How did Frank Jackson and BYU get so estranged?

NBA scouts will find NBA talent regardless of where an NBA skilled player attends college. Damian Lillard (Weber State), Steph Curry (Davidson), Maurice Evans (Wichita State), Gordon Hayward (Butler), Eric Lechner (WY) to name a few. Going to Duke, Kentucky, NC places you in storied schools with very good league competition, but in the end, if you show well throughout the season and shine in the NCAA tourney, you will get noticed. If you were buying college B-Ball stock, BYU is on the rise, despite being in the WCC. They get ample opportunities to play in pre-season tournaments and going against the Zags gets plenty of hype. It boils down to what style of play is your best fit, resume of the coach, opportunity to improve your game, and exposure. To echo previous comments, Jabari and Jackson would have been drafted at BYU if they attended because of their talent level.

I don't know that I agree that you have as good of a shot getting into the NBA regardless of what school you go to. A potential journeyman NBA player has a much smaller chance of getting noticed by NBA scouts on Podunk U, unless they have a cinderella run in the tourney. Whereas the same player who plays meaningful minutes on a Duke squad will get seen regardless of if they are a 1 and done in the tourney that year.



I'd hate to bank all my chances on my team having a magical year in the tournament.

hawkwing wrote:
I don't know that I agree that you have as good of a shot getting into the NBA regardless of what school you go to. A potential journeyman NBA player has a much smaller chance of getting noticed by NBA scouts on Podunk U, unless they have a cinderella run in the tourney. Whereas the same player who plays meaningful minutes on a Duke squad will get seen regardless of if they are a 1 and done in the tourney that year.



I'd hate to bank all my chances on my team having a magical year in the tournament.

Which low ranked players go to Duke and play meaningful minutes? On the other hand, which BYU players have come to BYU being as potential NBA players? If there are say fifty draft picks a year, if you're in the top 50 players coming out of high school you should be the ones getting drafted (actually a lot less due to foreign players, but we can say 50 for now). Who has BYU signed in the top 50 that did not make it to the NBA and who has Duke signed in the top 50 that have not made the NBA?



I'll have to look, but I don't think Jimmer was highly ranked or highly recruited. Haws was more on the radar, but still not top 50. Davies might have been highest of those, but need to check. Our current recruits are a lot more prestigious than what those guys were.

hawkwing wrote:
I don't know that I agree that you have as good of a shot getting into the NBA regardless of what school you go to. A potential journeyman NBA player has a much smaller chance of getting noticed by NBA scouts on Podunk U, unless they have a cinderella run in the tourney. Whereas the same player who plays meaningful minutes on a Duke squad will get seen regardless of if they are a 1 and done in the tourney that year.



I'd hate to bank all my chances on my team having a magical year in the tournament.

the NBA and its teams invest a ridiculous amount of money on scouting players. It's not like they're sitting at home limited by what shows on ESPN. Plus, they have combines, camps, and summer leagues and D-league to make sure they don't miss ANYONE who might fall through the cracks. And they look hard overseas also. Scottie Pippen didn't even play for a D1 school. It's absolutely not based on just one nice appearance in the NCAA tournament. John Stockton never even played in the NCAA tournament and never played a single game on national TV during his whole time at Gonzaga. That was well before the average joe knew Gonzaga (thus, why Jazz fans sitting in the old Salt Palace booed when he was drafted). And if the NBA could find players from obscure schools back when Pippen and Stockton came out, keep in mind that the increase in money and resources the NBA has put into scouting new players since then is exponential.



Another example: the Jazz have a lottery pick on their team right now who before playing for Utah was like 18 years old playing against what was basically HS competition in Australia.



If you're good enough it doesn't matter where you go to college. The NBA will find you. If you're not good enough to play in the NBA it doesn't matter where you go to college. The NBA will still ignore you. Certain top NCAA teams get most of the NBA talent because they've established a brand name that makes everyone want to go there. But they don't create the talent. It's something a player is born with.

Fredette: position rank out of HS was around 70.

Haws position rank around 50.

Davies position rank around 90.



Can probably find better data, but regardless, none of these guys should have had a sniff at the NBA, would not have had any interest from Duke, much less had a chance to prove themselves if they were at Duke if we're basing it on their HS recruiting prospects. Who has Duke had comparable to these guys coming out of HS that did anything in college or the NBA? (I'm asking because I don't know Duke, but doubt they have many).



