Can we please refrain from villainizing the schwenkes

I pulled this from a post over on TBS but nothing in the post was protected information and it was so well-stated that I had to be bring it over:



Must read if you want to know why Bronco pulled the scholly

It's long so just read the highlighted part if you want the quick version.





“I just got a call back from Notre Dame and they confirmed that the offer was made, so we’re going to fly up there tomorrow afternoon,” Mr. Schwenke said. “We’re excited. I know Kona is also excited. We’re absolutely excited about the events over the past couple days and we’re looking forward to coming over there and seeing the school, meeting the coaches, as well as some of the faculty members.



“The history of Notre Dame, and everything about the school, being a parent has us excited. I remember watching some of the old Notre Dame games from way, way back and to get the opportunity to get an offer from Notre Dame is something that is beyond words for myself, and I know I can speak for my wide as well. We’re just excited to come up there and visit and check out the campus and check out the school. I know Kona is very excited as well.”



“Based on the conversations that we’ve had with the coaches, they’re very gracious and very accommodating to us, and it will be very exciting to meet them face to face,” the Mr. Schwenke explained. “I don’t doubt there is a lot of sincerity in their voices and that they’re caring people that want the best for our son. There’s nothing that I sense from our conversations that would make me feel otherwise. I felt really god about the conversations I’ve had with the coaches thus far.”

http://byu.scout.com/2/941589.html



"I'm really excited about coming up to Notre Dame and seeing their school," Schwenke said. "I've been pretty interested since Notre Dame came down to our school and talked to me. I'm real excited to come up there and see the campus."



"I just heard from Manti (Te'o) and Roby (Toma) that Notre Dame is a great place, and the school is great up there and the academics are good. I just heard from them, and my dad was just telling me about Notre Dame and how great it is because he's been following them. I'm just excited to come check it out."



http://insider.espn.go.com/ncf...ting/onthetrail







Now compare all of the quotes from up above with the ones down below. It starts to get really weird. The quotes on top happened before the quotes on bottom. Probably a couple of days between the two.







“We told Coach Mendenhall that Kona is 100 percent committed to BYU and that taking a trip to Notre Dame didn’t detract from his commitment, that he just wanted the opportunity to visit some friends,” informed Kona’s father McKay. “Kona has prayed about it and the answer he received was that BYU was the school he needed to sign with and I told Bronco that, so it’s hard for me to understand why he can’t take Kona’s word on this.”



“It’s an ugly side to BYU that we didn’t see until just this week and we’re extremely disappointed by all of this,” said McKay. “My son gave them his word and that still apparently wasn’t good enough. He wants to trip to Notre Dame and we’re going there because we believe that it’s not something that is disrespecting BYU by doing so. They told us that they would pull his offer if he goes to Notre Dame and hopefully they change their minds, but we don’t believe we’re doing anything wrong here. We were never told beforehand that we couldn’t trip to other schools if we wanted to keep our BYU offer, so them telling us so now that it’s so late doesn’t show a lot of trust in their part.”



“He still wants to go to BYU, even now, but he doesn’t feel that he should be treated this way by the coaches there,” summed up McKay regarding Kona’s mindset. “It’s truly an unfortunate thing, but all we can do is move on and decide between Notre Dame and Washington.”





Bronco aint no Dummy!!

Mars wrote:

Treat the recruits like men and quit babying them. Then can get babied at Notre Dame and UW and be done playing football in time for finals every year. Yeah, the rule says they can change their mind at any time before signing day, but NCAA rules also allow drinking, porn, and extra-marital sex. We expect more here. I'm just glad this is all getting out of the way this recruiting year so it won't be a surprise to anyone in the future.

AMEN! Very well said, I completely agree.

You guys are unbelievable. you are saying that because he is tripping to nd he is probably going to drink, look at orn and have premarital sex and we are lucky that we don't have him because he probably would have done that stuff had he come to byu??? Where the hell is that logic coming from!!! how does him keeping his verbal commitment to byu in anyway suggest he can't commit to living the honor code? are you serious? If I were kona, if that was what the coaches were telling me, i wouldn't go there either.



i can't talk with people like that. You call that reasoning? Its this kind of thinking that makes people hate byu. it make me hate part of it. its so freaking lame.

gmj81--quit villanizing the Scwhankas!!!!!





