To the Mods

rblack wrote:

rblack wrote:
I think this forum ought to be a place that welcomes differing viewpoints. However, the poster in question did not simply have a differing viewpoint. As noted, he posted items slanted against BYU and when his bias (and misinformation) was exposed, he continued pushing his biased dataset. If I wanted to have that conversation, I would read the comments section of the st trib. As it is, half the time I am tempted to stop going to any BYU fansites because of the "coach is an idiot" and "he isn't even a D-1 athlete" comments from the BYU "faithful."

It is my sincere hope and desire that friendly, open contributors from any fan base can come here and feel welcome. I don't want this site to be only for "blue-goggled" BYU fans, but for anyone who is willing to be open and honest.

I don't have any problem with individuals having a less flattering outlook on BYU, its coaches and players than I do, I simply feel they should be able to do so without name calling and disrespectful language. Ok...I think we need a new coach. Not ok...Rose is an idiot. Ok...I don't think he should be starting. Or...We have better options than _________________. Not ok...He was the only non D-1 athlete on the floor. I am particularly more irritated when the disrespect is towards players. They work twice as hard as typical college students, sometimes at great sacrifice (try feeding a family, going to school and wading through NCAA work rules while training year round). I'm not saying we shouldn't be critical, just, some comments cross the line.

I tend to agree with you, and I wish I knew a better way to draw a line against being critical and being disparaging to players and coaches. Perhaps this is something that the leadership council can discuss and recommend new guidelines or rules on.

rblack wrote:

rblack wrote:
I think this forum ought to be a place that welcomes differing viewpoints. However, the poster in question did not simply have a differing viewpoint. As noted, he posted items slanted against BYU and when his bias (and misinformation) was exposed, he continued pushing his biased dataset. If I wanted to have that conversation, I would read the comments section of the st trib. As it is, half the time I am tempted to stop going to any BYU fansites because of the "coach is an idiot" and "he isn't even a D-1 athlete" comments from the BYU "faithful."

It is my sincere hope and desire that friendly, open contributors from any fan base can come here and feel welcome. I don't want this site to be only for "blue-goggled" BYU fans, but for anyone who is willing to be open and honest.

I don't have any problem with individuals having a less flattering outlook on BYU, its coaches and players than I do, I simply feel they should be able to do so without name calling and disrespectful language. Ok...I think we need a new coach. Not ok...Rose is an idiot. Ok...I don't think he should be starting. Or...We have better options than _________________. Not ok...He was the only non D-1 athlete on the floor. I am particularly more irritated when the disrespect is towards players. They work twice as hard as typical college students, sometimes at great sacrifice (try feeding a family, going to school and wading through NCAA work rules while training year round). I'm not saying we shouldn't be critical, just, some comments cross the line.

These points have bothered me as well. I appreciate the way you stated it. I want BYU to win and represent the Lord well but they don't always do that. Are the players and coaches lacking sometimes? Probably, just as I am, but I think it unseemly to call them names and belittle them. I sometimes wonder why some of you don't apply for the coaching jobs.



As far as the wolf guy, I'd just as leave he goes. Some divergence of opinion is good but an almost constant attack(see Craigo) on BYU and the fans adds very little. He and the name callers make it difficult to stay positive.



Hawk and you other moderators, I don't envy your job. It must be something like being a BYU coach.

nuk13 wrote:

hawkwing wrote:

I think this forum ought to be a place that welcomes differing viewpoints. However, the poster in question did not simply have a differing viewpoint. As noted, he posted items slanted against BYU and when his bias (and misinformation) was exposed, he continued pushing his biased dataset. If I wanted to have that conversation, I would read the comments section of the st trib. As it is, half the time I am tempted to stop going to any BYU fansites because of the "coach is an idiot" and "he isn't even a D-1 athlete" comments from the BYU "faithful."

It is my sincere hope and desire that friendly, open contributors from any fan base can come here and feel welcome. I don't want this site to be only for "blue-goggled" BYU fans, but for anyone who is willing to be open and honest.

