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Matangi Tonga

by Mars · 1/6/2010

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S
Schmoe
Here's the thing, Hawkwing, if you've TRULY forgiven him, it doesn't matter if he's repentant, in fact, nothing matters.



Example: You hire a handyman to fix something in your house, and he rapes your daughter. After he gets out of jail he wants to be your handyman again, if you refuse then you haven't TRULY forgiven him, even if you already have a similar handyman currently working on your house, and others bidding to do the work as well. In fact, if you don't actively pursue this handyman to come back to your house, then your wife should be pissed off at you because he was a pretty good handyman.
B
beauso79
I can't believe you guys are actually comparing Matangi Tonga to rapists and pedophiles. All I can say is WOW!!!!
S
Schmoe
beauso79 wrote:
I can't believe you guys are actually comparing Matangi Tonga to rapists and pedophiles. All I can say is WOW!!!!


I wasn't COMPARING him to anyone, I was just using an example that would be clear and easy to understand. But since you're oh so sensitive, here you go:



Example: You hire a handyman to work in your house, he STEALS a laptop and an Ipod from you, after he gets out of jail...
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beauso79
Schmoe wrote:
I can't believe you guys are actually comparing Matangi Tonga to rapists and pedophiles. All I can say is WOW!!!!


I wasn't COMPARING him to anyone, I was just using an example that would be clear and easy to understand. But since you're oh so sensitive, here you go:



Example: You hire a handyman to work in your house, he STEALS a laptop and an Ipod from you, after he gets out of jail...


So you're going to ASSUME Tonga is just going to go out and steal again after everything he had to go through. Are there any reports of misconduct at his current school?? I haven't heard/read of any.
G
Guest
beauso79 wrote:
beauso79 wrote:
I can't believe you guys are actually comparing Matangi Tonga to rapists and pedophiles. All I can say is WOW!!!!


I wasn't COMPARING him to anyone, I was just using an example that would be clear and easy to understand. But since you're oh so sensitive, here you go:



Example: You hire a handyman to work in your house, he STEALS a laptop and an Ipod from you, after he gets out of jail...


So you're going to ASSUME Tonga is just going to go out and steal again after everything he had to go through. Are there any reports of misconduct at his current school?? I haven't heard/read of any.


I don't know if he would steal or not. I would do everything possible to protect myself and prevent putting him in a situation where he could regress to that kind of behavior.
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frdbtr
Wow, some of you all are pretty high and mighty. From your examples, if any one of you lifted a blow pop from the local convenience store when you were children, we should avoid contact with you in order to protect ourselves. Come on, that just isn't the way the church teaches forgiveness. Sometimes kids make stupid mistakes, learn from them, and then never do them again. Of course some of us have never done that and are perfect and now have the perfect forum to pass judgement on someone who has made mistakes. Here is a stone for you, please cast it.
L
Lawboy
frdbtr wrote:
Wow, some of you all are pretty high and mighty. From your examples, if any one of you lifted a blow pop from the local convenience store when you were children, we should avoid contact with you in order to protect ourselves. Come on, that just isn't the way the church teaches forgiveness. Sometimes kids make stupid mistakes, learn from them, and then never do them again. Of course some of us have never done that and are perfect and now have the perfect forum to pass judgement on someone who has made mistakes. Here is a stone for you, please cast it.


Amen. I had no idea we had so many bishops, stake presidents, mission presidents, and others in position to pass judgment on here. Honestly, if BYU is willing to admit him, that is enough for me. Turn the other cheek.
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BYUNLVFAN
Schmoe wrote:
Here's the thing, Hawkwing, if you've TRULY forgiven him, it doesn't matter if he's repentant, in fact, nothing matters.



Example: You hire a handyman to fix something in your house, and he rapes your daughter. After he gets out of jail he wants to be your handyman again, if you refuse then you haven't TRULY forgiven him, even if you already have a similar handyman currently working on your house, and others bidding to do the work as well. In fact, if you don't actively pursue this handyman to come back to your house, then your wife should be pissed off at you because he was a pretty good handyman.


I would wonder why my wife wants this particular handyman back so badly.... :bug:
S
Schmoe
We're not saying that if Bronco decided to bring him back that we'd shun him, we're saying that we have no problem with Bronco not bringing him back. And those of you who "pass judgment" on Bronco for doing so are hypocrites.
M
Mars
Lawboy wrote:
I;d welcome Matangi with open arms. I believe in 2nd chances, I believe in the natural evolution of the human experience, and I believe in true forgiveness. TRUE FORGIVENESS. Not this forgive but not forget crap.
Funny how this works in sports. Fans put winning ahead of ethics. Who cares if he's a lazy athlete, a bad student, a team cancer, a legal concern? He might get that one big sack on gameday!! Gators still love Brandon Spikes, I'm sure of it. Hate Ron Artest one day, buy his jersey the next season when he's traded to your team. It makes me sick.
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Lawboy
Mars wrote:
I;d welcome Matangi with open arms. I believe in 2nd chances, I believe in the natural evolution of the human experience, and I believe in true forgiveness. TRUE FORGIVENESS. Not this forgive but not forget crap.
Funny how this works in sports. Fans put winning ahead of ethics. Who cares if he's a lazy athlete, a bad student, a team cancer, a legal concern? He might get that one big sack on gameday!! Gators still love Brandon Spikes, I'm sure of it. Hate Ron Artest one day, buy his jersey the next season when he's traded to your team. It makes me sick.


Demanding perfection from imperfect people, then not forgiving as we are commanded to do--especially when it was not even you that were wronged-- and then not allowing people to repent and improve is what makes me sick.
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byutx
Demanding perfection is not the same as expecting a player not to steal from the dorms and from his own teammates.



Tonga had plenty of extra 2nd chances.
L
Lawboy
All I can say is that I can see why many consider some LDS to be holier than thou and a bit stuck up. Because people are acting this way with one of our own. I mean come on, what Tonga did is no worse than what Harvey Unga did pre-BYU. And he cleaned it up, got it together, and look at him now. Per the requirements of some here, harvey should never have been given that shot. Nor should Van Noy, because he got a freaking DUI. Nor others on the BYU team. Tonga deserves the same shot, should he want it from BYU. I know Bronco is the type of man to give it, even if some of you would not. I suggest some of you read the story of the Prodigal son. It definitely applies to many in this group.
M
Mars
Lawboy wrote:
All I can say is that I can see why many consider some LDS to be holier than thou and a bit stuck up.
Because asking people not to steal is, like, TOTALLY stuck-up, arrogant, and self-righteous, dude. For sure. And stuff. :roll:



I like how you claim "he has changed" without knowing him in the slightest. That's even more irrational than your theory that forgiving a criminal should automatically include putting them back in the same situation in which they originally committed the crime without any thought. You'd make a terrible parent if you were as unsafe with your children as you are with the football team.
L
Lawboy
Mars wrote:
All I can say is that I can see why many consider some LDS to be holier than thou and a bit stuck up.
Because asking people not to steal is, like, TOTALLY stuck-up, arrogant, and self-righteous, dude. For sure. And stuff. :roll:



I like how you claim "he has changed" without knowing him in the slightest. That's even more irrational than your theory that forgiving a criminal should automatically include putting them back in the same situation in which they originally committed the crime without any thought. You'd make a terrible parent if you were as unsafe with your children as you are with the football team.


Thanks for putting words in my mouth. I never claimed to know him, nor did I claim he has changed. Try some reading comprehension. I said that I am not going to sit here and judge the kid like others have had no problem doing. I also said that if Bronco and BYU determine he should be readmitted in school and given a scholarship to play football, then no one should have a problem with it. But nice try at overgeneralizations as a defense. Believe it or not, BYU is school full of imperfect students.



By the way, I have 4 kids who screw up all the time. And guess what, I do not kick them out of the house over the first lie they tell, the first time they break curfew, the first time they do anything wrong. Their are consequences, but they always get a 2nd chance to get it right. That IS what parenting is, dude. Matangi made a mistake. Their were consequences. I am sure terms were placed on his readmittance. If he met those terms--per Bronco--why would I have a problem with BYU letting him back in school to play? Seriously, taking any other position is un-Christian.
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Mars
Lawboy wrote:
I also said that if Bronco and BYU determine he should be readmitted in school and given a scholarship to play football, then no one should have a problem with it.

And what makes you think that Bronco wanted Tonga back? It sure doesn't look like he holds a current schollie offer from BYU...
B
beauso79
Mars wrote:
I also said that if Bronco and BYU determine he should be readmitted in school and given a scholarship to play football, then no one should have a problem with it.

And what makes you think that Bronco wanted Tonga back? It sure doesn't look like he holds a current schollie offer from BYU...


What makes you think he didn't?
M
Mars
beauso79 wrote:
And what makes you think that Bronco wanted Tonga back? It sure doesn't look like he holds a current schollie offer from BYU...
What makes you think he didn't?

His scout.com page.
L
Lawboy
Again, I do not know if Bronco did or did not offer him. Do you? But that--again--is not the point. The point is, if BYU did offer him a shot, I have no problem with it. You and others clearly do have a problem with it. Not sure why. The kid made a mistake. Let's not brand him with a scarlet letter for life over it.
B
beauso79
Lawboy wrote:
Again, I do not know if Bronco did or did not offer him. Do you? But that--again--is not the point. The point is, if BYU did offer him a shot, I have no problem with it. You and others clearly do have a problem with it. Not sure why. The kid made a mistake. Let's not brand him with a scarlet letter for life over it.


Maybe they can make him a uniform with a RED "M" on the front of it
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