;)

C'mon, don't get ridiculous. No one said that or drew those conclusions. And if anyone ever did based on the info we have, it is a pretty stupid conclusion. They're just making analogies and talking about how BYU is different and just because something is OK with the NCAA does not make it OK with BYU.

jonnylingo wrote:

snoscythe wrote:
Treat the recruits like men and quit babying them. Then can get babied at Notre Dame and UW and be done playing football in time for finals every year. Yeah, the rule says they can change their mind at any time before signing day, but NCAA rules also allow drinking, porn, and extra-marital sex. We expect more here. I'm just glad this is all getting out of the way this recruiting year so it won't be a surprise to anyone in the future.

AMEN! Very well said, I completely agree.

You guys are unbelievable. you are saying that because he is tripping to nd he is probably going to drink, look at orn and have premarital sex and we are lucky that we don't have him because he probably would have done that stuff had he come to byu??? Where the hell is that logic coming from!!! how does him keeping his verbal commitment to byu in anyway suggest he can't commit to living the honor code? are you serious? If I were kona, if that was what the coaches were telling me, i wouldn't go there either.



i can't talk with people like that. You call that reasoning? Its this kind of thinking that makes people hate byu. it make me hate part of it. its so freaking lame.

This is, hands-down, the stupidest conclusion anyone has come to out of all the gazillion comments on these threads. Wow.

snoscythe wrote:
gmj81--quit villanizing the Scwhankas!!!!!





;)

I'm sorry, I'm just a villainizer. But what can I say, I do enjoy villainizing. I mean really, what else is better in life than to villainize? I just love to get my kicks out of making villains out of other folks.

jonnylingo wrote:

snoscythe wrote:
Treat the recruits like men and quit babying them. Then can get babied at Notre Dame and UW and be done playing football in time for finals every year. Yeah, the rule says they can change their mind at any time before signing day, but NCAA rules also allow drinking, porn, and extra-marital sex. We expect more here. I'm just glad this is all getting out of the way this recruiting year so it won't be a surprise to anyone in the future.

AMEN! Very well said, I completely agree.

You guys are unbelievable. you are saying that because he is tripping to nd he is probably going to drink, look at orn and have premarital sex and we are lucky that we don't have him because he probably would have done that stuff had he come to byu??? Where the hell is that logic coming from!!! how does him keeping his verbal commitment to byu in anyway suggest he can't commit to living the honor code? are you serious? If I were kona, if that was what the coaches were telling me, i wouldn't go there either.



i can't talk with people like that. You call that reasoning? Its this kind of thinking that makes people hate byu. it make me hate part of it. its so freaking lame.

Chillax broham. Not at all what we are saying. What I meant is that the NCAA draws their own lines and BYU draws their own. We will never cross a line the NCAA draws, but we will draw lines much stricter than NCAA rules. I was not saying Kona is going to get blistering drunk with Manti and chase Catholic school girls down the street of South Bend. I was simply illustrating that arguing that a recruit should be able to change their mind per NCAA rules is weak. The NCAA draws the outer ambit of what is permitted. Schools and coaches are free to draw their own lines as long as they stay within the NCAA box.



Of all people, BYU fans should understand this---hence the alchohol, porn and sex references. If you honestly read what I typed as an insinuation that Kona was going to do all those things, maybe you should step away from the internet for a few hours to let your passions cool off, because you are seriously reading too much into things.

jonnylingo wrote:
I am questioning bronco's philosophy... I am saying that its a stupid policy. i understand that i am in the minority on this. I think it cost us kona's services... I am just arguing that in this case they should not have pulled his scholarship and let him go... we could have waited until wednesday. it was stupid to force him not to take the trip.

Okay, it's your right to question coaching decisions. You can say that it was stupid to hire Jaime Hill, that it was stupid to start Hall over Gaskins, that it was stupid to wear royal blue against Utah, that it was stupid to kick Te'o off of the team for DUI, any crazy thing that you want. It just doesn't seem like you are looking at BOTH sides of the equation here, which is so frustrating.



Bronco's policy may have "cost" BYU Kona, sure. Kona may have committed elsewhere anyway if Bronco said "Had fun during your Notre Dame trip!" If Bronco had acted that way, he may have lost Phillips instead (which would have been worse) or even as well. BYU may have lost other kids if they were given the OK to shop around, like Fabuluje, Fua, Rowley, or Tushaus. This whole situation may save us from losing a kid like Heder, Pikula, or Pritchard at the end of the next recruiting class. Who knows? There are opportunity costs to every decision. And I think that the overall result of both Bronco's policy and this incident are big positives.

jonnylingo wrote:

snoscythe wrote:
Treat the recruits like men and quit babying them. Then can get babied at Notre Dame and UW and be done playing football in time for finals every year. Yeah, the rule says they can change their mind at any time before signing day, but NCAA rules also allow drinking, porn, and extra-marital sex. We expect more here. I'm just glad this is all getting out of the way this recruiting year so it won't be a surprise to anyone in the future.

AMEN! Very well said, I completely agree.

You guys are unbelievable. you are saying that because he is tripping to nd he is probably going to drink, look at orn and have premarital sex and we are lucky that we don't have him because he probably would have done that stuff had he come to byu??? Where the hell is that logic coming from!!! how does him keeping his verbal commitment to byu in anyway suggest he can't commit to living the honor code? are you serious? If I were kona, if that was what the coaches were telling me, i wouldn't go there either. i can't talk with people like that. You call that reasoning? Its this kind of thinking that makes people hate byu. it make me hate part of it. its so freaking lame.

Wow. You left out the part where I secretly implied somewhere in between the lines that Kona is likely to forcibly rape pregnant sperm whales. :gross:



Seriously though, you must have read that waaay wrong. Neither of us said anything of the sort.

Mars wrote:
Okay, it's your right to question coaching decisions. You can say that it was stupid to hire Jaime Hill, that it was stupid to start Hall over Gaskins, that it was stupid to wear royal blue against Utah, that it was stupid to kick Te'o off of the team for DUI, any crazy thing that you want. It just doesn't seem like you are looking at BOTH sides of the equation here, which is so frustrating.



Bronco's policy may have "cost" BYU Kona, sure. Kona may have committed elsewhere anyway if Bronco said "Had fun during your Notre Dame trip!" If Bronco had acted that way, he may have lost Phillips instead (which would have been worse) or even as well. BYU may have lost other kids if they were given the OK to shop around, like Fabuluje, Fua, Rowley, or Tushaus. This whole situation may save us from losing a kid like Heder, Pikula, or Pritchard at the end of the next recruiting class. Who knows? There are opportunity costs to every decision. And I think that the overall result of both Bronco's policy and this incident are big positives.

Again, nicely stated, Mars! It's all about the opportunity costs.

"Yeah, the rule says they can change their mind at any time before signing day, but NCAA rules also allow drinking, porn, and extra-marital sex. We expect more here. I'm just glad this is all getting out of the way this recruiting year so it won't be a surprise to anyone in the future"



What does this mean then? The last sentence. so what won't be a suprise to anyone in the future.

jonnylingo wrote:
"Yeah, the rule says they can change their mind at any time before signing day, but NCAA rules also allow drinking, porn, and extra-marital sex. We expect more here. I'm just glad this is all getting out of the way this recruiting year so it won't be a surprise to anyone in the future"



What does this mean then? The last sentence. so what won't be a suprise to anyone in the future.

The fact that Bronco will yank your scholarship offer if you verbally commit and then decide to take official visits to other campuses.

Mars wrote:

I am questioning bronco's philosophy... I am saying that its a stupid policy. i understand that i am in the minority on this. I think it cost us kona's services... I am just arguing that in this case they should not have pulled his scholarship and let him go... we could have waited until wednesday. it was stupid to force him not to take the trip.

Okay, it's your right to question coaching decisions. You can say that it was stupid to hire Jaime Hill, that it was stupid to start Hall over Gaskins, that it was stupid to wear royal blue against Utah, that it was stupid to kick Te'o off of the team for DUI, any crazy thing that you want. It just doesn't seem like you are looking at BOTH sides of the equation here, which is so frustrating.