At the same time, who has BYU recruited that should have made the NBA a based on their HS recruiting status?

BYULV wrote:
Fredette: position rank out of HS was around 70.

Haws position rank around 50.

Davies position rank around 90.



Can probably find better data, but regardless, none of these guys should have had a sniff at the NBA, would not have had any interest from Duke, much less had a chance to prove themselves if they were at Duke if we're basing it on their HS recruiting prospects. Who has Duke had comparable to these guys coming out of HS that did anything in college or the NBA? (I'm asking because I don't know Duke, but doubt they have many).



At the same time, who has BYU recruited that should have made the NBA a based on their HS recruiting status?

There are a small number of players BYU has had who were highly recruited enough in HS that you would have thought they should eventually get to the NBA. Shawn Bradley for sure. And he did get there. Danny Ainge would have been another. Greg Kite was also very highly recruited out of the Houston area and he made the NBA. Fred Roberts I'm not sure was as highly recruited as those but he still got to the league. Michael Smith was pretty highly rated, but I don't think as high as those. But he still got drafted pretty high and played a few years in the NBA.



I can't think of any blue chip guys or near blue chip BYU recruits who didn't get there. I can think of some non-blue chip guys who got drafted like Rafael Araujo, or Jimmer like you mentioned. Or Davies. Those guys didn't stay long, but they weren't supposed to be there at all, based on their recruitment out of HS.

BYULV wrote:

I don't know that I agree that you have as good of a shot getting into the NBA regardless of what school you go to. A potential journeyman NBA player has a much smaller chance of getting noticed by NBA scouts on Podunk U, unless they have a cinderella run in the tourney. Whereas the same player who plays meaningful minutes on a Duke squad will get seen regardless of if they are a 1 and done in the tourney that year.



I'd hate to bank all my chances on my team having a magical year in the tournament.

Which low ranked players go to Duke and play meaningful minutes? On the other hand, which BYU players have come to BYU being as potential NBA players? If there are say fifty draft picks a year, if you're in the top 50 players coming out of high school you should be the ones getting drafted (actually a lot less due to foreign players, but we can say 50 for now). Who has BYU signed in the top 50 that did not make it to the NBA and who has Duke signed in the top 50 that have not made the NBA?



I'll have to look, but I don't think Jimmer was highly ranked or highly recruited. Haws was more on the radar, but still not top 50. Davies might have been highest of those, but need to check. Our current recruits are a lot more prestigious than what those guys were.

A low ranking NBA player is going to be an all-star in college. Meaning he'd contribute to any team in the nation, including Duke.

hawkwing wrote:

hawkwing wrote:
I don't know that I agree that you have as good of a shot getting into the NBA regardless of what school you go to. A potential journeyman NBA player has a much smaller chance of getting noticed by NBA scouts on Podunk U, unless they have a cinderella run in the tourney. Whereas the same player who plays meaningful minutes on a Duke squad will get seen regardless of if they are a 1 and done in the tourney that year.



I'd hate to bank all my chances on my team having a magical year in the tournament.

Which low ranked players go to Duke and play meaningful minutes? On the other hand, which BYU players have come to BYU being as potential NBA players? If there are say fifty draft picks a year, if you're in the top 50 players coming out of high school you should be the ones getting drafted (actually a lot less due to foreign players, but we can say 50 for now). Who has BYU signed in the top 50 that did not make it to the NBA and who has Duke signed in the top 50 that have not made the NBA?



I'll have to look, but I don't think Jimmer was highly ranked or highly recruited. Haws was more on the radar, but still not top 50. Davies might have been highest of those, but need to check. Our current recruits are a lot more prestigious than what those guys were.

A low ranking NBA player is going to be an all-star in college. Meaning he'd contribute to any team in the nation, including Duke.

that's not what he said. He was talking about lower ranking players coming out of HS. A low ranking NBA player who went to Duke and starred there I can almost guarantee you was a blue chip player in HS. If a non-blue chip HS recruit does end up at Duke for whatever reason (Matt Christensen from a few years ago comes to mind) he's not going to get to the NBA even if he is lucky enough to go to Duke.

BlueK wrote:

BYULV wrote:

I don't know that I agree that you have as good of a shot getting into the NBA regardless of what school you go to. A potential journeyman NBA player has a much smaller chance of getting noticed by NBA scouts on Podunk U, unless they have a cinderella run in the tourney. Whereas the same player who plays meaningful minutes on a Duke squad will get seen regardless of if they are a 1 and done in the tourney that year.



