Day 1 QB Battle

kitic77 wrote:
Would anyone trade either of BYU's QBs for any other starting QB in the MWC? I don't think I would. I'd take Heaps and Nelson over Wynn, Carter-Samuels, Dalton, Jefferson and whomever leads SDSU, CSU, UNLV, and UNM to the dismal seasons they're going to have.

You're insane if you'd take Nelson over Dalton.

It's a little early to be calling it for Heaps isn't it?!!! One practice does not mean anything.



I suspect the coaches will make their decision in 2 weeks. Give it one week to confirm their choice, then keep it under wraps during the week leading up to game time against UW. That decision could include platooning for the first 2 games.



That being said, I see Heaps leading by a negiligible amount.

Mars wrote:


Nelson ran the full negative gamut on Day One. Threw an interception to Brian Logan (no penalty on the play). Got sacked. Had a pass batted down. Fumbled the ball. Didn't throw a touchdown pass.

I can't find any reference to an interception to Logan that counted. I found in TBS' write up that Logan intercepted a ball, but the play had been blown dead due to a sack.

Mars wrote:




Also, Lark is clearly viewed as 3rd string, and Munns as 4th string right now. They will get an equal chance if they earn it, but that are not currently all tied at the top like was previously suggested.

How are they supposed to earn if they haven't been able to take any snaps? I am hoping that maybe Lark and Munns will get the bulk of the reps on the next day of practice. I think it would be only be fair to give them most of a day to see what they can do.

Cougarbib2 wrote:
I read that one of the receivers had to do nearly a full turn in mid-air to make a circus catch for a 40+ yard TD from Heaps. That does not sound like accuracy to me.



Bib

You're right, it is completely fair to judge a qb's accuracy on one play, especially one that went for a touchdown. If you don't think Heaps is accurate, then you haven't ever seen him play.

QuarterbackU wrote:

I read that one of the receivers had to do nearly a full turn around in the air ot make a circus catch for a 40+ yard TD from Heaps. That doesn ot sound like accuracy to me. Both QBs moved tghe ball an dled the team to scores. I would imagine tha the coaches also called plays ot look at cetain situations and try various things. THey did not have them both run the sam eplays against eh same defensive calls and defensive and offensive supporting cast. YOu don't have enough data to know who was going agains teh 1s and who was gong against the 2s and who had 1s or 2s helping them ove the chains.



The coaches will sort this all out. But it sounds like we have two pretty decent QBs so far or a pretty porous defense.



I didn't see much tight end news in what I read iirc. DId anyone hear how they looked.



Bib

It doesn't matter if the reciever made an adjustment while the ball was in the air, what matters is that the reciever had a chance to make the catch because the ball went there. It looks like Nelson is checking down alot to get his completions. 5 of 8 is not bad at all but 49 yards is not a lot of passing yards. Let's see if Nelson can take some shots and be successful next week. You miss 100% of the shots you don't take right and that's what Nelson is doing. He's not even attempting the long passes.

One thing to keep in mind is that Heaps is known for throwing the ball to a location that he feels only the WR can get to, which will on occasion require adjustment by the WR.

So, all of you who have declared that the QB battle is not even close and that heaps is the best by far, what happens if Riley trots out as our starter against WA? Do all of you turn on Bronco and start calling for his head? Do you guys realize that if the competition really "wasn't close" that Heaps would be getting ALL of the reps in fall camp so that he is prepared for WA. Do you remember Max in his first fall camp, he got 90% of the reps so that he was prepared, to the point that posters were questioning bronco because "what if Max gets hurt, the back up wouldn't be prepared". So really, is it really a runaway at this point? I don't think it is, I think that under the criteria that the coaches have outlined for performance, it is still close.



AUTHORS NOTE: I don't know what the criteria is that Bronco and Co. have outlined and frankly, I don't think anyone on this board does either. I have a feeling that Jake is going to be the guy but I still believe that things are close or he would be getting all the snaps by now.

BlueIsBetter wrote:
You're right, it is completely fair to judge a qb's accuracy on one play, especially one that went for a touchdown. If you don't think Heaps is accurate, then you haven't ever seen him play.

And yet after one day, Riley (5-8, .625) is more accurate than Heaps (8-13, .615)

kitic77 wrote:

You're right, it is completely fair to judge a qb's accuracy on one play, especially one that went for a touchdown. If you don't think Heaps is accurate, then you haven't ever seen him play.

And yet after one day, Riley (5-8, .625) is more accurate than Heaps (8-13, .615)

Given the sample size, the difference between the two is not statistically significant enough to call it either way yet.

Kitic, really? I could throw passes to the RB in the flat, or the WR in the flat all day too and get that %, and I'm a man, I'm 40! Remember the BC game in Bronco's first year? I swear Beck had an awesome completion percentage that day, and we still got creamed because the dude never took shots down the field. I think we scored 3 pts that day, too.



I do not care who starts, just love the competition because it will make them all better and more game ready. Will help the rest of the team too, because jobs are open for the taking. We are young, but we should be really good by 2011, and let's hope the learning curve is faster than that.

redneckjedi wrote:

BlueIsBetter wrote:
You're right, it is completely fair to judge a qb's accuracy on one play, especially one that went for a touchdown. If you don't think Heaps is accurate, then you haven't ever seen him play.

And yet after one day, Riley (5-8, .625) is more accurate than Heaps (8-13, .615)

Given the sample size, the difference between the two is not statistically significant enough to call it either way yet.

