QB Battle Day 7

So let me get this completely straight - a bit old and slow u kno and with bad eyes and all.



Ok

It is so obvious that an IDIOT or for that matter the media, all 4,000 in the stands, and the wannabe bloggers all know who will start - but Bronco wants to keep that SECRET so uw can't plan 4 it and is willing to forgo the opportunity to focus on getting said obvious starter ready to enable the surprise.



Ingenious



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Cougarbib2 wrote:
So let me get this completely straight - a bit old and slow u kno and with bad eyes and all.



Ok

It is so obvious that an IDIOT or for that matter the media, all 4,000 in the stands, and the wannabe boogers all know who will start - but Bronco wants to keep that SECRET so uw can't plan 4 it and is willing to forgo the opportunity to focus on getting said obvious starter ready to enable the surprise.



Ingenious



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Heaps and Nelson are getting plenty of reps in practice right now.

That's what practices are for... to give everyone a chance to practice.



Even if Heaps were announced as the starter today, it's not like Nelson, Munns, and Lark would have to just sit on the sidelines and twiddle their thumbs. I'm not sure why you think it would be better for Heaps to be announced as the starter now... if anything, not knowing who will start is going to be motivation for both Heaps and Nelson to work harder.

airattack wrote:
Kitic there is no "plan" concerning Jake... lol... I think someone is just pulling your leg or this is just more sour grapes. There seems to be enough of that to make some serious grape juice or maybe something stronger. ;)

I'd be very surprised if Jake hasn't had a plan. That everything he has done has been haphazard in nature. It may not be a three-year plan, but Jake clearly has NFL aspirations and has been working towards that since he was very young.



I hope you don't think I'm being a sour grape.

Mars wrote:

Kitic, Thanks for keeping the Heaps camp in check with some reality.

Come on, this quote is ridiculous. :roll:



REALITY is, the vast majority of BYU fans have been in the "Heaps camp" for a long time now, and those who weren't clearly hadn't been paying BYU's QB race any attention. Anyone who has ever seen the two QBs in person could quickly and easily identify Jake as the more talented player. Anyone who has seen the stats, either spring or fall, has noticed the same thing. Those who had eyes to see saw a long time ago. The rest have either been proudly ignorant or willfully stubborn, no different in my mind than those who called to start Loyd over Jimmer last season, based on... nothing. Harsh but true.



Go Cougars.

My intention was never to simply provide some reality. I don't think I was being proudly ignorant nor willfully stubborn. I had my opinion and I stood by bit.



Heaven forbid I actually waited until I had more data on a true freshman who had never played a down in D1 and whom I'd only seen throw one time in person. Whatever was I thinking?!



I mean, I've been so anti-Jake it's not even funny. I'm embarrassed at suggesting that he was going to be a great BYU quarterback who was going to have a fantastic future for the Cougars. I can't believe I was so naive to think that maybe a redshirt could make him better in 2014 than he'd be in 2010.



Think of all the times, I cautioned for patience and then went out of my way to knock him down at every chance I got, to go on and on about how his high school stats meant nothing, how his play for BYU has always been atrocious, how I don't think there's any way he should even be allowed on the football field, that there's no way he could even be successful - even with all the talent he would have surrounding him. How I propped up every thing his cohort at the position did was the most spectacular thing ever. How I tried to minimize the mistakes his fellow teammate and QB made wasn't really his fault and could easily be explained away.



I loved how I was constantly stating this race was over and the obvious and clear decision wasn't to play Jake. I remember my countless calls to bench him now, that he had no business being on the field.



I think I was very consistent in my positions in this battle. And I think I was actually willing to give Riley a chance.



And Mars to lump me and my position in with those who wanted Loyd to start over Jimmer is frankly insulting. I thought you'd have more respect for me than that.



I humbly beg all of your forgiveness for being so gawd-awfully wrong. It's clear BYU was on it's way to an 3-9 season until Jake came along.

