Unga is Staying, Officially!

Right on, Harvey.

Staley won the Doak Walker award. My vote goes to him. I don't know the numbers and all but he had that extra gear that was awesome. Though I would note he did not run many people over.

I think this is great for BYU. I'm not one of those that thinks a college degree is all that it is cracked up to be, especially if the individual has talent that can't be taught, like playing in the NFL. It's a great sacrifice for him to postpone going to the NFL if he has that level of talent. A college degree can always be finished later.



As for the best RB at BYU, I am in the Staley camp. The first game he played in as a frosh at BYU the announcers were drooling over him saying he had NFL talent written all over him. And that was sharing time with Tahi, who obviously has NFL talent. If Staley had Unga's durability, Unga would still be chasing Staley's career record.

Let's be honest here, Harvey came back because his NFL evaluation was not what he was expecting.

I am very grateful for this gift that Harvey Unga is giving to all BYU Football fans! Wow; I didn't want to focus on it because I thought for sure he'd go pro, but I'm ecstatic that he's returning, and that just made the 2010 BYU Football season that much more exciting; we have a chance of yet another 10+ win season (I'm hoping for 11-12 wins the next two years, then an undefeated, national championship team in 2012 (although we just might get there in 2011)! And this next year, we're going to be doing a (hopefully) 11 win season despite losing so many Seniors!



Are we really there yet?



Well, we have a football program on the cusp of elite status, despite being unable to recruit the sort of speed that Oklahoma, TCU, & Florida State have; not only returned to former glory by Bronco Mendenhall, but now blazing new trails (FOUR CONSECUTIVE 10+ WIN SEASONS, Nationally Ranked for years on end, the best recruiting class in BYU History, USC Linebacker transferring to BYU, #1 QB recruit enthusiastically recruiting other top recruits for BYU's program...).



I'd say we're nearly there...some would say we're there and then some...the restoration is virtually complete, and now it's time to move onward and upward!



Now all we need to do is to go 19-2 against Utah like we did between 1972 and 1992, and win more Conference and National Championships!!



:D :D



GO COUGARS!!! :D :D :D :D 8)

kitic77 wrote:
Let's be honest here, Harvey came back because his NFL evaluation was not what he was expecting.

Harv was still going to get paid (and had a better chance at a long pro career than say Trent Plaisted)



I agree though, if someone promised him that he'd be a 3rd or 4th round pick, he'd be gone.

(there have been a lot of great backs in the nfl that were late picks or even undrafted-- Priest Holmes for example went undrafted)



Bottom line, is this creates a beautiful logjam on our team that only helps to create long term depth; and Harvey is the perfect bridge for the new quarterback with an extremely deep and strong offensive line.



I still see us struggling some next season, but we'll still have a good year, winning record, and a bowl game... and that's been reaffirmed by Harv this week.



A great season would now require some linebackers and dlinemen to grow up really really fast, because our secondary will be solid.

ABYUFAN wrote:

ABYUFAN wrote:
I, personally, have Unga as a better running back than Staley, and I say better based on the numbers actually produced. Staley was faster, but also was even more injury prone than Unga.

Ummmm....what numbers? It's fine if you say you are entitled to your opinion, but you can't then try and argue that your opinion is better because the numbers support you. Staley's numbers obliterate Unga's.



Harvey is a 4.96 career ypc back. Staley was 5.96--a full yard better. Even if you just compare junior seasons, Harvey was 5.23, but Staley was 8.07. Staley got 500 more yards, but on 12 fewer carries his junior season. Not to mention Luke caught twice as many passes for nearly three times the yardage.



Yeah, I'll admit that Harvey with a sore shoulder is better than Luke with a broken leg, but that's about all I'll give you. I guess the fact that you were probably still in Primary when Staley was playing clouds your memory. That kid was a one-in-a-million talent, the type I don't know if we'll ever see at BYU again.

OK I'll be a bit more clear.



Staley/ Unga Year 1



Staley 92 rushes 432 yards 10 TDs

Unga 244 rushes 1227 yards 13 TDs



Staley I believe was 3rd team freshman All-American. Unga I believe was 1st team. Clearly Unga was more beneficial to the Cougs his “year one” than Staley was during his





“Year One” goes to Unga





Year 2



Staley 130 carries 479 yards 7 touchdowns

Unga 240 caries 1132 yards 11 tds



Numbers wise, “Year 2” also goes to Unga (and again it’s not even that close)





Year 3



Staley (couldn't easily find the number of caries) 1,596 yards 24 touchdowns

Unga 208 caries 1087 yards 11 touchdowns





Year three to Staley in a landslide.





1999 Staley's "year one" we lost to Utah and had 20 yard rushing in that game. Clearly We could have really used the 2001 Staley then. We also lost our bowl game to Marshall and Staley was (you guessed it) injured he had 7 yards on 3 rushes.



