by SpiffCoug · 8/14/2010
snoscythe wrote:snoscythe wrote:If you include (and I know you officialy can't so spare me the "a drop is an incompletion) 5 on the numbers, hit the hands, no excuse to not catch them drops, he goes 15-20, and those are good stats. Riley had a huge gain on a blown coverage. McKay actually stopped and waited about 3 seconds before jogging into the endzon. Take that away and he doesn't look good at all.
Yet again, someone trying to explain away Nelson's performance to make it look worse but try and pump up Heaps' numbers.
don't be foolish sno. Facts are facts. Receivers have been dropping heaps' passes, and my guess is that it's bc he puts more zip on the ball, unlike nelson's wobbly lobs.
mckay got his td catch due to blown coverage... He was wide, and yet still the pass was poorly thrown. You really think we should ignore the facts and just go purely off of numbers... Practice numbers at that?
My point has nothing to do with adding context to numbers--you need that. However, it has to be a two-way street. The Heapsists are quick to identify every dropped pass by Heaps as a receiver snafu and every should be interception by Nelson as a bad throw, but when a receiver drops a Nelson ball, it's because it was poorly thrown, and when the defense should've intercepted a Heaps ball, it's because the defense made a great play or the receiver cut off a route.
Context is great, but if you're going to give it, paint the whole picture, not just what you like.
kiwibacon wrote:
To those involved in this discussion. Please refrain from personal attacks. Please discuss the topic and refrain from the name calling.
BlueIsBetter wrote:Italics wrote:BlueIsBetter wrote:
If you include (and I know you officialy can't so spare me the "a drop is an incompletion) 5 on the numbers, hit the hands, no excuse to not catch them drops, he goes 15-20, and those are good stats. Riley had a huge gain on a blown coverage. McKay actually stopped and waited about 3 seconds before jogging into the endzon. Take that away and he doesn't look good at all.
Yet again, someone trying to explain away Nelson's performance to make it look worse but try and pump up Heaps' numbers.
don't be foolish sno. Facts are facts. Receivers have been dropping heaps' passes, and my guess is that it's bc he puts more zip on the ball, unlike nelson's wobbly lobs.
mckay got his td catch due to blown coverage... He was wide, and yet still the pass was poorly thrown. You really think we should ignore the facts and just go purely off of numbers... Practice numbers at that?
My point has nothing to do with adding context to numbers--you need that. However, it has to be a two-way street. The Heapsists are quick to identify every dropped pass by Heaps as a receiver snafu and every should be interception by Nelson as a bad throw, but when a receiver drops a Nelson ball, it's because it was poorly thrown, and when the defense should've intercepted a Heaps ball, it's because the defense made a great play or the receiver cut off a route.
Context is great, but if you're going to give it, paint the whole picture, not just what you like.
You want context, Sno... let's compare the offenses against each other in Greg Wrubell's words... You can find his whole post, here... http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=498&sid=11996894" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; it is a good read.
Ones vs. Ones
Series 1: Riley Nelson - Three-and-out; 3rd down incompletion, punt.
Series 3: Heaps - 7 plays; drive ending in 45-yd TD pass to Jacobson (deep ball, right side), PAT by Riley Stephenson was good. Heaps: 5/6, 85 yds passing on the 96-yard drive.
Series 6: Nelson - Three-and-out; 3rd down run by Kariya short of the marker, punt.
Series 8: Heaps - Three-and-out; 3rd down completion to O'Neill Chambers short of the marker, punt. (NOTE: I think Chambers fumbled on this play, or it was a bad spot, or stepped out of bounds, because he got past the marker. Anyone know what happened? This was the one they started at the 2, right?)
Twos vs. Twos
Series 2: Jake Heaps - 8 plays; 3rd down incompletion, punt. Drive featured 30-yard completion to TE Austin Holt.
Series 5: Nelson - Three-and-out; 3rd down completion short of marker on 3rd-and-long, punt
SSeries 9: Nelson - Three-and-out; 3rd down sack by Kyle Van Noy, punt.
Twos vs. Threes
Series 7: Heaps - Six plays; incompletion on 3rd-and-17, punt.
How do things look so far Sno? So up to series 10, you have 4 - count them - 4 Nelson 3 and outs. All the while Jake went 24 plays, to Riley's 12 including a 45 yd TD throw to Jacobsen. But yeah, Riley moves the ball, and gets first downs...
Then comes your saving grace, though I'm pretty sure the coaches won't count it in their mental tally (you think they actually care about these numbers you guys throw around) because the whole play developed out of BLOWN COVERAGE, and I say that meaning, there wasn't a guy literally within 15 yards of Jacobsen, and two guys guarding the non-existent draw/curl pattern.
