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Questons from a Utah fan

by MTM · 6/18/2010

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ttribe
Welcome to the PAC U-fans. It should be an interesting time of transition.
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craigoscarson
Winning and tradition is ultimately more important than conference affiliation. Utah never saw a huge bounce in recruiting after their BCS winning seasons, what makes anyone think that they're poised to do anything miraculous? They just dont' have a large fanbase or following. They're the red headed stepchild invited to get the Pac 10 to 12 and not threaten the best teams in that conference. The fact that they were last choice by the Pac 10 goes to show that.



BYU wasn't considered because of religious bigotry, anything else is window dressing. There's nothing that Utah offers that BYU couldn't, but a medical school.



BYU will be fine and eventually will be a target of the Big 12 once they realize that a championship game will grease their pockets. (Dan Beebe simply couldn't promise the type of $$ he promised for 2 more teams until the Big 12 gets a new TV deal. As soon as they do BYU will be in the Big12..) BYUs recruiting classes the last 5 years will pay huge dividends during this transition.



Utah has not recruited terribly well since Urban Meyer left and they dont have the depth to compete week after week in the Pac -10. I wouldn't be surprised to see them not break .500 in the Pac 10 for half a decade. There will be kids, and juco players that will go to the U to play in the Pac -10, but I don't think it'll be in time to save them from several sub .500 seasons. To me, Utah is Kansas State.. an also ran that competes from time to time but never again feels like a top dog. (even worse in hoops, where you dont' need the BCS to make the dance, where BYU is consistently improving and Utah is going to fall on harder times)



BCS affiliation helps, but it's not as big a deal as people make it out to be.. ask Kentucky, Vanderbilt, Washington State, Washington, Colorado, etc.



What woud have helped BYU with BCS afiliation is that they'd likely haul in 2-3 of the 4-5 star LDS recruits that they miss on; however, those recruits almost never chose the U or even consider them. I dont' see that changing much. If they chose not to go to BYU, they chose to go to USC, Oregon, etc.



U fans should rightfully celebrate. It's an upgrade for them no doubt, but I don't think they'll regularly compete for anything but .500 and bowl games every other year; which would not be any different than the Ute teams of the 80's , 90's and what would have been the next decade with BYU, BSU and TCU having better talent.



They still have a small stadium, subpar facilities, fair weather fans that don't show up for most games, and still rely on former BYU players to coach their teams... yet they can still recruit players that can't live the honor code at BYU, so maybe there's a chance....
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Ddawg
craigoscarson wrote:
Winning and tradition is ultimately more important than conference affiliation.

Yep.


craigocarson wrote:

They still have a small stadium, subpar facilities, fair weather fans that don't show up for most games, and still rely on former BYU players to coach their teams... yet they can still recruit players that can't live the honor code at BYU, so maybe there's a chance....

Ouch!!!! Ha-ha-ha!! Bingo!!



The Cougs will be fine w/ out the Yewts. Athletes choose BYU because of what they offer that no other school offers; environment, coaching staff, facilities, quality team, quality team-mates, outstanding winning tradition, quality "out of conference" teams & improving recruit athletes.



I believe the Yewts will an average to above average PAC team. Playing a PAC team 1 time - where you really get up & spend the summer preparing is one thing. To play a PAC schedule week after week - w/ injuries - minimal prep time - it will be an eye opener for the jubilant Yewts. Look @ how the Az. schools have fared. Good schools, good programs, average within the PAC. Good luck - I will not be cheering for you or supporting you in any way. I have grown weary of the nasty Yewt fans I have dealt w/ over the past number of years. Go be nasty & disrespectful in the PAC & see what happens. LOL!!!!
M
MTM
33311710 wrote:
and that without religious bigotry amongst your tree-hugging, gay-marrying, baby-killing, Godless brethren, you would NEVER have been chosen.

.


Oh, the irony.
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Cougy_Monster
I can't believe how many people are fooled into believing that bcs conferences are better than the mwc. The yewts will roll through the PAC. In fact the yewts are more likely to win the PAC than the mwc (had they stayed) over the next 5 years.



