Allow me to resurrect this dead horse

After reading a lot of posts and news reports on this story, my final conclusion is that I have more respect for Bronco.



PS I appreciate your comments McGregor.

The pipeline to Kahuku is the church first and foremost and then the history of those poly's that played there in years past. Robert just happens to be one of them that played there in the past.

imuakahuku wrote:
The pipeline to Kahuku is the church first and foremost and then the history of those poly's that played there in years past. Robert just happens to be one of them that played there in the past.

Help us understand Kahuku and the players and families there. Why so wishy wash? What is it about that area that coaches have to walk on egg shells around these recruits?

Why can't the Teo clan (and now Schwenke) take responsibility for their actions, rather than focus their disapointment on BYU? (I would have literally kicked shiloahs ass if he were my kid)

Why is there a feeling that name schools with terrible results can get the attention of these kids (UW and ND haven't been good in half a decade+ while BYU is one of the winningest programs in the country)



I have to believe that some of this is indirectly related to the Teo issues, which led to Jamora looking around and now Schwenke. (and if the pipeline from Kahuku->BYU is the church then what does it mean when a kid says he prayed about it and is 100% sure that BYU is the place for him... then takes a trip after Bronco tells him what the consequences would be?)



I also happen to believe that Bronco did nothing wrong here and I'm really starting to get sick of what I see as a primadonna attitude that surrounds these kids and their families.



With all the success that BYU is having with recruits around the country, I think Kahuku should be worried that BYU will stop calling on them as much. BYU doesn't need Kahuku as much as Kahuku needs BYU. They don't seem to get that.



(Dave Rose is so lucky that he doesn't have to recruit the islands to put together a top 20 team....)

craigoscarson wrote:

The pipeline to Kahuku is the church first and foremost and then the history of those poly's that played there in years past. Robert just happens to be one of them that played there in the past.

Help us understand Kahuku and the players and families there. Why so wishy wash?



Why can't the Teo clan (and now Schwenke) take responsibility for their actions, rather than focus their disapointment on BYU? (I would have literally kicked shiloahs ass if he were my kid)



Why is there a feeling that name schools with terrible results can get the attention of these kids (UW and ND haven't been good in half a decade+ while BYU is one of the winningest programs in the country)

You bring up a strong & key point here. The "integrity" issue. When I was growing up - my Dad drilled it into me that "my word" was my bond. I was raised on stories about "Honest Abe." Abraham Lincoln got that name as a youth - because he kept his word! It was important to him - and folks in his community. There are numerous true stories of Lincoln walking miles - to return 6 cents and books becasause he gave his word & his integrity was on the line.



Now - today - people read or hear of those stories & they think they are stupid stories - or that Lincoln was foolish. You see - today you have to "look out for yourself!!" So - your word, and even contracts (ala Nick Saban, Pete Carrol & other sports figures) give their word, sign binding contracts & then break them because something else comes along which is more beneficial.



It's a sickness now that blankets our society - integrity is out the window - it's inconvenient - an impediment. It's all about me, myself & what I perceive as "the best right now" - depending on how the wind blows. Ultimately - this self interest (which is important, but must be tempered) has an underlying selfish - self interest. Integrity & Teamwork are the casualties. Ultimately - teamwork triumphs over selfish Prima-donna's. Kona probably did Bronco & the Cougar Team a favor.



Pathetic. Lincoln had it right.

craigoscarson wrote:



I have to believe that some of this is indirectly related to the Teo issues, which led to Jamora looking around and now Schwenke. (and if the pipeline from Kahuku->BYU is the church then what does it mean when a kid says he prayed about it and is 100% sure that BYU is the place for him... then takes a trip after Bronco tells him what the consequences would be?)

I do not believe this played into either scenario, at least, not like we think. Word is that Shiloah's parents were really upset with him, and actually thanked Bronco for handling it the way he did. No bitterness from teh family. Word is that Brnco also put a call in to Sark, and helped Shiloah find a place to land. Another reason for people to be indebted to Bronco. I think the Jamora de-commit has more to do with the kid either wanting to pay with his cousin, or not thinking he can live the HC and not wanting to serve a mission than it being Shiloah bad mouthing BYU. And same with Schwenke. I think it is harder for some of these Hawaiian kids to live the HC than we might think, and when that reality sets in, some of them back out for their own personal reasons. It also makes it easier for them to back out on missions at other schools than at BYU. Not condemning them for this, just stating it as a reality in recruiting some of them.