I don't have any problem with individuals having a less flattering outlook on BYU, its coaches and players than I do, I simply feel they should be able to do so without name calling and disrespectful language. Ok...I think we need a new coach. Not ok...Rose is an idiot. Ok...I don't think he should be starting. Or...We have better options than _________________. Not ok...He was the only non D-1 athlete on the floor. I am particularly more irritated when the disrespect is towards players. They work twice as hard as typical college students, sometimes at great sacrifice (try feeding a family, going to school and wading through NCAA work rules while training year round). I'm not saying we shouldn't be critical, just, some comments cross the line.

These points have bothered me as well. I appreciate the way you stated it. I want BYU to win and represent the Lord well but they don't always do that. Are the players and coaches lacking sometimes? Probably, just as I am, but I think it unseemly to call them names and belittle them. I sometimes wonder why some of you don't apply for the coaching jobs.



As far as the wolf guy, I'd just as leave he goes. Some divergence of opinion is good but an almost constant attack(see Craigo) on BYU and the fans adds very little. He and the name callers make it difficult to stay positive.



Hawk and you other moderators, I don't envy your job. It must be something like being a BYU coach.

I can tell you one thing, I'm definitely not a D1 mod, maybe a highschool mod, but not D1 caliber.

mizzoucoug wrote:
I don't mind Airwolf because he brings comedy gold. Obviously he's here to get a rise out of BYU fans, and he does a pretty good job of being objective these days compared to what he used to be like. There are worse posters on this site who personally attack as a means of disagreeing. And they apparently will never be banned so Airwolf still has a ways to go imo.

Exactly. This is the reason I am in lurker status. CCorner used to be a very cordial place - even in the worst of times - but lately some posters seem to make it their personal goal to drive good posters away from the board.



My advice (for what it is worth): Get rid of the post counter. I think it alienates people who don't post regularly, and - in my opinion - causes some posters to think they are much more important than they really are, just because they post a lot.



I think a "times favorited" counter would be better, or nothing at all. I liked the idea of a post counter when it first came about, but some people just can't be given nice things. :)

BlueIsBetter wrote:

My advice (for what it is worth): Get rid of the post counter. I think it alienates people who don't post regularly, and - in my opinion - causes some posters to think they are much more important than they really are, just because they post a lot.

I see your schwartz is as big as mine :utard:

BlueIsBetter wrote:

I don't mind Airwolf because he brings comedy gold. Obviously he's here to get a rise out of BYU fans, and he does a pretty good job of being objective these days compared to what he used to be like. There are worse posters on this site who personally attack as a means of disagreeing. And they apparently will never be banned so Airwolf still has a ways to go imo.

Exactly. This is the reason I am in lurker status. CCorner used to be a very cordial place - even in the worst of times - but lately some posters seem to make it their personal goal to drive good posters away from the board.



My advice (for what it is worth): Get rid of the post counter. I think it alienates people who don't post regularly, and - in my opinion - causes some posters to think they are much more important than they really are, just because they post a lot.



I think a "times favorited" counter would be better, or nothing at all. I liked the idea of a post counter when it first came about, but some people just can't be given nice things. :)

You're just jealous Spiff is a TV Personality. ;)

Stirfry wrote:

My advice (for what it is worth): Get rid of the post counter. I think it alienates people who don't post regularly, and - in my opinion - causes some posters to think they are much more important than they really are, just because they post a lot.

I see your schwartz is as big as mine :utard:

So, we meet again for the first time, for the last time. :)

Gunk wrote:

mizzoucoug wrote:
I don't mind Airwolf because he brings comedy gold. Obviously he's here to get a rise out of BYU fans, and he does a pretty good job of being objective these days compared to what he used to be like. There are worse posters on this site who personally attack as a means of disagreeing. And they apparently will never be banned so Airwolf still has a ways to go imo.

Exactly. This is the reason I am in lurker status. CCorner used to be a very cordial place - even in the worst of times - but lately some posters seem to make it their personal goal to drive good posters away from the board.