Bronco's policy may have "cost" BYU Kona, sure. Kona may have committed elsewhere anyway if Bronco said "Had fun during your Notre Dame trip!" If Bronco had acted that way, he may have lost Phillips instead (which would have been worse) or even as well. BYU may have lost other kids if they were given the OK to shop around, like Fabuluje, Fua, Rowley, or Tushaus. This whole situation may save us from losing a kid like Heder, Pikula, or Pritchard at the end of the next recruiting class. Who knows? There are opportunity costs to every decision. And I think that the overall result of both Bronco's policy and this incident are big positives.

Phillips chose byu because he love it and byu has done an amazing job recruiting him. Also because his options were limited. Kona was a part of this tight knit group. I just think we could have backed off and let all the work they had already done sink it instead of just throwing out the window. I understand however the value of the precedent it sets going forward. i think I am finished talking about this. I do need to step back away from it. the reports of his ability to commit to living the honor code because he was not living up to his verbal commitment just really got to me. That and the tastless personal attacks.

Lawboy wrote:
This whole situation? Let's put it in it's proper perspective first. That is what is lacking in all of this. Many here are quick to rip the Schwenke's for lack on integrity, and to me, that is flat out wrong. Tell you what, go ask an Alabama fan, or Florida fan, or USC fan about this scenario with this player. Tell me if they react the same. I think we all know that they will not, and the reason is because it is not personal to them. It is just another day on the recruiting trail. And therein lies the problem. Too many make it personal when it should not be. Ever. It is freaking college football recruiting. And if the kid changes his mind, guess what--he is entitled to. Changing your mind is not sin, is not immoral, is not unethical. looking and exploring options at a time when you are in demand is also not sinful, illegal or immoral. For those of us employed, if someone came by with a job offer, and you entertained it, what does that make you??? I;d say it makes you smart. You have the chance to accept it or turn it down. No harm in looking. Unless you are married. and BYU and Kona are engaged, not married. You can look while engaged.



when I was dating my wife, I was ready to go exclusive. She said yes. Less tha na week later, she backed out and said she was not ready. I told her I di not like it, but I respected her choice, and thought I still offered her the best options. She went on a few other dates, then told me she was ready. We got married 8 weeks later. Imagine if I had just cut her off when she wanted to explore other choices. I;d have missed out on 6 years of happiness, and not had the 2 boys that brighten my world every day. So that is where I am coming from. You have to be open to possibilities, and not act jilted just because they go look. They just might come back, more committed than ever. you have to allow for that.

I'm glad that you used my metephore, but would it have been the same if she had started flirting, and even going on a few double dates with another guy. What if you had had several conversations about her activities (which were, after all, legal, because you weren't married, just committed), and she always assured you that she was still 100% committed, and that he was just a friend? What if it got down to the week before the wedding, and you had rented the tux and the hall, and sent out the invitations, and bought the wedding cake and the refreshments, and the flowers, and the decorations, and what if it was not all refundable? What if then, she was going away for the weekend with " just a friend," who happens to be a really good looking very rich guy with all kinds of charm? And what if you wouldn't even be able to talk to her again until you were at the wedding? What if you talked to her again as she was about to leave, and she and her father both assured you that she was still 100% committed? Would you say, oh allright, go ahead and go. I'll be waiting.



The fiance' is fair game for other suiters until the wedding. Other suiters are not fair game for the fiance' after she commits unless she first de-commits. I think recruits, like anyone else, have a right to change their minds, because circumstances change. There comes a point, however, when one needs to be true to his commitment.

Mars wrote:

There is a reason kids can switch up until signing day... they should have the right to explore all their options up until that day. that is why the rules are the way they are. that is why there is no rule that says once you verbally commit you are bound. Its beacuse sa things change they should have a right to weigh their options before making that decsion. in this case he got a new offer from a great program. he has the right to explore it. i still think byu overreacted (again unless here is more to the story than i am aware of) by pulling his schollie.

You make it sound like the NCAA is in charge of running BYU and not Bronco Mendenhall.



If BYU says "Don't trip after you commit here or you'll lose your offer" and the NCAA says "your commit isn't legally binding until you sign", and a kid commits to BYU and then trips elsewhere, which policy do you think should matter more to BYU in how they react- The NCAA's, or their own?



Should the recruit then act surprised that BYU is upholding their own policy? Should the recruit's family get mad at BYU for doing exactly what they said they would do?



Seems like a poor argument.

Especially sinse it is not unique to BYU.

jonnylingo wrote:
Phillips chose byu because he love it and byu has done an amazing job recruiting him. Also because his options were limited.

Kona is also quoted as saying "I love BYU". Phillips was recruited by Alabama, Michigan, and Cincinnati, among others. Phillips kept true to his word though, while Schwenke threw the blessing of a BYU scholarship (an answer to a personal prayer) out the window.



And yes, it will be VERY interesting to see if Schwenke ends up serving a mission now, like he said he wanted to do at BYU. Hopefully his immaturity here doesn't end up costing him THAT as well... :~(

snoscythe wrote:

"Yeah, the rule says they can change their mind at any time before signing day, but NCAA rules also allow drinking, porn, and extra-marital sex. We expect more here. I'm just glad this is all getting out of the way this recruiting year so it won't be a surprise to anyone in the future"



What does this mean then? The last sentence. so what won't be a suprise to anyone in the future.

The fact that Bronco will yank your scholarship offer if you verbally commit and then decide to take official visits to other campuses.

Yeah, I see your point and don't disagree. I think i got a little carried away with that one.

Lawboy, you and Mars have similar experiences with dating your wives but you both handled it differently. I don't think either is wrong.



I just don't get why you're so quick to dump on Bronco here when there is ample evidence to show that Kona was not only not "100% committed" but was actively searching out other suitors. Bronco took Mars approach to the situation. I suppose part of the reason why I hate these last minute LOI surprises is that the media ALWAYS spin it as Bronco's fault. If it wasn't something he did do, it was something he didn't do. I'm sick of it. Bronco has been nothing but consistent as a recruiter since day one.



And don't think for a minute that fans at USC or Alabama or Florida or UW don't get involved with recruiting or anything else that has to do with their programs. Football is life at those schools. Tennessee fans were waiting outside the athletic offices for Lane Kiffin with torches and defamatory signs when he left for USC!! UW fans freaked out that Heaps picked BYU over UW to the point where the started getting critical of his religion and blacklisted his parents businesses. They were nice and sweet when he was still in play though. Every other place in the country is 100 times worse than BYU. BYU has an element that a lot don't because a lot of fans feel like it is a calling to play for football and you don't turn down callings! But it is no different anywhere else and in reality 100 times worse. So please don't try to say they don't take it personal. We've seen plenty of clips on ESPN that they do.



I think you follow basketball. Do you remember when that Love kid from Oregon spurned the home town school and his dad's alma mater to go to UCLA? You don't think those fans took it personally? Come on, don't be naive. It happens EVERYWHERE! Least of all at BYU.

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Uh, no I'm not, I am questioning bronco's philosophy. Its not that hard to understand that. I am saying that its a stupid policy. i understand that i am in the minority on this. I think it cost us kona's services. I don't argue that kona' saying he is commited and then still going after the coaches asked him not to is lame. I don't argue that kona screwed byu by committing and then doing that. I am just arguing that in this case they should not have pulled his scholarship and let him go. If he chose to commit to byu after tripping to notre dame, well then you KNOW for sure if he was commited to byu or not. we don't have to 'question' it because he is tripping and make a decsiion right then. we could have waited until wednesday. it was stupid to force him not to take the trip. it was also stupid for kona to take it after byu asked him not to. the whole situation just sucks.[/quote]



I get it. If he were just any average recruit, we pull the schollie, but sinse this one is a big star, we cater to him and let him do whatever he wants. Worked well for Coach Guy (see earlier post). I think I'd rather follow coach Peterson's model. 8)

gmj81 wrote:
Bronco took Mars approach to the situation.

Result: 6 years, 2 kids and counting! :D





As a sidenote, I saw an ex get dumped the week before her wedding, after she sent out invitations, by letter. Recruiting an eternal mate can be rough business - VERY cut-throat... :blush: