CougarCorner
Sign in
Archived Topic

I hate the idea of independence

by jonnylingo · 8/3/2010

Sponsored Advertisementad content
A
allcoug
frdbtr wrote:
You guys seem to forget that the BCS was created to make sure that a "Mid Major" never won another NC due to BYU's NC in 84, so why would the BCS happily add us to the ND rule just because we left the MWC?


So why stay in a mid major conference? If we are playing good competition, winning games, and ranked the same rules would apply as an independent. The BCS dosn't take conference rankings into consideration (at least not the MWC champion).
F
frdbtr
scott715 wrote:
I think they would have to give us the same as the other non-BCS conferences-Be in the top 12. With the upgrade of our SOS our chances should improve.


Yes, and the upgrade in the schedule could also make us 6-6 every year. Which brings up another question; what would 6-6 every year with no chance at the BCS or a conference championship and little chance at a bowl do to recruiting? I love BYU football, it is my favorite sport. I live for Saturday's in the fall. Having said that, I am not dillusional on how the rest of the country looks at BYU. BYU is a second class football program to everyone who follows a BCS conference. Just look at the comments from the husky fans who come here. They seem shocked that we look at BYU as the better program even though the huskies have been down and BYU has had 4 straight 10+ win seasons. It has only been the last couple of years that BYU has had ANY respect from media outlets like ESPN and that is only because we toasted UCLA a couple of years ago and then punked OK last year. It is also because of my love for BYU football that I get emotional when people start suggesting exactly what it would take to destroy the program....Independance.
A
allcoug
frdbtr wrote:

Yes, and the upgrade in the schedule could also make us 6-6 every year. Which brings up another question; what would 6-6 every year with no chance at the BCS or a conference championship and little chance at a bowl do to recruiting?

I don't believe we would be 6-6 every year. And if you read the article I posted it is clear that Bronco does not believe he recruits against other schools - he recruits kids that want to come to BYU. And he has built a program that simply like no other when it comes to what we offer. In no way do I believe our recruiting would suffer as an independent, just like it won't suffer because Utah is in the PAC 10.


frdbtr wrote:

I love BYU football, it is my favorite sport. I live for Saturday's in the fall.


I'm with you. But this year I'm going to sit in LES and watch four pathetic games: SDSU, New Mexico, UNLV and Wyoming. If we were independent I'm positive our schedule would be much better then this. I would much rather risk having a 6 -6 season then have to see this years schedule every two years.


frdbtr wrote:

Having said that, I am not dillusional on how the rest of the country looks at BYU. BYU is a second class football program to everyone who follows a BCS conference. Just look at the comments from the husky fans who come here. They seem shocked that we look at BYU as the better program even though the huskies have been down and BYU has had 4 straight 10+ win seasons. It has only been the last couple of years that BYU has had ANY respect from media outlets like ESPN and that is only because we toasted UCLA a couple of years ago and then punked OK last year.


Right on. This is way we need to mix up who we play. We need to be playing better (or at least different teams around the country) competition so that we continue to get respect. We must risk losing to good programs - nobody, and I mean nobody gave us a chance against OU last year.


frdbtr wrote:

It is also because of my love for BYU football that I get emotional when people start suggesting exactly what it would take to destroy the program....Independance.


We just disagree (Not on the loving BYU football part, but on the independence part!). When Bronco changed his recruiting standard and fundamentally changed the types of players that came to BYU I think the general perception was that the talent level of recruits was going to take a big hit. That hasn't turned out to be the case. I think we are all firmly behind our recruiting requirements, even though they are completely different from every other top football program. I believe the same holds true for independence. It may be a bit radical to jump out of the standard football conference structure, but we aren't like any other college football program. We are different, we won't lose recruits, we do have football and media facilities that are at the top of college football, teams will play us, we will get into a BCS bowl if we win, we don't have to be at the mercy of a Texas or (thank goodness) take care of 'little brother' any more. We are BYU, and we shouldn't be afraid to do what is good for us and the program even when there are doubters.