My advice (for what it is worth): Get rid of the post counter. I think it alienates people who don't post regularly, and - in my opinion - causes some posters to think they are much more important than they really are, just because they post a lot.



I think a "times favorited" counter would be better, or nothing at all. I liked the idea of a post counter when it first came about, but some people just can't be given nice things. :)

You're just jealous Spiff is a TV Personality. ;)

:)



(Also, since I haven't posted in a while: I think the leadership council is a good idea. )

Years ago when I was moderator at Cougar Blue, the issue of banning Airwolf came up. I tracked his posts back to a Utah State government computer and then contacted him and we had a good discussion. He seemed sensible at the time and I didn't ban him. Unless someone is offensively attacking others, selling merchandise or otherwise doing something that would be deemed illegal, I'm more inclined to have individuals block their posts personally. I saw this new version of the old Airwolf show up here, but I honestly didn't pay attention and notice much of what they said. I've done that with others here where I viewed their opinions as not of much utility and I scan over those as well.

Do people really look at post counts? I do not know how many I have let alone how many anyone else has. Seems irrelevant - other than if someone comes on brand new and starts acting like a troll. Sure a poster with 3 posts acting like a troll - suspect. But who needs a post counter to notice that?



If post counters bother someone - really? Is it a competition?



I do not care if they stay or if they go since I never look at them.



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If having divergent posters like Airwolf doesn't bother you, fine. But how can it not bother you that good posters have left because of guys like that. You completely devalue your brand. Airwolf has and had only one reason to be here, to tear down BYU. If people couldn't see that, then they're blind. There was no question that he disliked BYU and there was no purpose in his posting except to tear down BYU. How many bans and meltdowns does it take for people to realize that? The meltdowns are inevitable and have been routine for the last 10 years.



If you want to keep the best informed and intellectual posters on BYU sports and BYU here, you have to take out the trash once in a while. There a lot of really amazing posters and BYU fans that don't come around here anymore... is losing guys like that worth keeping an inclusive community that invites drama?



What good did having Rustyshackleford then "Steed" on cougarblue serve? What good did the meltdowns by Airwolf84 serve? And unfortunately, when guys like that only exist to tear down BYU, they don't really care to take an educated stand; anything that tears down BYU will work for them, no matter how ridiculous and wrong.



I'm a BYU fan before I'm a Cougarcorner fan and I'm here to discuss BYU within a community of BYU fans. If you lose the quality posters because of the trolls, you lose your brand... the forum doesn't bring people in and keep them, the quality posters do. This is one reason I don't frequent cougarboard, there's too much sifting of crap to get to something of quality. If you keep an extremely liberal policy on coming and going here, you'll just devolve into cougarboards little brother. If you put higher standards on what goes on here, you'll create something exclusive and valuable. If you can't be the biggest, be the best.

Stirfry wrote:

My advice (for what it is worth): Get rid of the post counter. I think it alienates people who don't post regularly, and - in my opinion - causes some posters to think they are much more important than they really are, just because they post a lot.

I see your schwartz is as big as mine :utard:

One of the great movies of all time ;). Ludicrous speed!

Craig



I think even Wolfman would admit to not being a BYU fan and I think pretty much everyone here would agree that he had an agenda and it was not pro BYU. But, once in a while in his attempts to bring out his one-sided stats, he actually brought something I had not seen before. But, yes, 90% of it was a rehash of the same old point - counterpoint that Chris B posts after Deseret News and Trib articles and that likely froth on Ute boards.



I keep hearing that well informed posters have left. One poster on here posted that I drove McGregor away by disagreeing with him about 2010 locker room politics.



I think the player bashing and coach bashing and AD bashing and HC bashing and occasional Anti-LDS comments may have driven some away or driven them silent. Some of that is a broken record and then the counter punches taken against that become a broken record.



You disappeared for a while. But we learned that you changed jobs and moved halfway across the country.



But comments about these posters leaving for more tranquil pastures raises this question:



Where the h e cc k do they go - other than pay sites.



