BYU Free Throw Shooting Myths

Cougarbib wrote:
Gonzaga shoots 69.1% FT. Exactly what BYU shoots.



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Actually it's 70.7%, and they only attempt 20.7 FT/game as opposed to BYU who attempts 30.7 FT/game

Much less impact. BYU is shooting more free throws than just about everybody (7th in the country) that's why it's so much more critical that we shoot a higher percentage, it's part of our game. To play a style of offense that gets our players to the line so frequently, only to miss so often is a huge fail by the coaches and players.

Teams are lucky BYU isn't a better FT shooting team.

BYULV wrote:

Gonzaga shoots 69.1% FT. Exactly what BYU shoots.



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Actually it's 70.7%, and they only attempt 20.7 FT/game as opposed to BYU who attempts 30.7 FT/game

Much less impact. BYU is shooting more free throws than just about everybody (7th in the country) that's why it's so much more critical that we shoot a higher percentage, it's part of our game. To play a style of offense that gets our players to the line so frequently, only to miss so often is a huge fail by the coaches and players.

CBS Sports showed them at 69.1% right before they played us. It varies week to week. Home vs Away affects it. And, yes BYU gets to the FT line much more often than almost all of our opponents.



Ironically, BYU fans bemoan our poor defense, and yet we lead the nation in scoring - partly because opposing defenses are fouling us to try to stop our scoring and in spite of our ordinary, average, uninspiring FT %, we usually outscore our opponents from the FT line.



I have never even suggested that FT shooting is not important. It is just not the only important thing.



Maybe BYU should start fouling some of these sharp shooting opponents with low FG% a little more odten. Foul player A before player B gets time to jack an uncontested 3.



My point is this - often the guys shooting 80% on free throws at BYU have been unathletic guys who do not do a lot of other things well. Trade-offs. BYU went after more athleticism - Bartley, Collinsworth, Mika, Carlino, Winder - and the best two FT shooters of that bunch are unspectacular and the others are poor.



Tradeoffs.



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SpiffCoug wrote:
Teams are lucky BYU isn't a better FT shooting team.

This. An extra 7 or 8% at the line would have delivered 60 points or so already this season.



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Cougarbib wrote:

Teams are lucky BYU isn't a better FT shooting team.

This. An extra 7 or 8% at the line would have delivered 60 points or so already this season.



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Of course, if BYU were a better FT shooting teams likely wouldn't be as willing to foul us as they are. BYU's poor FT is probably a contributing factor to the high number of FTs that we do shoot.

SpiffCoug wrote:

SpiffCoug wrote:
Teams are lucky BYU isn't a better FT shooting team.

This. An extra 7 or 8% at the line would have delivered 60 points or so already this season.



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Of course, if BYU were a better FT shooting teams likely wouldn't be as willing to foul us as they are. BYU's poor FT is probably a contributing factor to the high number of FTs that we do shoot.

Most likely true - but the we make 47% of those field goal opportunities when they stop hacking us.



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To clarify your op, There is no FT myth. I'm not sure where anyone has ever compared our FT shooting % to our opponents, until this thread. The argument and fact "bemoaned" by fans is that BYU's FT shooting is subpar by pretty much everyone's standards and by simply being average we could be a really good team. 1-2 FT makes in losses to Iowa St, Oregon and Portland and we are in everyone's tournament bracket talk.

BYULV wrote:
To clarify your op, There is no FT myth. I'm not sure where anyone has ever compared our FT shooting % to our opponents, until this thread. The argument and fact "bemoaned" by fans is that BYU's FT shooting is subpar by pretty much everyone's standards and by simply being average we could be a really good team. 1-2 FT makes in losses to Iowa St, Oregon and Portland and we are in everyone's tournament bracket talk.

This is one of the myths right here - compared to our opponents, we are average. Someone else claimed that the % for all 300÷ teams is 1 or 2% higher. I would contend that even then, if you adjust for all of our away games, we are still average.



The 2nd myth is that if we shot 1 or 2 % higher, those 5 or 10 makes would magically show up at crunch time in our closest games on the ROAD. I would argue that is when they would be least likely to show up. FT shooting is about confidence.