Series 11: Nelson (ones v. twos) - Four plays; drive ending with 35-yd TD pass to Jacobson (wide open on a missed assignment; intermediate right), PAT by Stephenson was good. Nelson: 1/2, 35 yds passing on the 51-yard drive.
Did you actually see the scrimmage, Papa Nelson? And who was the better qb, in your opinion if you did see it?
snoscythe wrote:If you include (and I know you officialy can't so spare me the "a drop is an incompletion) 5 on the numbers, hit the hands, no excuse to not catch them drops, he goes 15-20, and those are good stats. Riley had a huge gain on a blown coverage. McKay actually stopped and waited about 3 seconds before jogging into the endzon. Take that away and he doesn't look good at all.
Yet again, someone trying to explain away Nelson's performance to make it look worse but try and pump up Heaps' numbers.
kitic77 wrote:
- I heard today that Jake has a "plan." It's a plan he and his family have had for several years. Three years and then the NFL. It's why they invested the time, money and effort to the private coaches, all the summer camps, all the all-star camps. It's why he graduated early to participate in spring ball. To play his freshman fall. It's why there won't be a mission. Everything he does is part of that plan.
snocythe wrote:
In fact, you have somewhat proven the point I was making by attempting to twist a completion to a wide open receiver on a blown play into a negative.
If Heaps made the exact same throw, you would be applauding his field vision and wisdom in under-throwing the ball to the wide open guy (p.s. it's what you want to do when the guy is that wide open---err on the short side so he can come back to it because if you overthrow it, there's nothing he can do). But, since it was Nelson, here you sit trying to take the play away from him as something he lucked into and try to leverage it into a negative.
Nicely done sir. Thank you for proving my point.
BlueIsBetter wrote:In fact, you have somewhat proven the point I was making by attempting to twist a completion to a wide open receiver on a blown play into a negative.
If Heaps made the exact same throw, you would be applauding his field vision and wisdom in under-throwing the ball to the wide open guy (p.s. it's what you want to do when the guy is that wide open---err on the short side so he can come back to it because if you overthrow it, there's nothing he can do). But, since it was Nelson, here you sit trying to take the play away from him as something he lucked into and try to leverage it into a negative.
Nicely done sir. Thank you for proving my point.
What are you even talking about? If Heaps didn't hit the guy in stride, I would say that. IF that ever happens, I'll let you know. The ball was literally sky high, and he was waiting for it forever. So you are sitting here, and lambasting me, for something you didn't see? Is that what I am understanding? Ask anybody, the hang time was there on the ball. His ball was higher than Heaps' and Heaps threw it 10 yards further. But whatever, you are entitled to your non-opinion. If Heaps did underthrow him, I would say, it was underthrown, just like the 1 billion times that Max did it while he was here. He did luck into it, two defenders were covering: Nobody! Anybody that writes on this subject is going to say the same thing. Just because somebody can underhand a pass to a wide open target - Nevermind, it's like typing to a brick wall... Find a video of it. See for yourself before you start defending. Again, the most important things here are #1 This never happens again, no matter WHO is the quarterback, especially if he isn't a BYU quarterback, and #2 The TD was made. I give him that much credit. If you check my posts from yesterday, I actually went pretty soft on Nelson, and had praise for him. Credit is given were credit is due.
p.s. I really meant no disrespect with the papa nelson thing, I will drop it gladly. :)
Cougarfan87 wrote:
Kitic, Thanks for keeping the Heaps camp in check with some reality.
Cougarbib2 wrote:
Yeah MARS - u r right. It is amazing that the coaches are so stupid and blind that they are putting us all through this drawn-out farce - day after day - when it is so clear already that even an IDIOT can see it. The coaches are wrecking the team by not focusing when even an IDIOT can see that they could have started focusing from day 1.
CAFB_04-12 wrote:
I'm still excited about each QB. Each brings an exciting dimension to the game.
Cougarbib2 wrote:
Yeah MARS - u r right. It is amazing that the coaches are so stupid and blind that they are putting us all through this drawn-out farce - day after day - when it is so clear already that even an IDIOT can see it. The coaches are wrecking the team by not focusing when even an IDIOT can see that they could have started focusing from day 1.
Good Call. eMail your post to Bronco and let him know we are gong to get rid of him and get a decent coach if he doesn't stop this nonsense right now.
TIC - in case it was not so obvious that even an idiot could tell.
Bib
PS I will be delghted to have Heaps start and play every singel down for 4 years if that is what Bronco decides is best for the team. As Al Davis often said - Just Win (10 or 11 or more) Baby.