I scouted around a month ago. Cougar Blue died years ago. I think format and navigation do matter. I find Cougar board very frustrating to navigate on a cell phone. Cougar Fan and Deep Shades had some good and bad. There is a guy who used to post links to his blog here.



The navigation at Cougar Blue was great. Then they changed it - worse not better. Fixed it a bit and then let porn and shoe ads and bitter trolls destroy it. Totally agree.



Navigation is great at CC.



But recruiting info is not as current as it once was. Fewer scoops. Not as much insider stuff as before. I will tell you why I quit posting insider locker room stuff - graduation of a star offensive player and a star defensive player dried up my well of information.



But seriously - if posters with tons of inside information are posting that on some other free site where trolls are held outside the gates - where would that be? Maybe we could take turns keeping an eye on it and bring the scoops back here.



I love the news bites and twitter links - a lot of scoops show up there.



I like the suggestion someone above made about making a distinction between constructive criticism of a player or a coach or the institution or the program - and bashing and rehashing the same tired, usually one-sided agenda.



That nonsense has been reduced on the football side in the off season but even torched Dave Rose a bit during the 4 game skid.



The end of Football Conference realignment almost monthly sure has reduced the number of insider information claims.



Maybe there just is not much insider stuff going on right now.



If CC finds a way to keep the bashing of players, coaches, and BYU as well controlled as they have recently controlled the posters bashing each other, I will commit to a 50% reduction in my post counts immediately - more than half of mine have been arguing back vs those kind of remarks. So, if LESS IS MORE, there is the road map.



But, seriously, if a renowned basketball recruiting guru or an insider had the answer to a question that has been posed on here about whether Aytes is still on the team - which has not been answered here - on what free site would they mist likely post it? Let me know, I will go take a look for all of us, and report right back.



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I don't worry about post counts. But then again I have the most!!

From this time forth I pledge I will no longer say that a player "sucks." For now on I will instead say that a player's play sucks, as in "Wow, Heaps sucks as a QB."



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I must admit that I don't frequent the board as much as in the past, and although I am not a top poster in terms of numbers, I have made some contributions.



The answer to the question of where people go when they leave just might be "nowhere". If I get frustrated with the tone of the discussion, I just stop going anywhere at all. And it isn't just Airwolf. I read through the comments on the SF game last week, and would have thought that the game was lost by 50 points to a Junior High team. It wasn't exactly high-level (or even civil) commentary. That kind of stuff just turns me off entirely.

IowaCougar wrote:
I must admit that I don't frequent the board as much as in the past, and although I am not a top poster in terms of numbers, I have made some contributions.



The answer to the question of where people go when they leave just might be "nowhere". If I get frustrated with the tone of the discussion, I just stop going anywhere at all. And it isn't just Airwolf. I read through the comments on the SF game last week, and would have thought that the game was lost by 50 points to a Junior High team. It wasn't exactly high-level (or even civil) commentary. That kind of stuff just turns me off entirely.

This is pretty much the camp I fall in line with. Go Cougars!

The honest truth, with or without negative posters, I still regard Cougar Corner to have fewer. I've known several individuals that have left Cougar Board because there are so many there that poke fun or mock everything that is said. I don't like that, but I only post there 2-3 times a year. I only check the Top 10 listing as usually I can catch something current and important about BYU sports, but besides the thread heading, I rarely look at the posts. Too much "comedians" who think it's funny to mock everything that is said. The downside here is we are not a large group and besides our discussion threads, often time valid BYU sports news isn't here, but this is where I like to monitor BYU related tweets, which often does provide that up-to-the-second news.

My take on Airwolf is that he's okay to have around for a week or two every year or so just for kicks and giggles and to give the board a common enemy, but after a few days he wears thin and needs to go again.....for a long, long time.

snoscythe wrote:
My take on Airwolf is that he's okay to have around for a week or two every year or so just for kicks and giggles and to give the board a common enemy, but after a few days he wears thin and needs to go again.....for a long, long time.

Wolfman should run for President - the great unifier. The common enemy. Timeless strategy.



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