2007, Unga's "year one" we had a HUGE WIN over Utah where he gained 144 yards and a dramatic game winning touchdown (we all know the picture) and we WON our Bowl game over UCLA (although Unga was a non-factor)



I give Unga a nod in “year one” big game performance





In 2000, Staley's "year 2" We Beat Utah with Staley accounting for 17 rushes for 30 yards and had no Bowl game. In

2008, Unga's "year 2" we lost to Utah, Unga had 15 rushes 116 yards 2 touchdowns and he could have won the game for the Cougars had Anae not forgotten who he was. In the bowl game Unga had 17 rushes for 71 yards and a TD.



So even though we beat Utah in Staley's "year 2," Unga still was unquestionably bigger in big games than was Staley was. I'll give Staley credit for the win over Utah, and call their big game credit for "year two" a push.





2001 Staley's "year 3" when looking at the big game performance - We'll give him credit for BYU's dramatic win over Utah, we don't need to go into details. But, Unga, for his year 3, he also had a dramatic win over Utah and also played a big role in that. We'll call that a push too. "Year 3" bowl games... Staley was injured, Unga played and 24 rushes for 71 yards. BYU won Unga’s year 3 Bowl…. We did not win our bowl game in Staley's year 3. I'm being generous to give Staley a push for big games in "year three" and that is just because of the dramatic fashion of the Utah win.







SO …Staley’s numbers are a huge plus in year 3, and we have a push for big game performance.





Accordingly, as of now, I have Unga's numbers better than Staley's numbers in 2 out of 3 years. And they preformed about equal 2 out of the 3 years worth of big games. However, in the third year of big games Harvey clearly has had a much better performance.



Now we get to year 4 and Staley gave us nothing for his year 4. Harvey, unless I am mistaken, and barring anything unforeseen, will own every meaningful rushing record at BYU. That is why I have him at number 1.



Again, I can see why people have Staley at number one. Tallent wise he was off the charts. But when you look at the whole body of work for each back’s whole career, and not just one year, I’m taking Harvey with the idea that with Harvey beating Staley performance-wise in 3 out of 4 years, and also having better big games in 3 out of 4 years, Unga is the better back.



P.S. I had a child in primary during the Staley years maybe your fond memories of Staley come from the fact that he was the featured back while you were there. My featured back was Jamal Willis.







** EDIT*** said more succinctly, your measure of the greatest back at BYU were a marathon, It'd go to Unga by a landslide, if it were a sprint, then it's go to Staley by an even greater margin.

Excellent analysis. My take.... The best, or most talented RB was Luke Stayley. The most valuable or overall effective is Harvey Unga. Either way, both are amazing players, and we are lucky to have them as BYU players. I think we will see more like them in the near future.

ABYUFAN wrote:
BTW... my sources indicate that the real reason that Unga is staying is because he wants to learn some of Darrell Macks "moves"



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">

He wants to learn to fall down ? :roll: :whistle: :lol: :evil:

Blue-goggles aside, I think this is a great decision for Harvey to make. He comes from a family and background that values education and he's decided to keep it as a priority in his life. I would have respected him either way, but I think his reasons for coming back are legitimate and are very important to him. Good on ya, Harvey!



PS-Anyone know what Harvey's major is?

Yes, it is Recreation Management. My daughter is in the program with him.

I don't necessarily agree that Staley had more talent. Was Staley faster? Yes, but in what other ways was he better? Harvey runs stronger, probably makes just as many if not more guys miss, just as good of vision, he's a better blocker, and a lot better receiver. We don't know how well Harvey will do in the Pro's but we do know that Staley didn't make it. Staley was faster but it's not like he was Chris Johnson, Reggie Bush, or Adrian Peterson fast. Speed is great but you need a lot more than that. Bettis did just fine without speed as have many others.

Staley received the Doak Walker Award, given annually to the nation's top running back. He was also named Touchdown Club of Columbus Running Back of the Year—The Jim Brown Award, and earned First-team All-American honors from the American Football Coaches Association, the Associated Press, CNN/SI, Football News, Football Writers Association, the NFL Draft Report, and the Walter Camp Foundation (among others).



Harvey has never even sniffed first team All-American. Harvey is a great back, but he does not have the upside skills Staley had. And it is about more than just speed. But speed is enough. It is what separates the wannabes from the guys who get to do it.

Totally different year and offense. He had Doman and we ran the option quite a bit which most teams weren't used to when they played us. Also If I remember correctly there weren't that many impressive running backs that year. I'm not saying that Staley wasn't good, he was a stud and so is Harvey. They are two different types of RB's. Staley was great at hitting the corner and using his speed as well as just waiting for a gap to develop and then exploding through it. Harvey is great at breaking tackles, making something from nothing, making people miss, catching the ball, and blocking. Just because Staley was faster doesn't mean he was more talented than Harvey. Harvey has had 1300-1800 yards total every year he's played. That's more impressive than a Doak Walker award, IMHO.