The main myth I was addressing was comments by some posters that our free throw shooting was so horrible that we are not even a D1 FT shooting team. Reference the thread about FT shooting and rebounding. Yeah rebounding. We out rebound most of our opponents. Another myth busted. Even vs Portland, we got nearly as many offensive rebounds as they got.



If BYU was shooting 77%, FTs would show up in crunch time even on the road.



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70.2. 68.1



Iowa State shoots 70.2 and their opponents shoot 68.1%.



They play in The Big 12.



Yes. They are shooting 1% better than BYU. BYU is shooting 1% better than the average ISU opponent.



This is why I keep saying BYU is average and this is why BYU would need to be well above average to offset our other deficiencies enough to beat ranked teams - especially on the road.



FTs are very important. BYU is not a good FT shooting team. BYU is very average.



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83.1 78.7



Oregon shoots 83.1% FT vs PAC opponents. Those opponents ate averaging 78.7%.



Apparently PAC is an outstanding FT shooting conference compared to Big 12.



Ironically, those torrid FT shooting Ducks, the ones out shooting their PAC opponents by nearly 5%, are 2-6 in league play during that stretch. They beat Utah by 2 points in OT soon after beating BYU. Also beat WSU. Lost all the other games.



League play can be a killer.



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71.3 73.4



In WCC play, BYU did bump up to 70%. In fact, BYU is shooting 71.3% in WCC play.



WCC opponents have out shot BYU by 2.1 points at 73.4%.



74.8 68.6



Portland is a decent FT shooting team. They shoot 74.8. Decent. Not elite. Their opponents shoot 68.6% vs them. BYU shoots 69.1% for the season and 71.3% in WCC play. BYU is average - once again.



This brings me to a few conclusions



1. Shooting 70% did not suddenly have us looking NBA Tournament ready. It did not beat Portland in triple OT. 71% did not do that. 77% probably would have beaten Portland.



2. PAC and WCC - especially PAC - shoot FTs better than typical teams further east. So, I must admit, BYU seems well below average compared to PAC and a little below average compared to WCC. I did not research MWC, but would guess that it is also higher. Conclusion, relative to teams west of Colorado - BYU is a below average FT shooting team.



3. For FT makes to show up at crunch time, BYU would need to shoot about 77% like average PAC.



4. Even stellar FT shooting teams like Oregon lose a lot of games. FT shooting is far from being the only thing that matters.



5. Our FT shooting is trending up. Almost every player is shooting the better in WCC play vs total season. Playing more home games should continue that trend. We shot over 72% Thursday. Average WCC type numbers.



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75.3 65.6



I had to go look. Utah is a good FT shooting team. They shoot 75.3% vs 65.6% for their opponents. BYU shoots way above average compared to other U opponents. PAC shoots pretty well, so we shoot incredible compared to U non-conference opponents.



In fact, U season FT % is below average compared to PAC.



75% should win a lot of games. It did vs a horrible NC schedule.



In PAC vs real opponents, it has not been enough. U is 3-5 in PAC. They win at home but lose on the road like most teams.



73.7 72.2

USU shoots 73.7 Vs 72.2 for their opponents. Slightly above average. That has earned them a whopping 2 wins in MWC play on a 4-game skid hoping to turn that around on the road at Wyoming.



USU took #7 SDSU to OT the other night. Lost. 73.7% failed to deliver that 1 extra point in crunch time. 77% probably would have.



BYU is below average FT shooting in state vs U and USU. Unfortunately, U plays really well in SLC. BYU loses on the road. We beat USU on a relatively neutral court.



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Bib, this myth you are perpetrating is a myth.



Let's face it, your point is that this team, while not a "terrible" FT shooting team, can't count on FT shooting to win or keep them in games. And I agree that this team has a lot more to work on than merely FT shooting. With a better FG%, better defense, less turnovers and forced shots in crunch situations, this team could have a VERY good record even with the FT shooting.



BUT.... FT shooting seems to be the most frustrating part since about 9/10 people on this forum could hit 7/10 FTs on bad days.

I still don't see why we are comparing our FT % to our competition. Free throws are made or missed by our players. Maybe teams can do some psych out move to make us miss, but it all sits on the shooters shoulders to make them.

