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Warning: This post is total rumor mongering...

by Mithrandir · 12/3/2009

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wazzucoug97
I would add that there is also missionary work/positive exposure beyond graduation. I am a huge Miami Dolphins fan, and during the two short years John Beck was on the team I read several articles in local Florida papers that discussed his mission, lifestyle, etc. I am sure this is a trend that follows many BYU athletes into the ranks of various professional sports.
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wazzucoug97
I also want to add that this has been a most amusing thread.... thanks for getting me through the work day with a chuckle :lol:
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BerliNY
Italics wrote:
Why should someone get to go to a university for free just because they are better at running/jumping/throwing than the next kid? Especially when the running/jumping/throwing that the kid will be doing while at the university will take him/her away from his/her studies for days at a time thus necessitating tutors etc.


A few reasons:



- Schools need money. Money is priority. No money = crappy facilities = crappy professors = crappy quality students = crappy education. Schools. Need. Cash. Sports brings in tons of it.



- Running/jumping/throwing is a talent, and who is anyone to argue that painting pictures and studying social patterns is more important than physical fitness or entertainment?



- America is fat enough already. There aren't ENOUGH kids nowadays who have the discipline to keep themselves in shape. Physical health - mental health.



- Many student athletes do well in school. It doesn't require having a brain to say "oh, well, uhh, that's because the teachers just give them good grades." But actually, these kids are getting good grades because they are disciplined, and have their sport as motivation for keeping their grades.



- School's have a right to do what they want with their own money. BYU realizes the importance of bringing in the $$$, I don't care how much they act like they aren't interested in money, they have to be.


Money makes the world go round but if there's one place on earth that should ( and should be able to) resist selling out to $$$ shouldn't it be the University? If there's enough demand for it should college football actually be more like a minor-league NFL?



America is fat but I think you could make strong arguments that football players (think offensive linemen) and football culture (think tailgating, couch potato-ing, and 65,000 people sitting down for 4 hours on a Saturday afternoon) actually hurt more than they help the obesity epidemic.



I see a clear distinction between painting/sociology and IC sports. Yes Arts/Letters make up a big part of a well-rounded undergrad education and I even think PE classes are a good idea but IC sports aren't about physical fitness (the students who really need some help on the physical fitness front aren't even allowed to use the student-athletes' facilities/resources), they are about physical competition which is fine, it's just not education at that point. As for the entertainment argument, I think it's interesting, maybe we could get the students themselves to take over some of the AD's responsibilities and do some sports marketing as well.



Like a said before, I really don't want to get rid of BYU Athletics, I just see a bunch of inconsistencies that I wish didn't have to exist.
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Italics
declocoug wrote:
BYU sports is going nowhere. In fact, BYU sports is the most visible arm of the church.


Which is the real problem with firing off in front of the media about how you "hate" someone/anyone. Just can't do that if you are the most visible arm of the church.


It'd be awful if people actually thought that mormons were *gasp* HUMAN, and even now and then.... sin!!! *GASP!*
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Italics
jonnylingo wrote:



Well, I think you are missing the point. If the brethren had been considering getting rid of it for years, than this would not be a kneejerk reaction. It would be just one more incident that convinces them that this is the direction they should go.



Not saying i buy into that or not, just didn't think you were getting the point being made. BYU sports will stick around as long as they are helping the mission of the church. if they do the opposite i can see them getting chopped in a heartbeat. That is why incidents that happened during the crowten years and with max are not things that we want to see if we love byu sports.



i still have max's back, but i can see why the church would have a problem with it.



what a shame it would be. it would be like ripping your heart out to have that happen. I don't see it happening over max's comments but i can see a set of circumstances where it might seriously be considered.


I hope and pray that the GA's are more intelligent than to think Max's comments override all of the good BYU sports has done for the players and students.
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northerncougar
First let me establish my credentials: I served a mission, attended BYU, served in an elders quorum presidency, twice, served as a counselor in the bishopric, served as Young Men's president, served as part of a High Priests group leadership, I am currently serving on the high council in our stake, my father-in-law served as a mission president in Brazil, twice, and a member of the Quorum of the Twelve performing the sealing of my wife and I in the Salt Lake Temple. Okay.



Well, I don't mean to pile on, but I received a call from a very important person in the church tonight (as you can see by the first paragraph that I am very important and obviously in the know) and he told me the following:



1. Early morning seminary outside of Utah is going to be cancelled because some students have fallen asleep in school from time to time.

2. Sunday School will be discontinued at the end of 2009 because a certain unnamed Gospel Doctrine teacher in the Pleasant Grove 20873rd ward mentioned the Adam God Theory once.

3. Elders Quorums will meet only on the last day of the month so we can have at least 50% home teaching.

4. High Priest groups will continue as they are currently, as most of them have full knowledge of all the mysteries of the gospel.

5. The Relief Society has been cancelled because the massive drain on church funds for table cloth's and centerpieces has caused financial panic in Salt Lake.

6. The Young Men's organization is no longer recognized, because, well, anyone who has served there knows that the word organization is used in the loosest possible terms. The reality is that no one will really notice anyway.



I swear all of these are true. Oh, and I just found out that Max sacrifices puppies before each game!
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Italics
northerncougar wrote:



Oh, and I just found out that Max sacrifices puppies before each game!


I'm calling BS
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snoscythe
Italics wrote:



Oh, and I just found out that Max sacrifices puppies before each game!


I'm calling BS


Agreed. We all know he is very delicate with the tools, so they suffer for a long while, but they don't die until AFTER the game.
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Italics
snoscythe wrote:
northerncougar wrote:



Oh, and I just found out that Max sacrifices puppies before each game!


I'm calling BS


Agreed. We all know he is very delicate with the tools, so they suffer for a long while, but they don't die until AFTER the game.


Well that explains the Micheal Vick jersey I saw Hall sporting at Wal-mart...
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cougdoc
I'm not sure if the twenty minutes I spent reading this thread was the most entertaining part of my day or a complete waste of time. I agree that BYU would never cut athletics because of what Max said or a scuffle at a ballgame. Heck, we had a flat-out brawl during a stake BB game when I was 14 that sent a boy to the hospital. They suspended our game, but played the next one right on schedule. If McMahon and the gang rape didn't shut things down, this won't. The firestorm Max caused is confined to fans of the two teams and the Wasatch front. There are zero people along the Wasatch front who were considering baptism but are anti-LDS now because of his comments. But maybe this is the next straw on the camel's back. How about this theory. The football program pays the majority of the bills for the athletic department. Football is the highest profile sport, and as such generates the most good, missionary-wise, and the most controversy when the players misbehave. I could see a time when that balance shifts to the bad, and BYU eliminates just the football program. The remaining sports would need subsidizing, either by the school or by boosters, but the bill would be much, much smaller than it is currently. Many of the traditionally Christian institutions around the country have eliminated football or gone to lower divisions (DePaul, Providence, St. Johns, Seton Hall, Georgetown, etc). The decision would be unpopular, but as noted by others in this thread, Church decisions are never based on, and rarely mirror, what is popular.
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HoosierCougar
I think someone (and by someone, I mean a person smarter than I) should conduct an analysis of the inane prattle that occurs when there's no game the next week (BYE week, after the season, pre-bowl, etc.)



I bet someone with time on their hands could have a really interesting time identifying the trends, nuances, drivers, etc.
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stuckinbig10country
People keep mentioning all the $$$ that the sports programs bring to BYU. Unless the university gets a cut from the shirts and other gear sold, they get no money from the athletic department. The athletic department gets no money from the church/university. BYU, as a private school, is unique in that the school does not rely heavily on the athletic programs to pay any of the school bills.



It would not cost the church/university a dime if sports were discontinued at BYU.



Do I think that this incident, in and of itself, would shut down the sports programs at BYU? No. However, as things begin to stack up, it is becoming more likely that it will happen in the future. This year alone there have been 3 alcohol incidents around the football team (Van Noy, the drinking party during the major recruiting weekend, and Shiloh Teo). I believe that since the dark days at the end of the Crowton Era, the schools athletic department has been under extreme scrutiny. Most of the teams have new head coaches, with some of the people that were let go being very successful while at the school. There are little things that keep piling up, and eventually its just going to be too much.