Getting 1000 yards per season is a function of health and depth too.....you think if Luke was healthy and not splitting snaps with a future NFL-er he would have hit 1,000? He never had a chance. If Fui didn't get injured Harvey's freshman season, would Harvey have gotten his 1,000 yards as a 2nd stringer?



Yards per carry tells me what you do when you get the ball. Averaging better than 8 yards a carry in a season is more than just speed. Only one guy in collegiate football history has done better with more than 150 carries.



Nine guys have had 4 1000+ yard seasons....I don't think anyone bothers keeping track of how many have 3 1000+ yards seasons.

Short_Change wrote:
Harvey has had 1300-1800 yards total every year he's played. That's more impressive than a Doak Walker award, IMHO.

Harvey's best rushing year was his first year with 1,227. He did have 655 yards receiving that year to give him 1,882 total yards. But he hasn't approached that number since.

kitic77 wrote:

Harvey has had 1300-1800 yards total every year he's played. That's more impressive than a Doak Walker award, IMHO.

Harvey's best rushing year was his first year with 1,227. He did have 655 yards receiving that year to give him 1,882 total yards. But he hasn't approached that number since.

I think he was looking at total yards....rushing and receiving. Even giving that, though, Harvey didn't get to 1300 this season. He barely eclipsed 1200.

snoscythe wrote:
Getting 1000 yards per season is a function of health and depth too.....you think if Luke was healthy and not splitting snaps with a future NFL-er he would have hit 1,000? He never had a chance. If Fui didn't get injured Harvey's freshman season, would Harvey have gotten his 1,000 yards as a 2nd stringer?



Yards per carry tells me what you do when you get the ball. Averaging better than 8 yards a carry in a season is more than just speed. Only one guy in collegiate football history has done better with more than 150 carries.



Nine guys have had 4 1000+ yard seasons....I don't think anyone bothers keeping track of how many have 3 1000+ yards seasons.

Luke's not the only back to split time with a future NFLer. I believe harvey's also had a future NFLer every year he's played. Time has shown that Harvey is a better back than Fui was. I think this may be the first year he's NOT sharing the backfield witha future NFLer... right?

ABYUFAN wrote:

Getting 1000 yards per season is a function of health and depth too.....you think if Luke was healthy and not splitting snaps with a future NFL-er he would have hit 1,000? He never had a chance. If Fui didn't get injured Harvey's freshman season, would Harvey have gotten his 1,000 yards as a 2nd stringer?



Yards per carry tells me what you do when you get the ball. Averaging better than 8 yards a carry in a season is more than just speed. Only one guy in collegiate football history has done better with more than 150 carries.



Nine guys have had 4 1000+ yard seasons....I don't think anyone bothers keeping track of how many have 3 1000+ yards seasons.

Luke's not the only back to split time with a future NFLer. I believe harvey's also had a future NFLer every year he's played. Time has shown that Harvey is a better back than Fui was. I think this may be the first year he's NOT sharing the backfield witha future NFLer... right?

There is a difference between splitting snaps with an NFL player and getting help from NFL players. Tahi played RB when he was splitting snaps with Staley, not FB, so they were splitting the available snaps for the RB position.



Manase and Fui have both played FB with Harvey--enabling roles where they are blocking to help, not taking away available snaps for Harvey at the RB position.



While Staley's numbers were hurt by playing with an NFLer, Harvey's have been helped. Not saying that is either player's fault, it's just the way things worked out with depth/coaching. Crowton, Reynolds and Chow didn't utilize the FB nearly to the extent Anae has.

I also think this is a smart move by Harvey. If indeed the NFL evaluation did come back less than spectacular then it makes even more sense to return while still on scholarship and have his education paid for. If he were to turn pro, and then desire to finish his degree it would be on his dime.

snoscythe wrote:
Getting 1000 yards per season is a function of health and depth too.....you think if Luke was healthy and not splitting snaps with a future NFL-er he would have hit 1,000? He never had a chance. If Fui didn't get injured Harvey's freshman season, would Harvey have gotten his 1,000 yards as a 2nd stringer?



Yards per carry tells me what you do when you get the ball. Averaging better than 8 yards a carry in a season is more than just speed. Only one guy in collegiate football history has done better with more than 150 carries.



Nine guys have had 4 1000+ yard seasons....I don't think anyone bothers keeping track of how many have 3 1000+ yards seasons.

Ya and the year previous Staley only averaged 3.7 yards per carry. Staley had an amazing junior year, but his overall body of work doesn't stand out more than Harvey's especially seeing what he didn't do in the pro's.