Bib, did it ever occur to you that announcing a starter now, would not only tip our hand to UW, but would cause 1 if not 2 very good quarterbacks to transfer? Nobody has discussed this, but Lark looked really good out there with the 3's. He might have had the most productive day, as far as what he did with what he was given. He will be getting more reps, now. It is also about letting people fall into the system where they may. I think that Riley has a place in our offense, and it will be a productive, important part. I think that Lark is going to know both Jake's and Riley's role, in case of injury. And if we are blowing people out of the water, Lark is going to be the first one off the bench, not Riley. Riley has been given chance after chance to distance himself, and just hasn't been able to do it. So all you Riley defenders, and Riley mourners that say "he never had a chance" can save it. This has been his to lose ever since Gaskins gave him the 2nd position last year. And I don't mean that Lark will be 2nd and Riley 3rd, I mean that Riley is taking over the shortgame, wildcat, option type offense, and Jake is taking over everything else. They will interchange those. Lark will come in as the 2nd team, because both Jake and Riley are considered first team in their respective positions. Make sense?

Mars wrote:


From the tweets on the right:



"what seems apparent so far is that Heaps throws the ball against the 1s much better than Nelson at this point..."



"Heaps 25-38 for 318 yards against the 1s....Nelson 4-10 for 43 yards...stark"



Funny, I'm been saying the same exact thing...



Sometimes it's tough being the resident board expert. :D

Wow, these numbers are amazing. It makes me wonder if this QB battle is just Bronco's way of disguising who has already won the QB battle without closing practice to the media. Keep everyone throwing but play the future starter against the ones the most.

That does make sense. I think Munns might be the odd-man out.



Bronco spoke recently about having an identity. I can see the logic in letting Riley keep his role. But for the sake of continuity you make Lark the backup to keep the Jake portion of the offense going. That way, if Jake got hurt, you can keep Riley's role the same - maybe expand it some, but wouldn't have to rely solely on him.



Of course, I'm not sure we have that much time to prepare essentially three QBs. But I can see what you're saying.



I do find it somewhat humorous that Lark looked good against the threes, yet when Riley looked good against the twos you weren't quite as generous. But that's neither here nor there now.



I think the coaches would now be wise to start defining QB roles. Jake as the primary signal caller, and Riley with a significant change of pace for more than one play here and there.



I think if Jake were to go down, Riley would be the backup as he's probably more ready to take over than Lark.

frdbtr wrote:

From the tweets on the right:



"what seems apparent so far is that Heaps throws the ball against the 1s much better than Nelson at this point..."



"Heaps 25-38 for 318 yards against the 1s....Nelson 4-10 for 43 yards...stark"



Funny, I'm been saying the same exact thing...



Sometimes it's tough being the resident board expert. :D

Wow, these numbers are amazing. It makes me wonder if this QB battle is just Bronco's way of disguising who has already won the QB battle without closing practice to the media. Keep everyone throwing but play the future starter against the ones the most.

No, I think it's Bronco's way of making sure Jake EARNS the starting job and keeps fighting for it. That the team knows who the offense's leader will be. And it keeps Riley working hard too. As I posted in another thread. BYU hasn't had a starter miss a game in 48 games. That's a long time. Bronco may be making sure he has two QBs ready if the unfortunate happens.

To be fair, I haven't ever seen Riley be impressive with my own two eyes. Again I don't care about the numbers. I'm not saying he's not a good quarterback, he certainly does what he does well, just the times I have seen him I haven't come away thinking, "Now that is a quarterback." More like, he can run but can he throw? And then it was like, yeah, kinda. I mentioned on Friday that his short passes look great. They are not on the money all the time, but he has good zip on anything within 20 yards. You can take that as being impressed. I haven't ever seen Lark in person, and he was impressive in the scrimmage.



And I agree, that if Jake gets hurt/can't play/can't take the pressure for anytime up tp game 4 or 5, Nelson comes in. Until lark comes up to speed about midway through the season. Then next year, we get to do this all again!!! But Lark will be a LOT better, and will contest for number 1! Everyone get new keyboards... Lol.



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snoscythe wrote:

There were lots of drops today. I've never played catch with both a right hander and left hander. Since they put different spins on the ball, can that affect your ability to catch?

Absolutely. We had a lefty and a righty in camp one season, and it drove receivers nuts. When you look for the ball, you are looking for a familiar shape coming from a familiar angle. When a lefty is in the mix, the ball noses at the opposite angle, and it takes a split second longer to locate.



The reverse spin is also an issue. Your hands are conditioned from years of catching righties to catch a ball "just-so" to compensate for the spin to keep it from torquing out of your hands. That familiar hand positioning actually helps the ball thrown by a lefty escape your grips.



That said, it only took us about a week to get used to catching both. At this point in camp, lefty/righty should not be a factor for the receivers.

