Are we finally done with the Halford experiement?

Cougs_Rule wrote:

mizzoucoug wrote:
It is very telling about our team that we still don't know who the starting PG should be. That's just sad. Any good tourney team has had this figured out from day one and here we are looking at Plan C one week before the conference tourney. LOL amazing that we are still alive.

Scarier still...who is going to run point next year?



This season is what it is but I certainly hope Rose walks away realizing he needs a PG. KC is not a PG and while he provides a good band-aid to a problem, KC isn't a long term fix. KC's talents and abilities would be better utilized at the 3 or 4. If KC has aspirations of playing at the next level, he needs to have a long talk with Rose because it's not going to be as a PG and likely won't be as a 2 either.



As much as many don't like MC as a starter, MC never should have lost his starting spot or certainly should have been restored to it after a few games.



We're headed into crunch time without a rudder.

"Never should have lost his starting spot"????? Mr Short-term memory much?

But yes, BYU needs a true PG--but when was the last time BYU had a true PG? Don't think BYU can plan on it.

I have an excellent memory. I didn't think at the time MC should have lost his starting spot, at least not permanently, and think he should be starting now.



So sue me... :roll:

Sorry for the snark.

He was a total train wreck and quite frankly responsible for two WCC conf losses to bottom dwellers. He was out of control and refused to respond to coaching. Rosé waited too long to make that change. Maybe an argument could be made for him starting again. But he is like a chihuahua who thinks he's a Doberman. He just refused to believe that he wasn't and couldnt be Jimmer. And maybe, just maybe if he kept surreptitiously cranking up 3s he could finally crank up his NPOY career. Granted, he probably saved the SMC game and maybe even a few others. But he s not a starter and not really even a closer ( tho he does finish most games) he is more like a middle reliever. He adds an important spark off the bench. But he was a wreck as a starter. Thus, enter Halford and probably Winder. But that will be short lived. Again, I hope Rose figures out that matchups matter. There is no solid 2. And no ideal PG. but MC ain't the answer.

The kid can't shoot. He needs to be the guy who comes in and can't miss when open. But his shot is not consistent enough to give him minutes. Winder gets his minutes from her on out.

Does the Winder experiment now begin?

snoscythe wrote:
Does the Winder experiment now begin?

Absolutely

snoscythe wrote:
Does the Winder experiment now begin?

Yes, please.

While is working. YES. now teams will prep for him also. But anybody who hits 10-10 FTs and can get to the rim,,,,,,,,,,COULD IT BE THAT BYU FIALLY HAS A WINNING STARTING LINEUP adits only what.......last game of season? Fast learners.

I hope we aren't done with Halford. He is one of our best man defenders, and this season has proven that relying heavily on our zone defense normally leads to a loss. I think that you go with the hot hand in Winder, but we are losing a lot in defense with Winder in over Halford.

Anyone who thinks Halford is a good defender didn't watch the Pacific, St. Mary's, or Gonzaga games. He is at best the 2nd worst perimeter defender, and the only one possibly worse is the leading scorer in the WCC.



Halford frantic movements give the impression he's playing defense. I will give him credit for trying hard.



Almost all of his minutes should go to Winder. Just a better athlete and overall player.



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stuckinbig10country wrote:
Anyone who thinks Halford is a good defender didn't watch the Pacific, St. Mary's, or Gonzaga games. He is at best the 2nd worst perimeter defender, and the only one possibly worse is the leading scorer in the WCC.



Halford frantic movements give the impression he's playing defense. I will give him credit for trying hard.



Almost all of his minutes should go to Winder. Just a better athlete and overall player.



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Ironically, anyone who thinks Halford is a good defender may have watched the previous San Diego game. Hard to dismiss the defensive job that night. It will be interesting to see if Halford gets many minutes. Winder is playing better now. That was not always the case. He is 12-12 streak on free throws now. He was mid 60s before that. Nobody plays 40 minutes. 30 minutes is the norm. Who do you think should play while he rests? It is ironic that you keep talking about giving Halford minutes to Winder. Winder won the starting job. Halford is getting greatly reduced minutes.



It will take fresh legs to dog Dee all night on his home court. Both Winder and Halford will contribute.



Winder and MC certainly did not shut down the Portland guards last night.



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Stuck



It finally hit me what seems so odd about this thread - the title. Halford was not an experiment.



Carlino was the experiment at the 2. That experiment crashed and burned.



Before the ill-fated Carlino experiment at the 2, Carlino was struggling badly at the 1, and the 2 was being handled by committee. We had a poor performing 1 and 2 by committee and musical chairs and magic shuffle - card trick of sorts. Nobody established them self at either position.



All experimentation has been Carlino. Starting PG. Hot and cold then deep freeze. Next experiment KC at the point with MC starting at the 2 instead of the committee. Short lived. Blew up. Carlino's heart was not in it. Next experiment - Carlino as back-up PG coming off the bench. It worked. It is still working.



It should be clear that MC coming off the bench has absolutely nothing to do with who is playing the 2. Halford. Winder. Committee. Does not matter. MC is the PG coming off the bench. He is playing really well right now. Getting starter minutes. See Starters / Minutes thread.



BYU does not have a true PG. So we have a PG experiment or band-aid. If Carlino keeps playing under control and as game planned - he will continue to get starter minutes.