I'd hate to bank all my chances on my team having a magical year in the tournament.

Which low ranked players go to Duke and play meaningful minutes? On the other hand, which BYU players have come to BYU being as potential NBA players? If there are say fifty draft picks a year, if you're in the top 50 players coming out of high school you should be the ones getting drafted (actually a lot less due to foreign players, but we can say 50 for now). Who has BYU signed in the top 50 that did not make it to the NBA and who has Duke signed in the top 50 that have not made the NBA?



I'll have to look, but I don't think Jimmer was highly ranked or highly recruited. Haws was more on the radar, but still not top 50. Davies might have been highest of those, but need to check. Our current recruits are a lot more prestigious than what those guys were.

A low ranking NBA player is going to be an all-star in college. Meaning he'd contribute to any team in the nation, including Duke.

that's not what he said. He was talking about lower ranking players coming out of HS. A low ranking NBA player who went to Duke and starred there I can almost guarantee you was a blue chip player in HS. If a non-blue chip HS recruit does end up at Duke for whatever reason (Matt Christensen from a few years ago comes to mind) he's not going to get to the NBA even if he is lucky enough to go to Duke.

I agree that a low ranking high school player will not likely start immediately at Duke. But any player, regardless of what their previous star/ranking was, who is NBA caliber would start at Duke.

hawkwing wrote:

hawkwing wrote:

hawkwing wrote:
I don't know that I agree that you have as good of a shot getting into the NBA regardless of what school you go to. A potential journeyman NBA player has a much smaller chance of getting noticed by NBA scouts on Podunk U, unless they have a cinderella run in the tourney. Whereas the same player who plays meaningful minutes on a Duke squad will get seen regardless of if they are a 1 and done in the tourney that year.



I'd hate to bank all my chances on my team having a magical year in the tournament.

Which low ranked players go to Duke and play meaningful minutes? On the other hand, which BYU players have come to BYU being as potential NBA players? If there are say fifty draft picks a year, if you're in the top 50 players coming out of high school you should be the ones getting drafted (actually a lot less due to foreign players, but we can say 50 for now). Who has BYU signed in the top 50 that did not make it to the NBA and who has Duke signed in the top 50 that have not made the NBA?



I'll have to look, but I don't think Jimmer was highly ranked or highly recruited. Haws was more on the radar, but still not top 50. Davies might have been highest of those, but need to check. Our current recruits are a lot more prestigious than what those guys were.

A low ranking NBA player is going to be an all-star in college. Meaning he'd contribute to any team in the nation, including Duke.

that's not what he said. He was talking about lower ranking players coming out of HS. A low ranking NBA player who went to Duke and starred there I can almost guarantee you was a blue chip player in HS. If a non-blue chip HS recruit does end up at Duke for whatever reason (Matt Christensen from a few years ago comes to mind) he's not going to get to the NBA even if he is lucky enough to go to Duke.

I agree that a low ranking high school player will not likely start immediately at Duke. But any player, regardless of what their previous star/ranking was, who is NBA caliber would start at Duke.

But the guys we get are not NBA caliber when we get them is the point. If our program can turn non-NBA caliber guys into draft picks, isn't that better than taking blue chippers and sending them to the league. How many on here could have gotten Jabari Parker to the NBA had you been his coach? Probably any of us; he was a lottery pick regardless. Parker, Jackson and any other Blue Chip LDS recruit who goes to a place like Duke instead of BYU is just selling themselves short and missing a great and unique experience that they won't be able to replace,

I believe that FJ would have found himself enjoying the BYU experience and fan adoration just like Jimmer but for a different skill set. FJ does not have Jimmer range but does have great overall athletic ability. Frank likely will not produce that type of Jimmer fever pitch at Duke because their team has are other players who are just as good. Jabari - who was quite talented - certainly didn't create a Jimmermania cult following while he was there. Jackson will not have the green light to play loose and free as Rose allowed Jimmer. Point I am making is that Frank could have come to BYU and made some serious noise given the up-tempo play Rose has instituted (one of the highest scoring teams in the country) and still ended up developing his skill set for the NBA. Rose is piecing together a very good group of players and Frank would have done quite well with the supporting cast.