The QB Race is OVER!

Mars wrote:

You unsuccessfully made the case for Heaps to start a month ago. What you did do was come here and propagandize the young man. He is NOT the greatest player to ever grace the campus of BYU.

Name me a QB that has EVER been at BYU and looked like the clear-cut starter as a freshman 5 months before the first game tipped off- I don't think there is one!



I don't think Heaps will go undefeated his freshman year, in or out of conference. I don't think he'll win a conference championship. But I DO think he has a chance to go 11-2, get the team a Top 15 ranking, and be the BEST freshman quarterback BYU has ever seen.



It might not go down that way, but the potential is clear and people are excited. There's a train rolling through Provo right now, and you can hear the rumblings beginning through the media. There's no point standing on the tracks and trying to slow this puppy down, because it ain't slowin' any time soon...

Wow man that's a ballsy prediction, but I like it! and I wish i could be that optomistic. I hope you're right. That would be incredible.

nix wrote:
Sno, I usually like your comments on this site, but you've only got half the story on this one. Jake was very sick the first week or two he was here. The kid could barely get out of bed. It had nothing to do with being lazy or entitled. The kid is a very hard worker and very mature for his age (If you haven't noticed, the players being interviewed seem to like Jake, like Brian Logan, Brandon Bradley, etc.). Doman absolutely loves Jake, so I'm not sure why you're making it sound like he doesn't. Doman just said yesterday that every second it took to recruit Jake was worth it. Honestly, I couldn't care less who wins the job. I want the best player to play and the coaches are going about it the right way by giving everyone a shot at it.

I agree. I think it is hard to say that Jake is not a hard worker or good leader..etc. I think Sno is reading too much into some small comments made by a few people.



At the most Jake was probably a little excited to finally be on his own and was enjoying the moments of freedom. Or like this poster above, maybe he was sick. I don't know, nor do I care, but to suggest that he is a premadonna type is just reading too much between the lines. it is true jake is still a freshman, but its clear he didn't get to where he is now (best qb recruit in the country) based on talent alone. Lots of hard work and discipline were were required.

Mars wrote:

You unsuccessfully made the case for Heaps to start a month ago. What you did do was come here and propagandize the young man. He is NOT the greatest player to ever grace the campus of BYU.

Name me a QB that has EVER been at BYU and looked like the clear-cut starter as a freshman 5 months before the first game tipped off- I don't think there is one!



I don't think Heaps will go undefeated his freshman year, in or out of conference. I don't think he'll win a conference championship. But I DO think he has a chance to go 11-2, get the team a Top 15 ranking, and be the BEST freshman quarterback BYU has ever seen.



It might not go down that way, but the potential is clear and people are excited. There's a train rolling through Provo right now, and you can hear the rumblings beginning through the media. There's no point standing on the tracks and trying to slow this puppy down, because it ain't slowin' any time soon...

I wouldn't be shocked if we went 11-2 again if our defense ended up being better than it was last year. but because i don't think that will be the case, I don't see it happening. to get to 8 or 9 would be a real accomplishment given what we lost last year. I think our offense wont skip a beat. We will have some different looks this year that will keep not enable teams like tcu to gameplan so easily for us and keep them on their toes more. Our defense though is young and totally a question mark for me. i think our season will depend on how good the defense ends up being.

I have no problem with coaches and veteran players reeling in freshmen; even if it's a small issue or simple concern about them getting big heads too early. (Bret Engeman never survived his piss poor attitude his freshman year...I was at the spring game where Keisel, Denney, and others were just teeing off on him and then highfiving on the sidelines)



There's the BYU and Mendenhall way and then there's the door. Heaps will not and should not get special treatment; doing so would hurt the team and Jakes improvement in the future.



We don't need any Terelle Pryors or Jimmy Clausens on this team; guys that didn't win and never matured in college (at least til now)



I have little concern about Jake and his attitude (he surrounds himself with people that give good advice and he takes it); but just like any freshman, he's not perfect; he needs to stay humble and when he isn't, he's going to hear it from those in charge; maybe even moreso because of the potential he has to start early.



I've gotta say that the reports from camp are encouraging; but I think you only start Heaps if it's a no brainer after spring, summer, and fall. We're not there yet.

11-2 with our lack of depth at linebacker, defensive end, inexperienced tight ends, and potential true frosh qb would be a miracle.

I'll take 4 losses this season happily if Heaps starts and I'll start buying tickets to the 2013 national championship game.

jmvcougar wrote:

kitic77 wrote:
You unsuccessfully made the case for Heaps to start a month ago. What you did do was come here and propagandize the young man. He is NOT the greatest player to ever grace the campus of BYU.

Name me a QB that has EVER been at BYU and looked like the clear-cut starter as a freshman 5 months before the first game tipped off- I don't think there is one!



I don't think Heaps will go undefeated his freshman year, in or out of conference. I don't think he'll win a conference championship. But I DO think he has a chance to go 11-2, get the team a Top 15 ranking, and be the BEST freshman quarterback BYU has ever seen.



It might not go down that way, but the potential is clear and people are excited. There's a train rolling through Provo right now, and you can hear the rumblings beginning through the media. There's no point standing on the tracks and trying to slow this puppy down, because it ain't slowin' any time soon...

Wow man that's a ballsy prediction, but I like it! and I wish i could be that optomistic. I hope you're right. That would be incredible.

My hope would be that we could say these things about our freshmen just about every year.

kitic77 wrote:

regarding Doman's comment about being a team player: Max Hall was not really a great team player. Many people couldn't stand him. Alot of people wanted Cade Cooper to be the starter before he lis franc-ed the crap out of his ankle.



Max Hall completed 99.8% of his passes to Pitta and Collie his Junior year. I've heard Harvey didn't like Max and if you look at the stats from Max's senior year all of the sudden we don't check down to Unga in the flats, we check down to Pitta every chance we get.



I made my case a month ago about Heaps being that starter and that is what HAS to happen to move this program forward for many reasons folks and that is regardless of whether Heaps comes to voluntary workouts with the peasants. All Hail Jake Heaps.

Wow, I really don't even know why I'm taking the time to respond to you. But here goes. We get it. You have an agenda and anything less than Heaps being named starter, team captain and offensive coordinator tomorrow is simply the worst decision the coaches could ever make.



First, you know nothing about the Hall-Cooper situation. Cooper had his ankle completely shattered, it wasn't a lisfranc injury. Cooper then transferred and never stuck at any of the schools (yes he went to multiple ones) after BYU. And all the reports coming out of spring ball that year, while close, the race was not being won by Cooper.



Second your utter hyperbole of Hall throwing only to Pitta and Collie is simply laughable. Would like me to show you how much more effective Hall was throwing to those two guys than anyone else on the team and it wasn't even close. Unless you are suggesting that Hall was purposefully threw bad balls to fellow teammates in order to make his buddies look bad. That Hall was all about himself and his two cronies and not about BYU and winning and that somehow BYU coaches were okay with this.



And in case you missed it, we checked down to Pitta to the tune of a 10 win season and top 15 finish.



You unsuccessfully made the case for Heaps to start a month ago. What you did do was come here and propagandize the young man. He is NOT the greatest player to ever grace the campus of BYU. He may OR may not turn out to be a good quaterback. So far through all of five practices, it does look like he is on his way to being a good one.



But if his attitude is anything like yours and he believes his teammates are "peasants" then I don't want him as the QB of BYU and I bet a lot of the players won't either. Coaches can and will see that if a player thinks he's better than his teammates and they won't stand for it. QB is the single most teammate-dependent position there is. He can't do ANYTHING without the support of his teammates. And if he treats his teammates like "peasants" that will be exactly what will happen.



You really need to change your moniker because I don't think you know anything about the great history of BYU. Go back and read about the greats at BYU and how they had to fight and struggle to succeed in Provo and didn't have anything handed to them - let alone the starting job less than two months after joining the program.

Guess what Kitc! BYU Football is not the Gospel of Jesus Christ and I did not just bear my testimony. You take this way too seriously. I love BYU but I'm not psychotic like you are. Take a look at the QB poll in the thread list for Football 79% of all people on here that took the time to vote want Jake Heaps to start. Almost everyone does but you.

Heaps will start because he's the best QB in camp.Period.Doman is reminding the fans what their leader at QB position has to do to meet program expectations as a leader.By so doing he allows all doubt to be removed that Heaps was given the job for some other reason than that he earned it on all levels.Heaps is suprisingly mature according to his teamates,such as Brian Logan,who should know a lot better than ANYONE on this board.To read more into Doman's statement than that is to editorialize and simply be promoting your own agenda/opinion.

QuarterbackU wrote:
Guess what Kitc! BYU Football is not the Gospel of Jesus Christ and I did not just bear my testimony. You take this way too seriously. I love BYU but I'm not psychotic like you are. Take a look at the QB poll in the thread list for Football 79% of all people on here that took the time to vote want Jake Heaps to start. Almost everyone does but you.

Umm, go look at the thread in the poll again. You will see that I voted for Heaps and gave my reasons why. I do take my BYU football seriously. I simply don't like people who speak in hyperbolic untruths. You trashed our starting QB the last three years who became the winningest QB in school history and ranks only behind Ty Demter in yards, completions and touchdowns and is top 5 in passer rating.



Your desire to see Heaps start was not based on any production by the kid. It was based on all hype and your man-crush on him.



Heaps is neither the end nor the beginning of the BYU football program. The program will progress with or without him. Granted, it might be a faster ascent with Jake. A month ago, Jake had done NOTHING to deserve the praise you were thrusting upon him.



Since that time, spring ball has begun and he has started to show what potential he has. He has performed very well and all signs point to continued progress. I said in the poll thread that if Nelson wants the starting job he has to show he is head and shoulders better than Heaps and through the first week and a half of spring ball he hasn't done that. That's a bad sign for Riley and a good sign for Jake.



You are correct that BYU isn't the gospel and you didn't bear your testimony but your adulation of Heaps is borderline worship. I'm not psychotic, I'm just very passionaite about BYU sports. I follow them with great fervor, whether I'm here in Utah or stationed overseas in Iraq or Afghanistan. I know of what I talk.



You will never see me throw around made up statistics like you do ("99.8% of his passes to Pitt and Collie") or spout unfounded rumors like you did ("a lot fo people wanted Cade Cooper to be the starter"). You will see me make well thought out opinions that I back up with real statistics and facts.

kitic77 wrote:

Guess what Kitc! BYU Football is not the Gospel of Jesus Christ and I did not just bear my testimony. You take this way too seriously. I love BYU but I'm not psychotic like you are. Take a look at the QB poll in the thread list for Football 79% of all people on here that took the time to vote want Jake Heaps to start. Almost everyone does but you.

Umm, go look at the thread in the poll again. You will see that I voted for Heaps and gave my reasons why. I do take my BYU football seriously. I simply don't like people who speak in hyperbolic untruths. You trashed our starting QB the last three years who became the winningest QB in school history and ranks only behind Ty Demter in yards, completions and touchdowns and is top 5 in passer rating.



Your desire to see Heaps start was not based on any production by the kid. It was based on all hype and your man-crush on him.



Heaps is neither the end nor the beginning of the BYU football program. The program will progress with or without him. Granted, it might be a faster ascent with Jake. A month ago, Jake had done NOTHING to deserve the praise you were thrusting upon him.



Since that time, spring ball has begun and he has started to show what potential he has. He has performed very well and all signs point to continued progress. I said in the poll thread that if Nelson wants the starting job he has to show he is head and shoulders better than Heaps and through the first week and a half of spring ball he hasn't done that. That's a bad sign for Riley and a good sign for Jake.



You are correct that BYU isn't the gospel and you didn't bear your testimony but your adulation of Heaps is borderline worship. I'm not psychotic, I'm just very passionaite about BYU sports. I follow them with great fervor, whether I'm here in Utah or stationed overseas in Iraq or Afghanistan. I know of what I talk.



You will never see me throw around made up statistics like you do ("99.8% of his passes to Pitt and Collie") or spout unfounded rumors like you did ("a lot fo people wanted Cade Cooper to be the starter"). You will see me make well thought out opinions that I back up with real statistics and facts.

since Kitic is way too decent a person to say this,allow me.He,Kitic,has been posting very reasonable,thoughtful,informative posts on this or another site for years.Everyone who reads his offerings would agree,not always with his conclusions,but with the fact that he should and is taken seriously when he posts.You, on the other hand have not yet established that credibility.Until you do,it would behoove you to be courteous and a little open-minded,and stick to discussing the issue /argument/discussion at hand,rather than launching into ridiculous ad hominim attacks on the posters who have established a track record.Not sayin' you're not capable,time will tell.

My desire to have Heaps start is based on the fact that BYU, nationally does not get enough respect. In order to get respect in the BCS era you have to break the BCS. That's why Utah has their foot on our throat; because they have actually DONE SOMETHING!!!



In addition my desire to have Jake start is not based on my "man-crush" it is based on PRODUCTION. See below:



2008: KingCo 4A All Conference Co-Offensive MVP; KingCo 4A All Conference Quarterback; Seattle Times MVP; Seattle PI MVP; Gatorade Washington State Player of the Year; AP State Player of the year All Classes AP 4A Player of the year; AP 4A Quarterback of the year NFL 7 on 7 Passing Tournament MVP; Big Kahuna MVP; UW Passing Tournament MVP; New Level Badger Camp 1st Team QB; US Army All American invitee 2010 class. Statistics: 203-312 (.651) for 2910 yards, 38 TD's, 4 Int's 7 Rushing TD's. This is just 2008.



If you look at his stats his senior year:

He went 213 of 352 for 3191 yards. He had a .605% completion rate and threw 45 touchdowns and 7 interceptions.



He also: Led Skyline to a 14-0 season, as well as a Washington 3A State Championship as a sophomore in 2007 and as a junior in 2008. Threw for 3,103 yards and 31 touchdowns while earning 1st Team All-League quarterback and 3A AP All-State honors.



2-year totals: 405-648 (.625) for 6104 yards and 69 TD's, 11 Int's, 21 Rushing TD's.



Those ARE real statistics and facts. Football is not all about statistics and facts though. If you look at the game film on him and watch the Elite 11 Competition on ESPN U, you can also see that this kid is incredible. Prior to Heaps coming Jason Munns was my favorite for the starting job.



I thought by over exaggerating how many balls Hall threw to Pitta and Collie (99.8%) that you would know I was joking...come on man! :) I was joking.



Being a football fan for me is about passion and emotion not about statistics and facts. I can get statistics and facts at work, BYU football is a release from all of that. It is supposed to be fun! It is okay to have an opinion about something and regardless of all the facts and stats just by watching Jake play the game, I am willing to go out on a limb and make a judgement call that he is the man for the job and much better suited to be a BYU QB than our Option QB Riley Nelson. Most on this board seem afraid to let it all out. Just discuss the game don't worry about getting blasted by the board. I'm fine with being blasted all day long. It's fun to talk football with you guys. I appreciate Mars' comments. He has the guts to call it like he sees it.

Unfortuantely, none of those stats are COLLEGE stats - which is what Heaps is now playing.



Remember Ron Powlus? He started four years in the highest level in Pennsylvania and lost a grand total of ZERO games in high school. He then threw four touchdowns in his first college game causing Beano Cook to practically have an aneurysm on air and wonder aloud how many Heisman's he would win.



Remember Paul Shoemaker? He was BYU's version of Powlus. Never lost in high school. Was going to be a complete stud. Didn't even start half a year for BYU.



I'm very high on Heaps and his future. I think he's going to be a very good QB. I just want to see him earn it - which by all accounts he seems to be doing throught the first half of spring ball. I simply will not appoint him the annointed one who can alone progress the BYU forward.



As to calling it like we see it, most of us on here do. I gaurantee you that if BYU starts to struggle or Heaps starts to struggle, I will definitely be calling it like I see it. But you can also count on me praising our team and players if they succeed. You can also count on me to do my darndest to find silver linings even when our team and players are struggling.



But yes, Mars most definitely has strong opinions and guts and is always willing to share.

i dont' know about any of you but i know that byu football is true just like i know that scout camp and efy is true. I here it all the time on fast sundays.

jonnylingo wrote:
i dont' know about any of you but i know that byu football is true just like i know that scout camp and efy is true. I here it all the time on fast sundays.

CougarCorner is also true.



and blue.



through and through.





Cougarblue is apocryphal and contains many truths mixed with error and should only be read with the spirit to protect against the fiery darts of the diabolical management and spammers.

snoscythe wrote:

snoscythe wrote:
Missed one:

Brandon Doman said

If it's not about BYU, if it's not about this team and this place, they won't start," he said. "That would be the most important criteria. I don't care how good they are, or who they are, or if they're the best player out there. If it isn't about the team, they're not going to play. They know that. Secondly, if it isn't about the team, they'll transfer. We understand the stakes in that case. I've been there.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700018631/BYU-football-Maintaining-unity-a-priority-for-Cougars.html

All Jake Heaps preached during the recruiting season was how awesome BYU is, he did more recruiting than what any coach could ever do for the school he truly believed in! He's a true Cougar all the way through, he has been putting his team first before he even officially committed. There's no way he will change his mentality now that he's on the team especially as a freshman.

Actions speak louder than words, and Heaps didn't impress with how he handled the "voluntary" workouts by showing up late, skipping, opting out of conditioning exercises etc. Yeah, he said the right things, but he certainly didn't act like a team player early on. He's improved since then after an intervention by some of the elder statesmen on the team, but Heaps is still miles behind the other guys in earning the respect of his teamates and coaches as a leader.



Given that context, it's pretty apparent that Doman was speaking about Heaps. If it's not a concern (if your 'best' player is a unifier/team player), why would Doman make this comment?

Good insight "Sno." Keep the insight coming. Thx.

8)

The race for QB is over? Someone please identify the fat lady (I hear her referred to regularly, but never identified), and let me know when she sang.

Mars wrote:


P.S.



Bronco/Doman/Anae are now OFFICIALLY giving both Lark and Nelson less passing plays than Heaps. The race remains over.

I've said all along that Heaps was the starter. In my mind...its been over ever since Heaps said he'd sign.



I'm sorry, but does anyone really think that Nielsen or Lark will really beat out Heaps? I just don't see it.



The ONLY way that I see Heaps NOT starting is if Mendenhall thinks he'll get killed in the UW/AFA/FSU gauntlet, and wants to let Nielsen take that abuse, and then have Heaps pick up the reins after the first few games.

Mars wrote:


P.S.



Bronco/Doman/Anae are now OFFICIALLY giving both Lark and Nelson less passing plays than Heaps. The race remains over.

I figure it's just as over as the predictions game was when the stats from the KState game were entered....