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Why I Detest The Honor Code

by Y 4 Ever · 4/22/2010

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C
Cougy_Monster
33311710 wrote:
33311710 wrote:



And for those of you who I just pissed off - who will BLINDLY support ANYTHING that comes out of BYU Headquarters regardless of rationale or reason...Riddle Me This:



When a BYU student "transgresses" and violates the honor code, why is it easier and faster to get their temple recommend back than it is to get back into school and back on the football team?


The BYU Honor Code is one example -- Missionary service is another. Many are worthy to hold a temple recommend but cannot serve a mission.



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Last I checked...you don't get "set apart" when you attend BYU. You don't receive a "calling" to attend BYU. And I'm pretty sure that a Church Authority doesn't sign your admission acceptance slip.



Please don't compare the BYU campus to the House of the Lord.


Numbers, I'm not sure why you are begging me to not compare BYU and the Temple. I never did that -- in fact that is exactly what you did when you compared the time it takes to return to BYU vsthe Temple. The comparison is yours. I'm trying to show you the differences.



My response in absolutely no way inferred that students are set apart -- did you honestly interpret it that way? If so I'm not surprised at your frustration with others' opinions. My point, since you seemed to miss it, is that the Church holds people (members or not) who represent the Church to a higher standard, whether the representation is official (missionary -- yes set apart) or unofficial but accepted by the public (student at BYU -- not set apart).



When I attended BYU's campus in Israel we were clearly told that we represented the Church and so we would be held to a higher standard (not set apart). No shorts (offensive to local cultures) , no dating (public affection between men/women is also offensive) , other BYU-type grooming standards in addition to standard temple recommend guidelines. The students stood out so clearly that locals would call "Mormons!" when we'd walk by. That kind of missionary work on a large scale means way more than having the occasional non-LDS student leave campus because he doesn't like the rules.



I liked longer hair in those days so I let it grow out somewhat while I was there. When I went to cash a check at the bank the teller asked me who I was and I said I was a BYU student. He responded that I couldn't be because I had shaggy hair. He wouldn't cash my check. I thought that was great. If I looked like a Mormon he would cash a check from another country because I could be trusted. If I looked like I didn't like the hairstyle of the honor code I couldn't be trusted. That bank teller trusted the honor code. I learned something from him and cut my hair ( I also needed the money :) ).


Oh...and one more thing - as I understand it, you DO have to be a member of the church in good standing to gain admission to the Temple...but last I checked, even non-LDS kids can attend BYU.




You were correct last time you checked. Anybody can attend and entrance or re-entrance is based on the honor code and CANNOT be based on whether you hold a temple recommend or the non-LDS kids couldn't get in. You can't have it both ways. Either BYU's admission standards should be based strictly on the temple recommend interview and timeline (which you appear to support) in which case only temple recommend holders would be accepted or the standards can be based on a separate honor code that allows anyone of any belief to attend as long as they adhere to the honor code standards. Come on, we can't really expect the non-LDS students to be temple worthy can we? Tithing? Accepting Joseph Smith? The honor code is EASIER for non-LDS kids to live than temple standards.

C
Cougy_Monster
33311710 wrote:


Anyway...look, I understand and respect the opinions of those who support the honor code.


Come on, you can't say you respect the opinions of those who support the honor code after posting this:


I HATE the honor code. Always have. Always will. I believe that, in its current incarnation and enforcement, the honor code is a hypocritical scourge on BYU athletics and on the University as a whole, and that it does much more harm than good - both to the current student body, and to the image of the University and the Church.



The "Honor Code" was created (in its current incarnation) by a faceless horde of acne-infested pencil-necked geeks who couldn't get a date on a Friday Night to save their lives (let alone find someone on campus willing to...uh...help them VIOLATE the honor code). These people were miserable, wretched human beings, and wanted the REST of us loyal BYU fans and/or alumni/students, to be miserable as well. And thus, the current Honor Code was born.



The tyranny that is today's "Honor Code Committee" continues this tradition of pencil-necked-geeks who wish they could get kicked out of school for gross honor code violations...but try as they might, they can't. And so they perpetuate the scourge that is the Honor Code - reigning with iron-fisted horror over students and (especially) athletes, doling out grossly exaggerated punishments to "offenders" who broke no laws and caused no physical or emotional harm to anyone but themselves.