I know. I'm just saying that Heaps advantage over Nelson when it comes to accuracy is overblown.



Riley is not as inaccurate nor lacks as much arm strength as those in the Jake camp seem to suggest, imply and think.

Lawboy wrote:
Kitic, really? I could throw passes to the RB in the flat, or the WR in the flat all day too and get that %, and I'm a man, I'm 40! Remember the BC game in Bronco's first year? I swear Beck had an awesome completion percentage that day, and we still got creamed because the dude never took shots down the field. I think we scored 3 pts that day, too.



I do not care who starts, just love the competition because it will make them all better and more game ready. Will help the rest of the team too, because jobs are open for the taking. We are young, but we should be really good by 2011, and let's hope the learning curve is faster than that.

HA! Love the the Gundy reference!



I'm just saying either completion percentage is a tool to evaluate a QBs accuracy or it's not. Because you can't say Heaps is more accurate and then when the stats show otherwise, the Jake camp, can't come back and discount those stats.

Exactly. Right now you can't call it for either one as a BYU QB, there's just not enough data out there. Which, incidentally, is exactly what the coaches have been saying.

Dude, we could have a QB throw a pass to the RB from 5 feet away and get 100% accuracy, does not make him a more accurate passer. And if you are going to argue that Nelson is as accurate at throwing the ball down the field as Heaps, Lark or even Munns, your credibility is going to take a hit. Nelson's strength is NOT passing down the field. It is short passing, and creating yards with his legs.



The issue is efficiency and who gets you in the end zone. In Spring camp, and after day 1 of Fall camp, Heaps wins those battles on both counts. Heaps in more efficient, and Heaps gets the team in the end zone more. And if that trend continues in fall camp, the decision will be easy. Nelson needs to get his efficiency and TDs up. Both guys need to. But I do like seeing the D hold their own, too.

Lawboy wrote:
Dude, we could have a QB throw a pass to the RB from 5 feet away and get 100% accuracy, does not make him a more accurate passer. And if you are going to argue that Nelson is as accurate at throwing the ball down the field as Heap, Lark or even Munns, your credibility is going to take a hit. Nelson's strength is NOT passing down the field. It is short passing, and creating yards with his legs.



The issue is efficiency and who gets you in the end zone. In Spring camp, and after day 1 of Fall camp, Heaps wins those battles on both counts. Heaps in more efficient, and Heaps gets the team in the end zone more. And if that trend continues in fall camp, the decision will be easy. Nelson needs to get his efficiency and TDs up. Both guys need to. But I do like seeing the D hold their own, too.

Most definitely. I have never claimed nor argued that Nelson has a strong arm. But he's not some weakling either. And if he is the QB, then I fully expect the coaches to not have him throw down field as much as Heaps might either.



All I was arguing is on the video of that ONE pass, we don't have context. It could have Nelson's first throw of the day, for all we know. I hope our QBs aren't throwing as hard as they can on every single throw, let alone the first one of the day.



And in the OP this thread, I gave the edge to Heaps.

fifthqb wrote:

Also, Lark is clearly viewed as 3rd string, and Munns as 4th string right now. They will get an equal chance if they earn it, but that are not currently all tied at the top like was previously suggested.

How are they supposed to earn if they haven't been able to take any snaps? I am hoping that maybe Lark and Munns will get the bulk of the reps on the next day of practice. I think it would be only be fair to give them most of a day to see what they can do.

Completely disagree. The snaps should go to the QB's that perform best in position and skelly drills. What makes you think that Heaps and Nelson didn't outperform them in practice prior to team segments? I think Nelson ends up as the #2 QB and will come in to run some plays every game to take advantage of his athletic ability. Were Heaps to get injured, Larks might be the guy, though. I am interested to see where Larks and Munns are.

byutx wrote:

Mars wrote:




Also, Lark is clearly viewed as 3rd string, and Munns as 4th string right now. They will get an equal chance if they earn it, but that are not currently all tied at the top like was previously suggested.

How are they supposed to earn if they haven't been able to take any snaps? I am hoping that maybe Lark and Munns will get the bulk of the reps on the next day of practice. I think it would be only be fair to give them most of a day to see what they can do.

Completely disagree. The snaps should go to the QB's that perform best in position and skelly drills. What makes you think that Heaps and Nelson didn't outperform them in practice prior to team segments? I think Nelson ends up as the #2 QB and will come in to run some plays every game to take advantage of his athletic ability. Were Heaps to get injured, Larks might be the guy, though. I am interested to see where Larks and Munns are.

i think what is more interesting is where lark and munss are toward the end of the season and even more so into next year. As they get their legs back do they seperate themselves from nelson? Nelson is too athletic and gritty to not be used. If he is not the starter he definitely needs to be put in the game for certain packages.

so....4 pages later. Do we have Day 2 stats yet? lol. Will that generate EIGHT pages of discussion?

CougarClaw wrote:
so....4 pages later. Do we have Day 2 stats yet? lol. Will that generate EIGHT pages of discussion?

Well, since yesterday was Sunday, day 2 is today. So no new stats yet. Unless we are including church attendance stats. I assume if we were, the QB's all went 3 for 3....

Lawboy wrote:

so....4 pages later. Do we have Day 2 stats yet? lol. Will that generate EIGHT pages of discussion?

Well, since yesterday was Sunday, day 2 is today. So no new stats yet. Unless we are including church attendance stats. I assume if we were, the QB's all went 3 for 3....

Yeah, but who did HT for the month of JULY? That is what the coaches are actually looking for... :) ;) :lol: