Jake Heaps and the "Football/Tebow Mission"

frdbtr wrote:
I hope he gets to BYU and realizes that playing football is secondary to serving the lord. I will not judge him for his decision but going on a missing is a commandment to all worthy males. It doesn't exclude the most talented ones, sports wise, because they can use thier sport to spread the message.

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snoscythe wrote:

I hope he gets to BYU and realizes that playing football is secondary to serving the lord. I will not judge him for his decision but going on a missing is a commandment to all worthy males. It doesn't exclude the most talented ones, sports wise, because they can use thier sport to spread the message.

I agreed. If you read my OP, while I wish he would serve, I don't criticize him for choosing not to serve. I don't pretend to know him or his situation. I criticize him for suggesting that football is an acceptable substitute.



Where it breaks down is when Jake Heaps, Donny Osmond, David Archuleta, or Manti Teo talk about serving their own kind of mission as if it is an equivalent substitute. It's absolutely not. It's at that point that I take issue with the decision. If you just don't go and leave it at that, I'm fine with that. If you go and come back early for undisclosed reasons, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. If you choose not to go and state that you are choosing to spread your message through football/song/hackey-sack or that you feel like you can touch more people through your God-given talents than your God-mandated mission, that's where my hackles get raised. I think it's a miserable example to set, I think it's a cop-out to try and make your ignoble decisions look noble, and I think it demeans the sacrifice of those who have decided to serve a mission as well as the dignity of those that chose not to serve for private reasons.



This creates a gray-area where there should be none. You go or you don't go. There is no football mission.

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ABYUFAN wrote:

I am amazed, but not surprised, at the number of posts that judge Jake and then fall all over themselves trying to say that they aren't.

Please do give that number. By my unoffical count, that number is zero, but I'd be willing to consider your suggestions of posts that you believe fit that description...

:whistle:

There's 5. Is that enough?

Im almost ashamed that this will be my first post on a BYU FOOTBALL message board.



Seriously guys? I don't know hardly where to begin and I likely won't make a very coherent post but here are some thoughts.



IT was a commandment not to eat the shew bread.

IT's a commandment not to chop off someones head with their own sword.

IT's a commandment to follow the laws, yet we all speed every single day.



Many prophets of the church have including JS, BY etc, have said that every member should pray about the words and commandments that we hear from them and recieve a spirtual witness. I don't know Heaps personally or know the reasons behind his decision, but WHAT IF, he happened to pray and felt like playing football and setting a example was what the spirit wanted him to do? but no.. it couldn't that would be agaisnt mormon culture... There are so many different possiblilties off what could/can happen that alot of posts on here strike me pretty darn on christlike.



We are supposed to support all members of the church like a family. I will spare everyone the endless comments about how GOING on a mission means nothing. Anyone that has served a mission knows about those whom puts their whole heart into it and those that dont. There are countless RM's that turn out to be terrible members. The last thing that this kid deserves from us is questioning his personal faith. Who are we to do that?

Any BYU fans that are upset that Heaps is not "living the commandents" by not serving a two-year mission should turn in their season tickets until he graduates. Then you would be showing your opposition to the demon spawn who are unwilling to go on missions.



I guaranty if Steve Young had ended up going on a mission and then his career had ended up being similar to Ben Olson's then his greatest regret would have been going on a mission. It would be a lot easier to make your peace with God after your NFL playing days are over anyway since you would have a lot of sabbath days to be repenting for on top of the mission commandment. BTW I missed the mission commandment on the stone tablets...





I guess this post mainly shows my annoyance at threads on a Football forum turning into gospel discussion. Just let the kid play football!!!

northerncougar wrote:

I hope he gets to BYU and realizes that playing football is secondary to serving the lord. I will not judge him for his decision but going on a missing is a commandment to all worthy males. It doesn't exclude the most talented ones, sports wise, because they can use thier sport to spread the message.

4

Wrong, you can't count this one. I never said I thought he was a bad person for not going (judging). I was just saying I hope he changes his mind when he comes to BYU.

frdbtr wrote:

frdbtr wrote:
I hope he gets to BYU and realizes that playing football is secondary to serving the lord. I will not judge him for his decision but going on a missing is a commandment to all worthy males. It doesn't exclude the most talented ones, sports wise, because they can use thier sport to spread the message.

4

Wrong, you can't count this one. I never said I thought he was a bad person for not going (judging). I was just saying I hope he changes his mind when he comes to BYU.

My point is that you said you wouldn't judge him but then said it is a commandment to go. At least you are saying that he is disobeying a commandment to not go. That is true technically but you don't have the right to bring it up.



My only point in this whole thing is that for any of us, for any reason, to say something about his decision is judging him. It isn't always wrong, as we make judgments all the time. But it is funny that so many say they are not and then bring up the commandment issue or he is not setting a good example.



If that is how you feel, fine but don't say you aren't judging.

Wickchad84087 wrote:
Any BYU fans that are upset that Heaps is not "living the commandents" by not serving a two-year mission should turn in their season tickets until he graduates. Then you would be showing your opposition to the demon spawn who are unwilling to go on missions.



I guaranty if Steve Young had ended up going on a mission and then his career had ended up being similar to Ben Olson's then his greatest regret would have been going on a mission. It would be a lot easier to make your peace with God after your NFL playing days are over anyway since you would have a lot of sabbath days to be repenting for on top of the mission commandment. BTW I missed the mission commandment on the stone tablets...





I guess this post mainly shows my annoyance at threads on a Football forum turning into gospel discussion. Just let the kid play football!!!

This is the stupidest post I have ever read on this website. Congratulations on this honor. First, who are you to say that anyone should not be able to watch BYU football just because we hope that a kid chooses to do what he is commanded by the lord. NO ONE is calling Heaps "demon spawn" Second, you don't know Steve young or Ben olson so how can you tell us what they would or would not regret. It is well known that Steve Young regretted not going on a mission. Having said that, Steve Young is a fine example of a member and has represented his faith very well in the media.



Austin Collie has said many times that he was not sure about whether he wanted to go on a mission until after his freshman year, he said that he realized that he was blessed with his talent by God and needed to show his thankfulness by going on a mission. It doesn't seem to have hurt him any for the sacrifice he made. What if Heaps or some other young man that decides not to go on a mission has a career ending injury before being able to sign an NFL contract, do you think they would then regret not having served? Saying that going on a mission would cause regret if a person was unable to fulfill expected sports potential undermines the fact that sometimes the Lord has different plans for his children then his children think they should get. Anyway, I am rambling. The bottom line is, going on a mission is a commandment from the Lord, I hope Heaps comes to BYU and makes the decision to go on a mission no matter how successful he is in his freshman year, similar to what Collie did. No matter what happens after his mission, he will realize blessings from the Lord that he cannot right now forsee.

northerncougar wrote:

northerncougar wrote:

I hope he gets to BYU and realizes that playing football is secondary to serving the lord. I will not judge him for his decision but going on a missing is a commandment to all worthy males. It doesn't exclude the most talented ones, sports wise, because they can use thier sport to spread the message.

4

Wrong, you can't count this one. I never said I thought he was a bad person for not going (judging). I was just saying I hope he changes his mind when he comes to BYU.

My point is that you said you wouldn't judge him but then said it is a commandment to go. At least you are saying that he is disobeying a commandment to not go. That is true technically but you don't have the right to bring it up.



My only point in this whole thing is that for any of us, for any reason, to say something about his decision is judging him. It isn't always wrong, as we make judgments all the time. But it is funny that so many say they are not and then bring up the commandment issue or he is not setting a good example.



If that is how you feel, fine but don't say you aren't judging.

No, I said I hope he changes his mind because it is a commandment to go. I never said that he is a bad person if he does not go. I actually have respect for the way he is currently talking about it since some kids get the idea to tell the media that they felt "inspiration" to play football instead of go on a mission which is contrary to the way God works.

ABYUFAN wrote:

I am amazed, but not surprised, at the number of posts that judge Jake and then fall all over themselves trying to say that they aren't.

Please do give that number. By my unoffical count, that number is zero, but I'd be willing to consider your suggestions of posts that you believe fit that description...

:whistle:

You counted three of my posts as judging Heaps and falling all over myself trying to say I am not. Tell me where I claimed to not be judging him? In one of the posts, I expressly claim the right to judge him.



For those of you who want to play the "judge not" card, ask yourself what exactly it is that you are doing when you come on here to tell us not to judge---are you *gasp* judging? There are two kinds of judgment--one we are not supposed to do, and one we are supposed to do righteously. I haven't seen anyone on here doing the judge not type of judging, including those of you who are judging the judgers.



For the third time--I have no problem with the decision not to serve....it's not for everyone. What I have a problem with is the act of equating a "Tebow mission" to a two-year church mission and pretending its the same thing. Are you okay with that northerncougar? Do you think they are the same thing?

Sooooooooo, Heaps had a pretty good day at the All-American Bowl.



I'd love to say what I think about this topic, but don't feel like judging or being judged. ;)

fifthqb wrote:
Many prophets of the church have including JS, BY etc, have said that every member should pray about the words and commandments that we hear from them and recieve a spiritual witness. I don't know Heaps personally or know the reasons behind his decision, but WHAT IF, he happened to pray and felt like playing football and setting a example was what the spirit wanted him to do? but no.. it couldn't that would be agaisnt mormon culture... There are so many different possiblilties off what could/can happen that alot of posts on here strike me pretty darn on christlike.

Those same prophets have also taught that the Spirit will never lead you contrary to the guidance of the prophets.



Not upset with him for not going. Upset that he is trying to parlay playing football as an acceptable alternative to serving a two-year mission. Go or don't go--I'm fine with it. Say playing football is your way of serving a mission, I have a problem with it. There's no such thing. It's like deciding "I'm going to define pornography as not including toplessness." It's been defined, and you've been commanded to do it. It's the pretense that is more offensive than the act.

Wickchad84087 wrote:
Any BYU fans that are upset that Heaps is not "living the commandents" by not serving a two-year mission should turn in their season tickets until he graduates. Then you would be showing your opposition to the demon spawn who are unwilling to go on missions.



I guaranty if Steve Young had ended up going on a mission and then his career had ended up being similar to Ben Olson's then his greatest regret would have been going on a mission. It would be a lot easier to make your peace with God after your NFL playing days are over anyway since you would have a lot of sabbath days to be repenting for on top of the mission commandment. BTW I missed the mission commandment on the stone tablets...

Right....because we only need to really keep the commandments on stone tablets?



Has Ben Olson ever expressed regret at serving a mission? All I have heard from him is the positives of serving.



And again, not criticizing him for not going. Criticizing him for muddying waters that are clear.

Ok. As a former missionary, I would urge all those young men who do not want to go on a mission...TO NOT GO ON A MISSION!!!



There is nothing worse than being around a missionary who lacks desire to be there. Since the raising the bar challenge this same sentiment has been expressed by general authorities. The work is too important to have people out wasting time.



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northerncougar wrote:

I know I'll probably get reamed for this, but am I the only one who is a little disappointed that Heaps is talking about football as his mission a'la Tebow?



#1 -- I wish he would serve a mission

#2 -- If he's not going to serve a mission, don't try and make us believe that your pursuit of football is for some higher cause. Just say, "I'm not going on a mission" and suit up and play. I liked that when the announcers were talking about Heaps and a mission, Announcer A quoted Heaps as saying (in reference to mission plans) that he would follow the Tim Tebow model and use the game of football as a vehicle to spread his message, and then Announcer B interjects--"So he's not going on a mission is what he means."



Making football your mission just makes you look weaker in my eyes--almost like you know you should go, but you don't want to, so you try and come up with your own compromise to make it look like you are trying to do the right thing.



If you're not going to do a mission, that's fine. It's a personal choice and I can't pretend to know all your reasons. However, don't try to cheapen the sacrifice and diligence of the thousands who do go every year by purporting to serve a mission in pads, without sacrificing a single thing....except a two-year mission.