I don't think the rivalry will be cancelled. I don't think that the bowl game will be the last game ever in BYU history. I do think over the next 12 to 20 years there will be further changes in the athletic department, and that may include the end of the sports programs, just because the church/school may want to go in a different direction.



Its obvious that meetings were held. Attorneys were contacted. I think the results will end up being that during the rivalry games more security will be in place, less access to the players for the media, even after games, and some additional internal policies that we may never hear of.
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Italics
Hold it... what do the drinking incidents have to do with anything? Are you saying that if there were no athletics program that there would be less drinking and honor code infringements?

Hmm, gotta disagree with that.
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mormonrasta
declocoug wrote:
BYU sports is going nowhere. In fact, BYU sports is the most visible arm of the church.


Which is the real problem with firing off in front of the media about how you "hate" someone/anyone. Just can't do that if you are the most visible arm of the church.


Thank goodness BYU sports isn't the most visible arm of the church, the Mormon Tabernacle Choir is.
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Guest
mormonrasta wrote:
craigoscarson wrote:
BYU sports is going nowhere. In fact, BYU sports is the most visible arm of the church.


Which is the real problem with firing off in front of the media about how you "hate" someone/anyone. Just can't do that if you are the most visible arm of the church.


Thank goodness BYU sports isn't the most visible arm of the church, the Mormon Tabernacle Choir is.


And you do NOT want to know about the HC violations that go on there! But you all know what happens when a bunch of musicians get out on the road...
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wazzucoug97
mormonrasta wrote:
craigoscarson wrote:
BYU sports is going nowhere. In fact, BYU sports is the most visible arm of the church.


Which is the real problem with firing off in front of the media about how you "hate" someone/anyone. Just can't do that if you are the most visible arm of the church.


Thank goodness BYU sports isn't the most visible arm of the church, the Mormon Tabernacle Choir is.


Can you imagine the choir director going off on how much he "hates" the Boston Pops.... :lol:
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CougarClaw
I went to a BYU devotional years ago that suddenly has more relevance than it did before. Naturally I can't remember the speaker, but I want to say is was President Hinckley, perhaps before he was prophet.



He was trying to emphasize why getting married at BYU was so important and he referenced high-level discussions years ago about dissolving BYU since it was such a large financial line item in the church's budget. He mentioned that every single program could be replaced and every benefit moved to other venues (i.e. beef up the institute programs at other universities) except for the providing a venue for young men and women to meet on campus. (Before y'all roll your eyes I didn't get married at BYU)



All stereotypes aside, I think it does give some insight to what goes on in those meetings when it comes to meeting the missions of the church. I don't recall sports coming up in that devotional. Just more data points for the discussion...
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Mars
CougarClaw wrote:
He was trying to emphasize why getting married at BYU was so important and he referenced high-level discussions years ago about dissolving BYU since it was such a large financial line item in the church's budget. He mentioned that every single program could be replaced and every benefit moved to other venues (i.e. beef up the institute programs at other universities) except for the providing a venue for young men and women to meet on campus. (Before y'all roll your eyes I didn't get married at BYU)

I did.
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Florwood
wazzucoug97 wrote:
declocoug wrote:
BYU sports is going nowhere. In fact, BYU sports is the most visible arm of the church.


Which is the real problem with firing off in front of the media about how you "hate" someone/anyone. Just can't do that if you are the most visible arm of the church.


Thank goodness BYU sports isn't the most visible arm of the church, the Mormon Tabernacle Choir is.


Can you imagine the choir director going off on how much he "hates" the Boston Pops.... :lol:


And the Grammys--the music world's equivalent of the BCS...
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cougdoc
[quote=And the Grammys--the music world's equivalent of the BCS...[/quote]



Except that the Tab Choir has won a Grammy, proving once again that nothing is as exclusionary and anti-American as the BCS.
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