Your tone, word choice, generalized disrespect and flippant mockery of things like chastity are likely why almost everybody on this board disagrees with you. Your message would be fine if the package weren't so rank.



How can you expect someone to take you seriously on the topic of the honor code when your writing portrays your mind as bitter, accusatory, disrespectful and insulting?



Here's a little life lesson: Who you are should be obvious. If you have to tell people you are respectful, then you aren't respectful. You can substitute any trait for "respectful."



Telling people who they should think you are despite who you really are based on past decisions is why the country has finally turned on Obama. You can only contradict yourself so many times before even the slowest minds feel uncomfortable.
Y
Y 4 Ever
Mars wrote:
I agree the atmosphere around it could be cleaned up. Spying and reporting as a virtue don't need to be a part of the system, for example.

Yeah. Snitches Get Stitches. F Da Police.


It almost hurts to say it....but I actually laughed out loud when I read this. There, I admitted it, Mars.
Y
Y 4 Ever
Cougy_Monster wrote:

Please don't compare the BYU campus to the House of the Lord.


Numbers, I'm not sure why you are begging me to not compare BYU and the Temple. I never did that -- in fact that is exactly what you did when you compared the time it takes to return to BYU vsthe Temple. The comparison is yours. I'm trying to show you the differences.




I never Begged you for jack. The word "please" was only included in my response to held ease your Sensitive Sensibilities.



You're right, I shouldn't have used the word "Compare". I should have said "equate".



Said Cougy Monster:
Don't be a fool. The answer is clear. The leaders of our Church (you know them as acne blah blah geeks blah blah) choose to enforce standards higher than those required for temple attendance for members who voluntarily enroll in institutions that represent the Church either officially or by public inference. The BYU Honor Code is one example -- Missionary service is another. Many are worthy to hold a temple recommend but cannot serve a mission.




Also, Mr. Monster, you DIRECTLY related the BYU Honor Code to Missionary Service. Let me speak plainly so as not to confuse you. Being a student at BYU is not a CALLING. You are not SET APART. Being a student at BYU is COMPLETELY different from serving a mission. Your comparison is weak and your logic is flawed.



P.S. interesting choice of Avatar for someone with such a POWERFUL testimony of the Honor Code. I mean, a child-abusing, wife-neglecting, raging alcoholic? Just sayin.
Y
Y 4 Ever
Cougy_Monster wrote:


Anyway...look, I understand and respect the opinions of those who support the honor code.


Come on, you can't say you respect the opinions of those who support the honor code after posting this:


I HATE the honor code. Always have. Always will. I believe that, in its current incarnation and enforcement, the honor code is a hypocritical scourge on BYU athletics and on the University as a whole, and that it does much more harm than good - both to the current student body, and to the image of the University and the Church.



The "Honor Code" was created (in its current incarnation) by a faceless horde of acne-infested pencil-necked geeks who couldn't get a date on a Friday Night to save their lives (let alone find someone on campus willing to...uh...help them VIOLATE the honor code). These people were miserable, wretched human beings, and wanted the REST of us loyal BYU fans and/or alumni/students, to be miserable as well. And thus, the current Honor Code was born.



The tyranny that is today's "Honor Code Committee" continues this tradition of pencil-necked-geeks who wish they could get kicked out of school for gross honor code violations...but try as they might, they can't. And so they perpetuate the scourge that is the Honor Code - reigning with iron-fisted horror over students and (especially) athletes, doling out grossly exaggerated punishments to "offenders" who broke no laws and caused no physical or emotional harm to anyone but themselves.


Your tone, word choice, generalized disrespect and flippant mockery of things like chastity are likely why almost everybody on this board disagrees with you. Your message would be fine if the package weren't so rank.



How can you expect someone to take you seriously on the topic of the honor code when your writing portrays your mind as bitter, accusatory, disrespectful and insulting?




A few points here:



1. You're comparing apples and oranges. I respect your opinion of the honor code. Just because I painted a picture of who I envision as the perpetuators of the HC that you don't agree with doesn't mean that I cannot and do not "respect" another's opinion. What you might consider "disrespectful" is just your point of view.



2. I don't give a flying rats ass if you or anyone else on this board agrees with my position, or as you put it, takes it seriously. I don't care. I have a strong opinion on the topic, it flared up with the whole Unga situation, and I decided to vent. I don't care if you or anyone else agrees with it or not. Your approval of my opinion is not important.
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Cougy_Monster
Again for clarification, I wrote:


My response in absolutely no way inferred that students are set apart -- did you honestly interpret it that way? If so I'm not surprised at your frustration with others' opinions. My point, since you seemed to miss it, is that the Church holds people (members or not) who represent the Church to a higher standard, whether the representation is official (missionary -- yes set apart) or unofficial but accepted by the public (student at BYU -- not set apart).




Your response below simply restated what I said, followed by some abstract claim about flawed logic.


33311710 wrote:
Let me speak plainly so as not to confuse you. Being a student at BYU is not a CALLING. You are not SET APART. Being a student at BYU is COMPLETELY different from serving a mission. Your comparison is weak and your logic is flawed.


You are trying to create arguments that I never made in order to feel like you've made a point. I never compared or equated being a BYU student with being called on a mission. I simply offered both scenarios as examples of people that are viewed by the public as representatives of the Church and are thus held to a higher standard of conduct. There is no other comparison, even if you try to make one up in order to dish out false accusations.



And if you think the Simpsons are against the honor code then I absolutely understand why you'd want to live according to a different law. I won't even start on Futurama....the best hidden gem of comedic animation ever.
Y
Y 4 Ever
Cougy_Monster wrote:


And if you think the Simpsons are against the honor code then I absolutely understand why you'd want to live according to a different law. I won't even start on Futurama....the best hidden gem of comedic animation ever.


No no no...you misunderstand - I don't think the Simpsons is against the HC. I simply find it ironic that you've chosen for your Avatar a character with such blatant disregard for the HC. That's all.



http://www.topnews.in/files/homer_simpson.jpg" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">



p.s. I'll have to disagree with you on Futurama. It had its moment in the sun....but the Simpsons are the kings.
I
Italics
It doesn't surprise me that Cougy Monster would compare the HC to serving a mission.



I had a girl in one of my classes the other day talk about how those who "live the HC, but disagree with ANY of its rules" are just like the "people who follow the commandments, but don't understand God or have a testimony of Christ."



It's never surprising to hear geeks like her compare ones feelings on the honor code with their feelings on Christ.
C
Cougy_Monster
Italics wrote:
It doesn't surprise me that Cougy Monster would compare the HC to serving a mission.


That's interesting, because it surprises me....since I never made that comparison. I won't waste my time explaining the details (again) to you since you've proven your reading comprehension is lacking.

K
kiwibacon
Please keep the responses civil...At this point it is almost just worth all parties saying we agree to disagree.
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A
ABYUFAN
kiwibacon wrote:
Please keep the responses civil...At this point it is almost just worth all parties saying we agree to disagree.

What happens when people refuse to disagree? ;) :whistle:
C
Cougy_Monster
ABYUFAN wrote:
Please keep the responses civil...At this point it is almost just worth all parties saying we agree to disagree.

What happens when people refuse to disagree? ;) :whistle:


Common enemies make strange allies.



We can agree to disagree or disagree about being agreeable. But we pretty much all love the Cougs and hate the yewts. And because of that all is well.
I
Italics
Cougy_Monster wrote:
kiwibacon wrote:
Please keep the responses civil...At this point it is almost just worth all parties saying we agree to disagree.

What happens when people refuse to disagree? ;) :whistle:


Common enemies make strange allies.



We can agree to disagree or disagree about being agreeable. But we pretty much all love the Cougs and hate the yewts. And because of that all is well.


... so you're SURE that the people who don't agree 100% with the HC aren't sinning, hypocritical Utes in disguise? ;)
M
Mars
Italics wrote:
... so you're SURE that the people who don't agree 100% with the HC aren't sinning, hypocritical Utes in disguise?

Well, not ALL of them...
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