national tv they talk about the church and our missionaries. I'm sure that has produced a lot of good interest.



Just like the church isn't going to stop sending out 19-25 year old missionaries for sometimes making mistakes and even some big mistakes, BYU won't cut athletics because of a few blunders. They will most definitely talk about how to improve things, but they won't cut out athletics.

The arguement about missionaries is the best one yet. I'm sure missionaries have done far greater damage, and more often then BYU Athletics.

Short_Change wrote:
If BYU athletics are seen as a missionary tool they've done well. Just off the top of my head I can think of a few people who converted to the church who played athletics at BYU. Curtis Brown, Ty Detmer, Brian McDonald, and Mike Hall? I'm sure there are a lot more too. Also as others have mentioned, every time BYU plays on national tv they talk about the church and our missionaries. I'm sure that has produced a lot of good interest.



Just like the church isn't going to stop sending out 19-25 year old missionaries for sometimes making mistakes and even some big mistakes, BYU won't cut athletics because of a few blunders. They will most definitely talk about how to improve things, but they won't cut out athletics.

Post of the day...



BYU athletics does much more good than it does harm.. it's not even close.



An entire portion of Eastern Europe has Kresimir Cosic to thank for being the pioneer that brought them the gospel. That would never have happened without BYU sports.



Even with all the misunderstandings about missionaries, nowhere is the word "mission" spoken more by the general public than when BYU athletics are discussed (outside of the military ;) ).



Travis Hansen spent a great deal of his productive European career in Russia, as a hero to kids out there. Having spent my mission in Bulgaria (and having plenty of friends that served in Russia, including Jeremiah Hartsock) I can tell you that we're look at like 3 headed aliens out there. But guys like Hansen do wonders so make us mainstream enough that at least we're not the targets of drunk mafia members trying to smash our heads in with a pipe wrench (this really happened to a kid from my hometown; and yes they smashed his head.)



Vai Sikahema served his mission in South Dakota, at a time when my father worked for the Governor there. Besides my own family relations, no one had a bigger impact on my BYU fandom than Vai. I was an impressionable 6-7 yr old at the time, and I hung all over the guy for several months. He also had a big impact on the native americans on the reservations there.



Everyone here has many stories that make Max Hallls controversial opinion seem quite inconsequential...



BYU sports isn't going anywhere. Onto the next ridiculous rumor.

I couldn't get past page two of this nonsense.



In the 80s BYU had Jim McMahon -- No suspension of BYU sports.

In the 00s BYU had a serious rape scandal -- No suspension of BYU sports.



Why do you think Max Hall popping off would bring the axe down?



Now, the beer ponchos and goggles. That was seriously funny. Someone should really market those for the game next year. Kind of a tongue in cheek mea culpa.

craigoscarson wrote:

If BYU athletics are seen as a missionary tool they've done well. Just off the top of my head I can think of a few people who converted to the church who played athletics at BYU. Curtis Brown, Ty Detmer, Brian McDonald, and Mike Hall? I'm sure there are a lot more too. Also as others have mentioned, every time BYU plays on national tv they talk about the church and our missionaries. I'm sure that has produced a lot of good interest.



Just like the church isn't going to stop sending out 19-25 year old missionaries for sometimes making mistakes and even some big mistakes, BYU won't cut athletics because of a few blunders. They will most definitely talk about how to improve things, but they won't cut out athletics.

Post of the day...



BYU athletics does much more good than it does harm.. it's not even close.



An entire portion of Eastern Europe has Kresimir Cosic to thank for being the pioneer that brought them the gospel. That would never have happened without BYU sports.



Even with all the misunderstandings about missionaries, nowhere is the word "mission" spoken more by the general public than when BYU athletics are discussed (outside of the military ;) ).



Travis Hansen spent a great deal of his productive European career in Russia, as a hero to kids out there. Having spent my mission in Bulgaria (and having plenty of friends that served in Russia, including Jeremiah Hartsock) I can tell you that we're look at like 3 headed aliens out there. But guys like Hansen do wonders so make us mainstream enough that at least we're not the targets of drunk mafia members trying to smash our heads in with a pipe wrench (this really happened to a kid from my hometown; and yes they smashed his head.)



Vai Sikahema served his mission in South Dakota, at a time when my father worked for the Governor there. Besides my own family relations, no one had a bigger impact on my BYU fandom than Vai. I was an impressionable 6-7 yr old at the time, and I hung all over the guy for several months. He also had a big impact on the native americans on the reservations there.



Everyone here has many stories that make Max Hallls controversial opinion seem quite inconsequential...



BYU sports isn't going anywhere. Onto the next ridiculous rumor.

Good point on Cosic, I had forgot about him. The cool thing is that all these stories are just a few drops in the bucket.

Sammich wrote:

Why should someone get to go to a university for free just because they are better at running/jumping/throwing than the next kid? Especially when the running/jumping/throwing that the kid will be doing while at the university will take him/her away from his/her studies for days at a time thus necessitating tutors etc.. Serious students can hack it but serious students could do a lot better if they could focus on their studies. Not serious students focus on their sports, waste their professors/tutors time and generally glom off of the university.

I hate this argument. I had a scholarship as an animation major and the same could be asked about me:



"Why should someone get to go to school for free just because they are better at drawing/painting than the next kid? All that drawing in the end is just taking away from more 'useful' academic pursuits. And what good does that person do for society once he's learned those skills, just entertain people?"



How far do you take this argument? Do you eliminate theatre because it isn't producing something poor people can eat? Do you get rid of marching bands since only 1% of band members go on to play professionally and for the rest it's just taking away from other 'valuable' schoolwork? Universities and their many disciplines exist for a lot of reasons, and individuals learn more valuable life lessons from something like football than you would think. And let's be honest, a lot of kids playing football might not even BE in college if they didn't have scholarships, and they're going to absorb something good while they're there, at least at BYU where moral and academic standards are relatively high for athletes.

I see your point but I disagree with you on a couple of points. Yes there are extra-curricular activities that are worthwhile that take time away from studying. Yes football players learn "life-lessons" while they play football. My problem with IC sports is that they have become an industry and the most visible part of nearly any university. The Football HC is almost always the highest paid university employee, the "student"-athletes (admittedly with notable exceptions) get dragged through school by their tutors just so they can maintain eligibility and play for alma mater on Saturday. Call me old-fashioned but the University is about having the "life-lessons" as a by-product of sacrificing for the studies. If a kid isn't going to go to college if he can't play football there, I don't think he should be going to college, give the scholarship to the poor kid next door who's not fast but would sell his soul for the chance to go to a decent school.