As for the 2 - Winder was inconsistent early. He got a good look early. Halford got a look. Musical chairs involving Bartley got a look. Players out of natural position. It all got a look. After the Carlino experiment failed, Halford got the start and had the hot hand - for 2 games. After that his minutes started to drop. Winder's minutes started to increase. Winder is getting starter minutes now.



It is actually more positive than negative that BYU can keep guys fresh and out of foul trouble by spreading minutes to 8 or 10 guys.



Then we have the Sharp experiment followed by the Worthington experiment.



Mostly good stuff. Working pretty well.



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Perfect, Bib. It's what I have been trying to say.

But, one alteration. Using the same logic, its not a Worthington or SHarp experiment, its a Mika experiment. And it's WORKING for now.

Cougs_Rule wrote:
Perfect, Bib. It's what I have been trying to say.

But, one alteration. Using the same logic, its not a Worthington or SHarp experiment, its a Mika experiment. And it's WORKING for now.

Exactly. The Mika Experiment.

Stuck, just not true. 2nd worst perimeter defender at best? Well, you have Haws as worst, KC as 2nd worst, and it goes from there.



Halford is better than Winder ON THE PERIMETER. He does have a tendency to get pushed around by more physical players. Winder won't. WInder is also a step behind almost everyone he guards. If you haven't seen his "reach around" defense (attempting to slap the ball out of someones hands from the back while they blow past you) yet then you just aren't watching. He has done it 3 or 4 times, gets to his shooter late constantly, and at 2 sepearate times against Portland was guarding the center in the zone, while leaving a man wide open for three.



Winder isn't better than Halford at defense. Not by a long shot.

Ummm...with Carlino not starting and KC moving to PG we needed a 2. So, Rose had to experiment with who the right 2 would be. Fine, it wasn't the main experiment, but Halford at the 2 was an experiment.



On another note, people keeping throwing out there that MC isn't a "true PG." What's a "true PG"? Please define it. Is KC a "true PG"? If not, who is closer to being a "true PG," KC or MC?



Seems like the term "true PG" in relation to MC is used by people more as a back handed excuse/compliment than anything descriptive at all.

Gunk wrote:
Ummm...with Carlino not starting and KC moving to PG we needed a 2. So, Rose had to experiment with who the right 2 would be. Fine, it wasn't the main experiment, but Halford at the 2 was an experiment.



On another note, people keeping throwing out there that MC isn't a "true PG." What's a "true PG"? Please define it. Is KC a "true PG"? If not, who is closer to being a "true PG," KC or MC?



Seems like the term "true PG" in relation to MC is used by people more as a back handed excuse/compliment than anything descriptive at all.

BYU does not have a true PG. Matt Carlino is the closest to it leading the break. KC in half coyrt, although lately Matt improved. We do not have one. We usually do not have one. Jim mer was not one. When MC remembers that he has teammates, he is the best. That is why he is getting nearly all of the PG minutes now.

Gunk wrote:
Ummm...with Carlino not starting and KC moving to PG we needed a 2. So, Rose had to experiment with who the right 2 would be. Fine, it wasn't the main experiment, but Halford at the 2 was an experiment.



On another note, people keeping throwing out there that MC isn't a "true PG." What's a "true PG"? Please define it. Is KC a "true PG"? If not, who is closer to being a "true PG," KC or MC?



Seems like the term "true PG" in relation to MC is used by people more as a back handed excuse/compliment than anything descriptive at all.

Was Magic Johnson or John Stockton a true point guard?

Wolverine wrote:

Ummm...with Carlino not starting and KC moving to PG we needed a 2. So, Rose had to experiment with who the right 2 would be. Fine, it wasn't the main experiment, but Halford at the 2 was an experiment.



On another note, people keeping throwing out there that MC isn't a "true PG." What's a "true PG"? Please define it. Is KC a "true PG"? If not, who is closer to being a "true PG," KC or MC?



Seems like the term "true PG" in relation to MC is used by people more as a back handed excuse/compliment than anything descriptive at all.

Was Magic Johnson or John Stockton a true point guard?

If the current all-time assists per game leader at BYU isn't even a "true" point guard, then I don't know who could be ;)



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We probably have an all-time dunk or block leader in the books, too, but almost never have a true 5.



We have had a ton of 2, 3, and 4.





I measure it by what position the few that play pro ball end up playing.

BlueIsBetter wrote:

Gunk wrote:
Ummm...with Carlino not starting and KC moving to PG we needed a 2. So, Rose had to experiment with who the right 2 would be. Fine, it wasn't the main experiment, but Halford at the 2 was an experiment.



On another note, people keeping throwing out there that MC isn't a "true PG." What's a "true PG"? Please define it. Is KC a "true PG"? If not, who is closer to being a "true PG," KC or MC?



Seems like the term "true PG" in relation to MC is used by people more as a back handed excuse/compliment than anything descriptive at all.

Was Magic Johnson or John Stockton a true point guard?

If the current all-time assists per game leader at BYU isn't even a "true" point guard, then I don't know who could be ;)



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Seriously...and that's part of my point. MC gets beaten up over not being a "true PG" because he can score with the ball, but the reality is he's one of the best if not best ball distributers we've had at BYU. If I remember correctly, he only trails Matt Montague in the ball distribution category. And, as much as we all liked Montague, we lamented how he rarely scored and posed no offensive threat.