Lawboy wrote:

I have to believe that some of this is indirectly related to the Teo issues, which led to Jamora looking around and now Schwenke. (and if the pipeline from Kahuku->BYU is the church then what does it mean when a kid says he prayed about it and is 100% sure that BYU is the place for him... then takes a trip after Bronco tells him what the consequences would be?)

I do not believe this played into either scenario, at least, not like we think. Word is that Shiloah's parents were really upset with him, and actually thanked Bronco for handling it the way he did. No bitterness from teh family. Word is that Brnco also put a call in to Sark, and helped Shiloah find a place to land. Another reason for people to be indebted to Bronco. I think the Jamora de-commit has more to do with the kid either wanting to pay with his cousin, or not thinking he can live the HC and not wanting to serve a mission than it being Shiloah bad mouthing BYU. And same with Schwenke. I think it is harder for some of these Hawaiian kids to live the HC than we might think, and when that reality sets in, some of them back out for their own personal reasons. It also makes it easier for them to back out on missions at other schools than at BYU. Not condemning them for this, just stating it as a reality in recruiting some of them.

I would then say that it indeed was indirectly effected by the Teo situation. Those kids know they how they're living right now will get them in the same scenario that it got Shiloah in.



If that's the case, then the only pipeline from Kahuku that's closing up is the one we want; the incapable of living the honor code pipeline.



Then the next questions to ask are: 1. do the parents know? 2. why are these lds kids involved in this behavior

I wish people would understand Shiloh better. He made a mistake twice (that we know of). After the recruit party, he and only one other player admitted to Bronco that they had drunk while several other current players including the one who provided the alcohol all lied. Shilo looked Bronco in the eye and said yes I did coach and I will do my best to not let it happen again. Unfortunately it did happen again and this time he lied the same as those other players but got caught. Shiloh was growing quite a bit and his parents were so glad for Bronco's mentorship. Shiloh had even hinted to his parents that he was considering going on a mission. Don't know if that happens now but he was definitely growing because of his being there. All the Te'o families love Bronco and Shilo's parents were very embarassed and upset with what happened. This I know but I read on here how Shilo is bad mouthing BYU and convincing others to not go etc. Where did you guys here that because I haven't heard a peep out of Shilo. A side question I have is who provided him the beer to get drunk? Especially since most of his friends there are current f-ball players. Did he "rat" them out? Did he rat anyone else out durning the "incident"? No. Please stop being so harsh on the young man who had grown quite a bit.



As for Kona I personally believe that they were not really interested in ND but wanted to take advantage of the free trip. Judge that however you want but it was legal, within his rights, and ND was aware of his commitment so they knew they had a snowball's chance of landing him but still bought him the ticket. I think he would have signed with BYU had the offer stood. I also think if I were in Bronco's shoes I probably would not have rescinded the offer because of the number of players that they already have promised scholies to and are waiting for some to come available. If he were pressed with finding recruits to give them to I would probably have pulled it myself, but they have been claiming to have too many recruits and not enough scholarships this year which means they shouldn't have a problem with finding a replacement for Kona's had he signed with ND (I believe Kaveinga is one of them they were looking to give a scholie to). Worse case send Robert or Doman out to talk with the family. But it is what it is.

The relationship between Kahuku and BYU is mutual. Neither needs the other while both benefit from it. The kids that BYU offers also get recruited by other schools. That is what started this to begin with.

As for their behavior, I have heard that a few LDS kids in Utah are involved in this very behavior as well. I heard Harvey Unga wasn't perfect before coming to the Y. He has been the example of how kids with skeletons in their closet can change and succeed at BYU.

imuakahuku wrote:
I wish people would understand Shiloh better. He made a mistake twice (that we know of). After the recruit party, he and only one other player admitted to Bronco that they had drunk while several other current players including the one who provided the alcohol all lied. Shilo looked Bronco in the eye and said yes I did coach and I will do my best to not let it happen again. Unfortunately it did happen again and this time he lied the same as those other players but got caught. Shiloh was growing quite a bit and his parents were so glad for Bronco's mentorship. Shiloh had even hinted to his parents that he was considering going on a mission. Don't know if that happens now but he was definitely growing because of his being there. All the Te'o families love Bronco and Shilo's parents were very embarassed and upset with what happened. This I know but I read on here how Shilo is bad mouthing BYU and convincing others to not go etc. Where did you guys here that because I haven't heard a peep out of Shilo. A side question I have is who provided him the beer to get drunk? Especially since most of his friends there are current f-ball players. Did he "rat" them out? Did he rat anyone else out durning the "incident"? No. Please stop being so harsh on the young man who had grown quite a bit.

Does the Teo family have any younger brothers playing football??? More that we could possibly hear of in the future???



All this drama just seemed to happen when Manti came into the picture. I'm not trying to blame the family or anything. Just curious if there might me more drama like this in the future???

Shiloh's dad posted on TBS that he still supports BYU and will encourage all LDS athletes to go to BYU, this despite posters saying similiar things about his son/Kahuku as some are saying here. He also said that Bronco did NOT call sark, though he offered to if Shiloh wanted him to.

BigCougsFan,don't have to worry about it,Craigo has already declared programs direction,"Kahuku is dead to me".Thanks for the insight Imuakahuku,and the voice of knowledge and rationality.



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imuakahuku wrote:
I wish people would understand Shiloh better. He made a mistake twice (that we know of). After the recruit party, he and only one other player admitted to Bronco that they had drunk while several other current players including the one who provided the alcohol all lied. Shilo looked Bronco in the eye and said yes I did coach and I will do my best to not let it happen again. Unfortunately it did happen again and this time he lied the same as those other players but got caught. Shiloh was growing quite a bit and his parents were so glad for Bronco's mentorship. Shiloh had even hinted to his parents that he was considering going on a mission. Don't know if that happens now but he was definitely growing because of his being there. All the Te'o families love Bronco and Shilo's parents were very embarassed and upset with what happened. This I know but I read on here how Shilo is bad mouthing BYU and convincing others to not go etc. Where did you guys here that because I haven't heard a peep out of Shilo. A side question I have is who provided him the beer to get drunk? Especially since most of his friends there are current f-ball players. Did he "rat" them out? Did he rat anyone else out durning the "incident"? No. Please stop being so harsh on the young man who had grown quite a bit.



As for Kona I personally believe that they were not really interested in ND but wanted to take advantage of the free trip. Judge that however you want but it was legal, within his rights, and ND was aware of his commitment so they knew they had a snowball's chance of landing him but still bought him the ticket. I think he would have signed with BYU had the offer stood. I also think if I were in Bronco's shoes I probably would not have rescinded the offer because of the number of players that they already have promised scholies to and are waiting for some to come available. If he were pressed with finding recruits to give them to I would probably have pulled it myself, but they have been claiming to have too many recruits and not enough scholarships this year which means they shouldn't have a problem with finding a replacement for Kona's had he signed with ND (I believe Kaveinga is one of them they were looking to give a scholie to). Worse case send Robert or Doman out to talk with the family. But it is what it is.

The relationship between Kahuku and BYU is mutual. Neither needs the other while both benefit from it. The kids that BYU offers also get recruited by other schools. That is what started this to begin with.

As for their behavior, I have heard that a few LDS kids in Utah are involved in this very behavior as well. I heard Harvey Unga wasn't perfect before coming to the Y. He has been the example of how kids with skeletons in their closet can change and succeed at BYU.

shiloah was badmouthing byu and max hall, others during the vegas bowl on facebook and actually said "go utes" before the U game on his fb page too... this is something that led me to believe that he has bad blood for the Y.

Sounds like a mature response from a young man who harbors no hard feelings and takes full responsibility for his actions. He obviously understands that it's not BYU's fault that he chose to drink and drive or lie about it, and he holds himself completely responsible for getting himself dismissed from BYU...

craigoscarson wrote:

I wish people would understand Shiloh better. He made a mistake twice (that we know of). After the recruit party, he and only one other player admitted to Bronco that they had drunk while several other current players including the one who provided the alcohol all lied. Shilo looked Bronco in the eye and said yes I did coach and I will do my best to not let it happen again. Unfortunately it did happen again and this time he lied the same as those other players but got caught. Shiloh was growing quite a bit and his parents were so glad for Bronco's mentorship. Shiloh had even hinted to his parents that he was considering going on a mission. Don't know if that happens now but he was definitely growing because of his being there. All the Te'o families love Bronco and Shilo's parents were very embarassed and upset with what happened. This I know but I read on here how Shilo is bad mouthing BYU and convincing others to not go etc. Where did you guys here that because I haven't heard a peep out of Shilo. A side question I have is who provided him the beer to get drunk? Especially since most of his friends there are current f-ball players. Did he "rat" them out? Did he rat anyone else out durning the "incident"? No. Please stop being so harsh on the young man who had grown quite a bit.



As for Kona I personally believe that they were not really interested in ND but wanted to take advantage of the free trip. Judge that however you want but it was legal, within his rights, and ND was aware of his commitment so they knew they had a snowball's chance of landing him but still bought him the ticket. I think he would have signed with BYU had the offer stood. I also think if I were in Bronco's shoes I probably would not have rescinded the offer because of the number of players that they already have promised scholies to and are waiting for some to come available. If he were pressed with finding recruits to give them to I would probably have pulled it myself, but they have been claiming to have too many recruits and not enough scholarships this year which means they shouldn't have a problem with finding a replacement for Kona's had he signed with ND (I believe Kaveinga is one of them they were looking to give a scholie to). Worse case send Robert or Doman out to talk with the family. But it is what it is.

The relationship between Kahuku and BYU is mutual. Neither needs the other while both benefit from it. The kids that BYU offers also get recruited by other schools. That is what started this to begin with.

As for their behavior, I have heard that a few LDS kids in Utah are involved in this very behavior as well. I heard Harvey Unga wasn't perfect before coming to the Y. He has been the example of how kids with skeletons in their closet can change and succeed at BYU.

shiloah was badmouthing byu and max hall, others during the vegas bowl on facebook and actually said "go utes" before the U game on his fb page too... this is something that led me to believe that he has bad blood for the Y.

Ouch!!! On Facebook??? Pretty darn public - goes National - International. "Go Utes"??????? Wowzi!!!! That's like cheering for the Nazi's during WWII!!! I'm actually taken aback - he's grinding that ax - overtime.

:angry: :angry: :sick:

I know Imuakahuku. We were once in a ward together, and imuakahuku is one of the nicest persons I've ever met, a stalwart Cougar fan, and a brilliant person. I appreciate his insights into Kahuku high and the Polynesian population there.



That being said, I still assert that Kona was not minding his own business when one day, ND called, offered a free trip, and Kona then accepted to see his friends.



Rather, Kona had been getting his name out there for months (which is why ND established contact in the first place), and the Cougar staff knew it. They spoke to Kona about it, and told him to knock it off. He didn't believe them, and when Bronco finally issued an ultimatum, Kona said, "Hey, I've got an offer to ND. There's no harm in testing Bronco's word."



This isn't about a free trip. It's about disrespecting BYU. Bronco has earned the right to be treated with respect by 17-year-old recruits.



May Kona enjoy South Bend.

Ddawg wrote:

imuakahuku wrote:
I wish people would understand Shiloh better. He made a mistake twice (that we know of). After the recruit party, he and only one other player admitted to Bronco that they had drunk while several other current players including the one who provided the alcohol all lied. Shilo looked Bronco in the eye and said yes I did coach and I will do my best to not let it happen again. Unfortunately it did happen again and this time he lied the same as those other players but got caught. Shiloh was growing quite a bit and his parents were so glad for Bronco's mentorship. Shiloh had even hinted to his parents that he was considering going on a mission. Don't know if that happens now but he was definitely growing because of his being there. All the Te'o families love Bronco and Shilo's parents were very embarassed and upset with what happened. This I know but I read on here how Shilo is bad mouthing BYU and convincing others to not go etc. Where did you guys here that because I haven't heard a peep out of Shilo. A side question I have is who provided him the beer to get drunk? Especially since most of his friends there are current f-ball players. Did he "rat" them out? Did he rat anyone else out durning the "incident"? No. Please stop being so harsh on the young man who had grown quite a bit.



As for Kona I personally believe that they were not really interested in ND but wanted to take advantage of the free trip. Judge that however you want but it was legal, within his rights, and ND was aware of his commitment so they knew they had a snowball's chance of landing him but still bought him the ticket. I think he would have signed with BYU had the offer stood. I also think if I were in Bronco's shoes I probably would not have rescinded the offer because of the number of players that they already have promised scholies to and are waiting for some to come available. If he were pressed with finding recruits to give them to I would probably have pulled it myself, but they have been claiming to have too many recruits and not enough scholarships this year which means they shouldn't have a problem with finding a replacement for Kona's had he signed with ND (I believe Kaveinga is one of them they were looking to give a scholie to). Worse case send Robert or Doman out to talk with the family. But it is what it is.

The relationship between Kahuku and BYU is mutual. Neither needs the other while both benefit from it. The kids that BYU offers also get recruited by other schools. That is what started this to begin with.

As for their behavior, I have heard that a few LDS kids in Utah are involved in this very behavior as well. I heard Harvey Unga wasn't perfect before coming to the Y. He has been the example of how kids with skeletons in their closet can change and succeed at BYU.

shiloah was badmouthing byu and max hall, others during the vegas bowl on facebook and actually said "go utes" before the U game on his fb page too... this is something that led me to believe that he has bad blood for the Y.

Ouch!!! On Facebook??? Pretty darn public - goes National - International. "Go Utes"??????? Wowzi!!!! That's like cheering for the Nazi's during WWII!!! I'm actually taken aback - he's grinding that ax - overtime.

:angry: :angry: :sick:

Well oh well shiloah, looks like we're not going to miss you AT ALL. As a matter of fact, not coming to BYU is turning out to be the only right decision you have (among very few in your future) made.

Get lost kid, YOU ARE NOT WELCOME AT BYU

mcgregor wrote:
I know Imuakahuku. We were once in a ward and imuakahuku is one of the nicest persons I've ever met, a stalwart Cougar fan, and a brilliant person. I appreciate his insights into Kahuku high and the Polynesian population there.



That being said, I still assert that Kona was not minding his own business when one day, ND called, offered a free trip, and Kona then accepted to see his friends.



Rather, Kona had been getting his name out there for months (which is why ND established contact in the first place), and the Cougar staff knew it. They spoke to Kona about it, and told him to knock it off. He didn't believe them, and when Bronco finally issued an ultimatum, Kona said, "Hey, I've got an offer to ND. There's no harm in testing Bronco's word."



This isn't about a free trip. It's about disrespecting BYU. Bronco has earned the right to be treated with respect by 17-year-old recruits.

Like everyone on this and the previous board,i respect your opinion on this situation McGregor.However i think it's fair to point out that when you assert what you do as above re the way this played out,you are speculating about motive but not about opportunity.I'd say that the fair thing to do is to allow all the information to come out before rendering judgement regarding the mind set of this young man.It seems to me he has been much too much "thrown under the bus' already on this board,especially as he violated no NCAA rules in the process.



*edited by mod to fix quotes

clemdiggitydog1 wrote:
especially as he violated no NCAA rules in the process.

NCAA rules are a baseline. Bronco is in his right to set a higher standard for the young men he wants on his team. You're cheering on the wrong school if you are only going to judge their fans and players by NCAA standards.



As far as being thrown under a bus, he crawled under that bus long before anyone had a chance to throw him there.

You know sometimes it may seem to some of us who've been cougar fans since possibly longer than you"ve been alive,that we are cheering for a different team than the one you are.Thankfully there is no litmus test to be a fan. other than my love for the school i graduated from and am supporting with a considerable amount of money,I have nothing to offer but to be supportive.I have my opinion on the situation,and you have yours.We'll see if either of us ever knows the entire story,and until then I'm gonna give Kona and the other future kids from Kahuku the benefit of the doubt.

clemdiggitydog1 wrote:
I'm gonna give Kona... the benefit of the doubt.

Because we all know that not enough info has come out to make any judgements. :roll:



Those who want to remain ignorant will remain ignorant. To most everyone else, the numerous articles and numerous quotes make things appear pretty cut-and-dried.

yea I'll remain ignorant Mars,nothing like you however when calling Austin Collie anything and everything but a half-wiited morally degenerate Yewt,as you did last year when in possesion of the "facts",as you call them.some people may want to reserve judgement,and you term that reticence "ignorance".We'll let history decide.