Please somebody name one team from the PAC that would finish ahead of all of the top mwc teams bsu, tcu, byu and yewtah if they played a full mwc schedule this year. The only possibility would be USC but now they're screwed.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">
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CAFB_04-12
Utah's facilities are in for a massive overhaul. Five years from now, with the millions that will be pouring into the University, we will not be talking about sub-par facilities.



The only difference I see in the academic programs at Utah is the medical hospital and medical research units, which are top notch. I don't know a lot about U of U advanced programs, but after medicine I'm not sure what they have that BYU doesn't.



Utah has made monumental strides in improving their football team in the past decade. It's hard to argue against two BCS wins, one against one of the strongest Alabama teams of the decade. I still remember watching that game and being embarrassed for 'Bama. I have no doubt that Utah will have success against Az St, Az, Oregon St, WSU, Wa, Stanford, and will compete well but lose games against Oregon, UCLA, USC, and Cal. I see them consistently in the top 4 or 5 in the PAC-10, which ironically probably gets you into the Las Vegas bowl.



In-state recruits interested in the big time will flock to Utah. Except for the die-hard, dyed in the wool, true blue kids that always wanted to play in blue and white. But we win those guys almost without exception anyways. I think it's harder to steal Harvey Unga, for example, from Utah if Utah is playing in the PAC-10 on Fox Sports, in cool venues, and in front of millions of TVs every week. For the NFL bound recruits, they will pick Utah and the exposure.



The bad taste I have is from Utah friends who immediately felt superior to the MWC after this. Lots of them likened this to the guy who hooks up with the hot girl that turned you down for the prom. I liken it to the business man who leaves his nice wife and kids for the rich hot secretary.



I look forward to playing Utah this year. Recent matchups have demonstrated that they are pretty even at the end of the day.



I also welcome BSU to the MWC.



I also say good riddance to Utah.
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ttribe
Cougy_Monster wrote:
I can't believe how many people are fooled into believing that bcs conferences are better than the mwc. The yewts will roll through the PAC. In fact the yewts are more likely to win the PAC than the mwc (had they stayed) over the next 5 years.



Please somebody name one team from the PAC that would finish ahead of all of the top mwc teams bsu, tcu, byu and yewtah if they played a full mwc schedule this year. The only possibility would be USC but now they're screwed.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">

And how is it, exactly, that you reached this conclusion?
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Lawboy
I think USC is still going to be good in 2010, and I think UW is on their way back, thanks to Sark. They really are going to be good, just like us, come 2012. Stanford has really improved under Harbaugh, and i he stays, they will continue to be good. He can recruit and is a great coach. Ask me about the time he used my dad's bathroom for a great story--btw.
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Ddawg
Lawboy wrote:
I think USC is still going to be good in 2010, and I think UW is on their way back, thanks to Sark. They really are going to be good, just like us, come 2012. Stanford has really improved under Harbaugh, and i he stays, they will continue to be good. He can recruit and is a great coach. Ask me about the time he used my dad's bathroom for a great story--btw.


That's a story I'd like to hear!!!!! Share!!! Ha-ha!!

:lol:
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Lawboy
OK, but you may not thank me after...

My dad lives down in Scottsdale. His backyard is the course where they have the Phoenix Open. In fact, the first green is his backyard. Been down to that tourney many times. Anyway, back in 1994, the year the Cowboys played the Steelers in the Super Bowl in Phoenix,and the same year Harbaugh almost led the Colts to the SB in a miraculous fashion, the game day was same as the Sunday round of the Open. Many NFL players were out walking the course. Anyway, my dad is on his back porch watching players go by, and Jim Harbaugh walks up to his wall(about 4-5 feet high) and asks if he can use my dad's toilet. My dad recognized him so said sure. Anyway, Jim must have really had to go because the big boy didn't exactly check to see what went down. And needless to say, it didn't, and he clogged the toilet. And bailed without a word. And that my friends, is Big 10-PAC-10 class!
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Cougy_Monster
ttribe wrote:
I can't believe how many people are fooled into believing that bcs conferences are better than the mwc. The yewts will roll through the PAC. In fact the yewts are more likely to win the PAC than the mwc (had they stayed) over the next 5 years.



Please somebody name one team from the PAC that would finish ahead of all of the top mwc teams bsu, tcu, byu and yewtah if they played a full mwc schedule this year. The only possibility would be USC but now they're screwed.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">

And how is it, exactly, that you reached this conclusion?




I thought about it for a little bit.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">
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BigCougsFan
Lawboy wrote:
OK, but you may not thank me after...

My dad lives down in Scottsdale. His backyard is the course where they have the Phoenix Open. In fact, the first green is his backyard. Been down to that tourney many times. Anyway, back in 1994, the year the Cowboys played the Steelers in the Super Bowl in Phoenix,and the same year Harbaugh almost led the Colts to the SB in a miraculous fashion, the game day was same as the Sunday round of the Open. Many NFL players were out walking the course. Anyway, my dad is on his back porch watching players go by, and Jim Harbaugh walks up to his wall(about 4-5 feet high) and asks if he can use my dad's toilet. My dad recognized him so said sure. Anyway, Jim must have really had to go because the big boy didn't exactly check to see what went down. And needless to say, it didn't, and he clogged the toilet. And bailed without a word. And that my friends, is Big 10-PAC-10 class!


That's what they do my friend. They drop bombs...
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ttribe
Cougy_Monster wrote:
Cougy_Monster wrote:
I can't believe how many people are fooled into believing that bcs conferences are better than the mwc. The yewts will roll through the PAC. In fact the yewts are more likely to win the PAC than the mwc (had they stayed) over the next 5 years.



Please somebody name one team from the PAC that would finish ahead of all of the top mwc teams bsu, tcu, byu and yewtah if they played a full mwc schedule this year. The only possibility would be USC but now they're screwed.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">

And how is it, exactly, that you reached this conclusion?




I thought about it for a little bit.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">

In other words, you guessed. Got it.
D
Ddawg
BigCougsFan wrote:
OK, but you may not thank me after...

My dad lives down in Scottsdale. His backyard is the course where they have the Phoenix Open. In fact, the first green is his backyard. Been down to that tourney many times. Anyway, back in 1994, the year the Cowboys played the Steelers in the Super Bowl in Phoenix,and the same year Harbaugh almost led the Colts to the SB in a miraculous fashion, the game day was same as the Sunday round of the Open. Many NFL players were out walking the course. Anyway, my dad is on his back porch watching players go by, and Jim Harbaugh walks up to his wall(about 4-5 feet high) and asks if he can use my dad's toilet. My dad recognized him so said sure. Anyway, Jim must have really had to go because the big boy didn't exactly check to see what went down. And needless to say, it didn't, and he clogged the toilet. And bailed without a word. And that my friends, is Big 10-PAC-10 class!


That's what they do my friend. They drop bombs...


Great story!! LOL!! I have always liked Jim Harbaugh - but - that was a ZERO class act!!! A real "no go!!"

Ha-ha!!!!

;) 8)
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Cougy_Monster
ttribe wrote:
ttribe wrote:
I can't believe how many people are fooled into believing that bcs conferences are better than the mwc. The yewts will roll through the PAC. In fact the yewts are more likely to win the PAC than the mwc (had they stayed) over the next 5 years.



Please somebody name one team from the PAC that would finish ahead of all of the top mwc teams bsu, tcu, byu and yewtah if they played a full mwc schedule this year. The only possibility would be USC but now they're screwed.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">

And how is it, exactly, that you reached this conclusion?




I thought about it for a little bit.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">

In other words, you guessed. Got it.





Yup. I don't know of another way to predict the future besides using past trends to formulate a guess. Since the MWC has pwned the PAC over the last few years I figured this year would be the same.



Yewtah is moving to a better TV deal and a better paycheck but not a more competitive conference. I'll never cheer for the yewts but I won't be surprised when they're in the Rose Bowl within 3 years.
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Ddawg
Cougy_Monster wrote:
Cougy_Monster wrote:
Cougy_Monster wrote:
I can't believe how many people are fooled into believing that bcs conferences are better than the mwc. The yewts will roll through the PAC. In fact the yewts are more likely to win the PAC than the mwc (had they stayed) over the next 5 years.



Please somebody name one team from the PAC that would finish ahead of all of the top mwc teams bsu, tcu, byu and yewtah if they played a full mwc schedule this year. The only possibility would be USC but now they're screwed.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">

And how is it, exactly, that you reached this conclusion?




I thought about it for a little bit.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">

In other words, you guessed. Got it.







Yewtah is moving to a better TV deal and a better paycheck but not a more competitive conference. I'll never cheer for the yewts but I won't be surprised when they're in the Rose Bowl within 3 years.


As Lavelle Edwards said - it's just all about the money - and it's not a good thing. The Yewts can plays competetively in the PAC. What will hurt them initially - is the quality & depth of their bench. As for the starting line-up, they match up pretty well. The deep bench is the key.
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ttribe
Cougy_Monster wrote:
Cougy_Monster wrote:
Cougy_Monster wrote:
I can't believe how many people are fooled into believing that bcs conferences are better than the mwc. The yewts will roll through the PAC. In fact the yewts are more likely to win the PAC than the mwc (had they stayed) over the next 5 years.



Please somebody name one team from the PAC that would finish ahead of all of the top mwc teams bsu, tcu, byu and yewtah if they played a full mwc schedule this year. The only possibility would be USC but now they're screwed.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">

And how is it, exactly, that you reached this conclusion?




I thought about it for a little bit.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">

In other words, you guessed. Got it.





Yup. I don't know of another way to predict the future besides using past trends to formulate a guess. Since the MWC has pwned the PAC over the last few years I figured this year would be the same.



Yewtah is moving to a better TV deal and a better paycheck but not a more competitive conference. I'll never cheer for the yewts but I won't be surprised when they're in the Rose Bowl within 3 years.

I'm not big on definitive predictions on sports outcomes, but here's one I feel very confident in - Utah will not be in the Rose Bowl within 3 years. That prediction is based on watching both the PAC and the MWC for several years now.
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northerncougar
Some things to consider because there really is a HUGE downside if you don't win. The upside is huge if you win, but only if you win.



1. Utah's road record recently against the Pac10 isn't exactly stellar. Okay, it's dismal.

2. When you are part of the conference, the game takes on much more urgency. This won't help Utah, as they already had that urgency with the desire to beat a Pac10 team. Now that each game matters on the road to the Rose Bowl, no one will be taking Utah lightly.

3. Utah has had 1 year in the last 10 where they dominated. 2004. 2008 was a great year for them, but they struggled in multiple games. They had 5 games where they won by 7 or less. 2 of those were at home. There is no possible way that Utah goes undefeated in the Pac10 in 2008. Not a chance.



Utah will likely lose 3-4 games in the Pac10 per year. They will not go to the Rose Bowl in the first 5 years. Contrary to the original post to start this thread there is a huge downside to going to the Pac10. I can see it 5 years from now, "Yes, we haven't been to a BCS game in 5 years, but the money we get makes it all better."
M
Mars
ttribe wrote:
I'm not big on definitive predictions on sports outcomes, but here's one I feel very confident in - Utah will not be in the Rose Bowl within 3 years. That prediction is based on watching both the PAC and the MWC for several years now.

What makes you say that? Both Boise State and TCU would have easily won the PAC-0 last year. Utah was much better in '08 and '04 than they were in '09. And if they end up in a division with USC, UCLA, Arizona, Arizona State, and Colorado, that's 4 garbage schools and one great school that's currently a sinking ship. So where does the false confidence come from?
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ttribe
Mars wrote:
I'm not big on definitive predictions on sports outcomes, but here's one I feel very confident in - Utah will not be in the Rose Bowl within 3 years. That prediction is based on watching both the PAC and the MWC for several years now.

What makes you say that? Both Boise State and TCU would have easily won the PAC-0 last year. Utah was much better in '08 and '04 than they were in '09. And if they end up in a division with USC, UCLA, Arizona, Arizona State, and Colorado, that's 4 garbage schools and one great school that's currently a sinking ship. So where does the false confidence come from?

Given your proclivity for hyperbolic characterizations of other programs ("garbage schools"), it seems pointless to argue the point that I believe (based on observation) that enduring an entire PAC-10 season to be more difficult than the typical MWC season. I guess we'll just have to see, now won't we?
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