Bring on the season. I'll be there.
S
scott715
If we go to the Big 12-2 we could have 6-6 seasons. Does that mean we turn them down? Going independent has risks. This is not an easy decision. I am saying that there are advantages to doint it. I think if we play 12 games against teams in the 20-60 rank range that we will still have 10 win seasons. That our recruiting could improve by getting some of the elite LDS kids to come because of our schedule. And it will help to continue to move our program to new highs.



This option is on the table. It is a possibility where in the past it was not.
F
frdbtr
scott715 wrote:
If we go to the Big 12-2 we could have 6-6 seasons. Does that mean we turn them down? Going independent has risks. This is not an easy decision. I am saying that there are advantages to doint it. I think if we play 12 games against teams in the 20-60 rank range that we will still have 10 win seasons. That our recruiting could improve by getting some of the elite LDS kids to come because of our schedule. And it will help to continue to move our program to new highs.



This option is on the table. It is a possibility where in the past it was not.


If we go to the big 12 and have a few 6-6 seasons (The big 12 north would be BYU's for the taking every year) we could at least tell recruits that if they come to BYU they have a shot at the NC and a big 12 championship. Independance has neither of those sells.
Sponsored Advertisementad content
L
Lawboy
allcoug wrote:



I'm with you. But this year I'm going to sit in LES and watch four pathetic games: SDSU, New Mexico, UNLV and Wyoming.


I actually think that both SDSU and Wyoming will be much improved. Both have great coaches right now, who have a clear vision and are getting it done. I think both programs improve in year 2. Especially SDSU because t hey have a really good QB who burned us last year. But Wyoming will improve as well. Remember they started a true fresh at QB last year, and that kid has some skill and should improve. I do not think either team beats us at LES, but they will be better games than the last several they played at LES. Not sexy games for sure, but not total dogs. UNM and UNLV are total dogs.



I rate the home games like this:

UW

Nevada

Wyoming

SDSU

UNLV

UNM



If we went indy, no way we couldn't improve on that schedule.
M
Mars
frdbtr wrote:
I think it would be harder to play for a NC as an independant then it currently is. Notre Dame has a special rule putting them in the BCS if they achieve a certain rank in the top 25 but they are the only ones. No one talks about Navy in the NC race....ever, what makes you think they would talk about BYU in that light.

Navy's best season since 2002 was in 2004, where they went 9-2 in the regular season, but lost to Notre Dame by 18 and lost to Tulane by 32 (and 4 of their wins came by 4 points or less, including one over I-AA Northeastern).

http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/schedule/_/id/2426/year/2004/navy-midshipmen



Every other year Navy has finished the season with 3, 4, or 5 losses. NO ONE will get NC hype with that type of record. BYU certainly doesn't when we go 11-2.
F
frdbtr
Mars wrote:
I think it would be harder to play for a NC as an independant then it currently is. Notre Dame has a special rule putting them in the BCS if they achieve a certain rank in the top 25 but they are the only ones. No one talks about Navy in the NC race....ever, what makes you think they would talk about BYU in that light.

Navy's best season since 2002 was in 2004, where they went 9-2 in the regular season, but lost to Notre Dame by 18 and lost to Tulane by 32 (and 4 of their wins came by 4 points or less, including one over I-AA Northeastern).

http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/schedule/_/id/2426/year/2004/navy-midshipmen



Every other year Navy has finished the season with 3, 4, or 5 losses. NO ONE will get NC hype with that type of record. BYU certainly doesn't when we go 11-2.


Yep, and we wouldn't if we went 11-2 as an independant either. Notre Dame on the other hand would be in a BCS game. BYU would be begging a bowl game to take us as an independant since we would no longer have a conference bowl tie in. Navy gets bowl tie ins due to them being a service academy. You guys that want to schedule games with Big east and ACC lower tier teams as an independant are forgetting the travel costs that would be associated with traveling there when we have to play our game there. Not only that but BYU flying all over the country for an independant schedule would wear on the players. Frankly, I think that could cause losses due to players getting tired. Right now with BYU's regional schedule due to the conference, most games are only an hour flight away. Yes, some of our lower tier teams are really bad but being in a conference has a lot of benefits. The best idea is to stay in the MWC until the Big 12 decides to go back to 12 teams. Then all of the benefits you guys are saying make it possible for us to be an independant work in our favor for a big 12 invite.
B
Bluma
jonnylingo wrote:

Is that same deal on the table? I am not as confident as you and your anonymous source.



anyway, so what, more money but we become loners not attached to a conference. you have not even mentioned bow tie ins. where are we going to go bowling if we have a good season?


Why wouldn't the ESPN deal be on the table? BYU is a lot better now than they were when the mtn deal was made. A stretch of four 10 win seasons is pretty attractive if you are ESPN.



MWC championship = overrated. We have so many MWC and WAC trophies that it will cost more money for new cases to store future ones in. Of course BYU could afford it if they had an HD network and increased their yearly football income by a factor of 2-3, but they wouldn't have any trophies to win. Here's an idea: make our own trophy. If we win over 80% of our games, "award" ourselves they BYU Championship trophy. (It will be like the Million Dollar Man in WWF making a MIllion Dollar title just because he could :lol: )
J
jonnylingo
Bluma wrote:
CannonCougar85 wrote:

Is that same deal on the table? I am not as confident as you and your anonymous source.



anyway, so what, more money but we become loners not attached to a conference. you have not even mentioned bow tie ins. where are we going to go bowling if we have a good season?


Here's an idea: make our own trophy. If we win over 80% of our games, "award" ourselves they BYU Championship trophy.


Exactly, its lame. Like I said, without sweet bowl tie ins, you lose a lot of the luster and intensity to each game that is there when you play in a conference. The games just don't matter as much.
Sponsored Advertisementad content
B
Bluma
So you want BYU to sacrifice millions of dollars in potential TV, ticket sales and other income, just so we can have another copy of a MWC plaque with names of teams that generally average anywhere from 40-100th in the country annually in the final rankings?



If it's just the trophy the team needs, make up some trophy for "BYU excellence" or a smaller group of teams that we play regularly, like the service academies have (Commander-in-Chief trophy).
A
allcoug
Bluma wrote:
So you want BYU to sacrifice millions of dollars in potential TV, ticket sales and other income, just so we can have another copy of a MWC plaque with names of teams that generally average anywhere from 40-100th in the country annually in the final rankings?



If it's just the trophy the team needs, make up some trophy for "BYU excellence" or a smaller group of teams that we play regularly, like the service academies have (Commander-in-Chief trophy).


We already have 'The Boot' award to the winner of the Utah State/BYU game. It has about as much meaning as a MWC trophy.
M
Mars
allcoug wrote:
We already have 'The Boot' award to the winner of the Utah State/BYU game. It has about as much meaning as a MWC trophy.

That's the wagon wheel. The boot is CSU-Wyoming.
S
SpiffCoug
Isn't there a Beehive Boot that goes to the best in-state record between BYU, Utah and Utah State?
M
Mars
kitic77 wrote:
Isn't there a Beehive Boot that goes to the best in-state record between BYU, Utah and Utah State?

You win this round.
Sponsored Advertisementad content
J
jonnylingo
What the hell is a boot or wagon wheel? I think this proves my point. These things are stupid
R
redneckjedi
jonnylingo wrote:
What the hell is a boot or wagon wheel? I think this proves my point. These things are stupid


No, these things are what college football is about. Teams all over the country play for screwy trophies like wagon wheels and boots - regardless of whether or not they have a shot at the crystal football. It's this kind of passion for otherwise meaningless contests that makes college football the greatest sport in the world.
Page 3 of 3
This is an archived topic from the original CougarCorner forum. New replies are not accepted.