Not sure why some people have a hard time admitting we stink at free throw shooting and that it has cost us games this year.

I think we need tipoff so we can put this topic to rest.

BroncoBot wrote:
Bib, this myth you are perpetrating is a myth.



Let's face it, your point is that this team, while not a "terrible" FT shooting team, can't count on FT shooting to win or keep them in games. And I agree that this team has a lot more to work on than merely FT shooting. With a better FG%, better defense, less turnovers and forced shots in crunch situations, this team could have a VERY good record even with the FT shooting.



BUT.... FT shooting seems to be the most frustrating part since about 9/10 people on this forum could hit 7/10 FTs on bad days.

Agree with most of that.



BUT.... 9/10 people on this forum need to try shooting those free throws on the road when tired with screaming fans waving things behind the basket on national TV with the game, Conference, and post season on the line. With their girl friend watching. It affects confidence. For a bunch of mostly white, barely athletic players - free throw shooting has been a disappointment.



Much has been said about having only 2 great plus one decent FT shooter and several poor ones. The focus of those comments is that they are easy to pick on. That is true. And they have missed some key ones. But there are two sides to that coin. We have 20th that are money and we can work at getting them to the line. They have won some. If each player shot 69.1%, same average but no opportunity for opposing coaches to battle our coaches trying to get the right or wrong guys to the line.



too bad we do not average 77%. That would start to differentiate BYU.



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BroncoBot wrote:
Bib, this myth you are perpetrating is a myth.



Let's face it, your point is that this team, while not a "terrible" FT shooting team, can't count on FT shooting to win or keep them in games. And I agree that this team has a lot more to work on than merely FT shooting. With a better FG%, better defense, less turnovers and forced shots in crunch situations, this team could have a VERY good record even with the FT shooting.



BUT.... FT shooting seems to be the most frustrating part since about 9/10 people on this forum could hit 7/10 FTs on bad days.

That's a big part of it, we all know how to shoot free throws. I can see having more difficulty shooting as you get tired, but that's when preparation shines through. If you are fundamentally sound shooting FT and you have a set routine, fatigue shouldn't be an issue. The only thing that should make these guys miss their free throws is a mental distraction or poor preparation - both things they have control over. Maybe that's why missing free throws is so frustrating.

BYULV wrote:
I still don't see why we are comparing our FT % to our competition. Free throws are made or missed by our players. Maybe teams can do some psych out move to make us miss, but it all sits on the shooters shoulders to make them.

Not sure why some people have a hard time admitting we stink at free throw shooting and that it has cost us games this year.

I think we need tipoff so we can put this topic to rest.

Semantics. Maybe. But, if 70% stinks. So be it. Therefore on average, most of our opponents stink, too. Gonzaga stinks it up according to this definition.



I will agree that Bartley, Austin, Mika, Sharp, and Collinsworth stink at free throw shooting - because they do.



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Several have posted that Dave Rose has failed to get the right people handling the ball at crunch time and that if KC were benched at those times - problem solved. Not really. Haws and Halford are money. MC is average - but worse when tired or having an off night confidence wise. Maybe Winder - though very unproven. There is no better 5th choice than KC - unfortunately.



Further, by far, Tyler Haws is getting to the line more than anyone else. Halford's FT attempts are increasing now that he is on the floor. MC gets his share. KC gets there a ton. This is why fans criticism him the most. He is not worse than Mika, Austin, Sharp, and Bartley - he just gets to the line more than twice as often - so you see him missing a lot of shots. If he was off the floor, you would see Mika, Austin, Sharp, or Bartley missing them. Especially Bartley. Terrible FT shooter.



If BY had one more go to guy at the line, sure take KC out.



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Ok, here's the real myth regarding FT shooting: BYU is not as good at shooting FTs as their 69% would imply. Take Tyler Haws out of the equation and the rest of the team shoots . . . 59%. If 69% was borderline average, 59% is downright pathetic.

Bravo BYULV, Spot on. And that is why all the frustration with KC, he gets to the FT line a TON as bib has mentioned. When you get to the line that much, and miss as much as he does, it's called a liability.