1

Can you show me where he is "falling all over himself" saying that he isn't judging?



I just don't see it...

northerncougar wrote:

snoscythe wrote:
I know I'll probably get reamed for this, but am I the only one who is a little disappointed that Heaps is talking about football as his mission a'la Tebow?



#1 -- I wish he would serve a mission

#2 -- If he's not going to serve a mission, don't try and make us believe that your pursuit of football is for some higher cause. Just say, "I'm not going on a mission" and suit up and play. I liked that when the announcers were talking about Heaps and a mission, Announcer A quoted Heaps as saying (in reference to mission plans) that he would follow the Tim Tebow model and use the game of football as a vehicle to spread his message, and then Announcer B interjects--"So he's not going on a mission is what he means."



Making football your mission just makes you look weaker in my eyes--almost like you know you should go, but you don't want to, so you try and come up with your own compromise to make it look like you are trying to do the right thing.



If you're not going to do a mission, that's fine. It's a personal choice and I can't pretend to know all your reasons. However, don't try to cheapen the sacrifice and diligence of the thousands who do go every year by purporting to serve a mission in pads, without sacrificing a single thing....except a two-year mission.

100% agree. When will we learn that being straight up and truthful is always better than trying to spin and rationalize?

2

Again, no "falling all over himself" here....

northerncougar wrote:

northerncougar wrote:
I am amazed, but not surprised, at the number of posts that judge Jake and then fall all over themselves trying to say that they aren't.

Please do give that number. By my unoffical count, that number is zero, but I'd be willing to consider your suggestions of posts that you believe fit that description...

:whistle:

There's 5. Is that enough?

After reading the response of the posters to your statements, and seeing the statements themselves, I have to conclude that the number of people "judging Jake and then falling allover themselves" to say that they are not judging him is still zero, like I origonally thought. It appeaars to me that you are reading into the statements what you want to read into them, not what is actually there.

declocoug wrote:
Sooooooooo, Heaps had a pretty good day at the All-American Bowl.



I'd love to say what I think about this topic, but don't feel like judging or being judged. ;)

Ah c'mon - get of the fence you Nancy! ;) :P

Did i miss the commandment of going on a mission? I remember the brethren saying that all worthy and able young men should go on a mission. I loved my mission and I think almost every young man would benefit from a mission. When I hear about a young man not wanting to serve that could serve it makes me a little sad, but it's their decision. I think the Lord would want every young man to go, but as far as I'm concerned it's not a commandment to serve a full-time mission.

snoscythe wrote:

Many prophets of the church have including JS, BY etc, have said that every member should pray about the words and commandments that we hear from them and recieve a spiritual witness. I don't know Heaps personally or know the reasons behind his decision, but WHAT IF, he happened to pray and felt like playing football and setting a example was what the spirit wanted him to do? but no.. it couldn't that would be agaisnt mormon culture... There are so many different possiblilties off what could/can happen that alot of posts on here strike me pretty darn on christlike.

Those same prophets have also taught that the Spirit will never lead you contrary to the guidance of the prophets.



Not upset with him for not going. Upset that he is trying to parlay playing football as an acceptable alternative to serving a two-year mission. Go or don't go--I'm fine with it. Say playing football is your way of serving a mission, I have a problem with it. There's no such thing. It's like deciding "I'm going to define pornography as not including toplessness." It's been defined, and you've been commanded to do it. It's the pretense that is more offensive than the act.

The same spirit that I sited at the start of my post that told Nephi to kill a man???

Wouldn't killing a man be contrary to the guidance of the prophets?



As with steve young being succesfful at football just opens the door to the actual missionary work. The breaking down of barriers in the minds of ignorant people by realizing that hey, maybe mormons aren't all cultist, Steve young (Jake Heaps) look like a decent guy. Followed by drawing crowds doing firesides around the country and settting a good example.



Plus, on a lighter personal side I feel like donny probably converted more people on dancing with the stars than I did my whole mission.