IIRC, there was an article where Jerry Rice commented on this vis-a-vis the transition between Montana and Young. Too lazy to go look for the article, but I recall reading it and had it stashed away in case it ever came up on Jeopardy or Trivial Pursuit.

BlueIsBetter wrote:
To be fair, I haven't ever seen Riley be impressive with my own two eyes. Again I don't care about the numbers. I'm not saying he's not a good quarterback, he certainly does what he does well, just the times I have seen him I haven't come away thinking, "Now that is a quarterback." More like, he can run but can he throw? And then it was like, yeah, kinda. I mentioned on Friday that his short passes look great. They are not on the money all the time, but he has good zip on anything within 20 yards. You can take that as being impressed. I haven't ever seen Lark in person, and he was impressive in the scrimmage.



And I agree, that if Jake gets hurt/can't play/can't take the pressure for anytime up tp game 4 or 5, Nelson comes in. Until lark comes up to speed about midway through the season. Then next year, we get to do this all again!!! But Lark will be a LOT better, and will contest for number 1! Everyone get new keyboards... Lol.



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Exactly. Literally EVERY (yes, I mean every) eye-witness account I've read has had the person saying that Heaps looked better, and Nelson flat out didn't look impressive. Going off a mixture of numbers, situational breakdowns, and eye-witness reports, it doesn't appear that this thing is as close as some are making it out to be.

BlueIsBetter wrote:

And I agree, that if Jake gets hurt/can't play/can't take the pressure for anytime up tp game 4 or 5, Nelson comes in. Until lark comes up to speed about midway through the season. Then next year, we get to do this all again!!! But Lark will be a LOT better, and will contest for number 1! Everyone get new keyboards... Lol.



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Thats a man after my own heart right there. While I might be the only one that thinks Lark deserves a fair shot on this whole board, I think it would be interesting to see how Lark would do given a few series with the ones vs. the ones. This past week you could argue he won 2 days with leading quality drives for TD's with the 2''s agianst the 2's and the 3's against the 3's. I wonder if given the talent of the first team, Lark would be able to look just as good or better than the other two quaterbacks. I think it would be telling either way to see if he is ready to compete for starting, or to just be the passing backup/3rd string.

I think James Lark has played well enough to earn some series this week against the ones.

I don't think he's ready to compete for number one. I think that he should get a few spots here and there to see what he can do. There is too much mission rust there, I watched him miss a couple throws he should make. Too bad he couldn't have gotten home 4 months sooner from his mission he'd be in a much better spot.



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Fifthqb, you better be ready for some backlash from the Nelson-camp.

Hey by the way, fifth, are you that guy out there throwing when all the other four qb's are throwing routes to receivers? You look pretty dang good. :-) Who is that guy. Pretty solid fundamentals. Maybe he is a grad assistant.

hawkwing wrote:

If you include (and I know you officialy can't so spare me the "a drop is an incompletion) 5 on the numbers, hit the hands, no excuse to not catch them drops, he goes 15-20, and those are good stats. Riley had a huge gain on a blown coverage. McKay actually stopped and waited about 3 seconds before jogging into the endzon. Take that away and he doesn't look good at all.

Dude, I know you have a serious man-crush on Heaps, but now you're just a flat our liar. McKay may have had to slow down his route to catch the ball, but if so, it wasn't much. Besides, Nelson had already over thrown McKay because he couldn't run under his 30 yard bomb so maybe he pulled up on it.



Both QBs have the arms to make all the throws that the BYU offense calls for.

Hawkwing, few posters have my respect as much as you, but I have to disagree on one smaller note. Nelson does not have all the throws. He cannot throw the out. Of course neither could Max and I would say that Nelson is no Max Hall. Beck could. Arm strength.

BlueIsBetter wrote:
I don't think he's ready to compete for number one. I think that he should get a few spots here and there to see what he can do. There is too much mission rust there, I watched him miss a couple throws he should make. Too bad he couldn't have gotten home 4 months sooner from his mission he'd be in a much better spot.



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Yeah, not that Lark needs to be competing for the top spot, but I think he's earned a a few series with the ones and/or against the ones.



To bad Lark also broke his leg which further delayed his mission.

First, Nelson hasn't really had a "chance," he's had a little playing time, but not much throwing time. It's possible the coaches feel he may deserve a game, or a first half, or something to prove what he can do throwing the ball.



Second, Heaps is the QB, Heaps knows it, Nelson knows it, we know it, and the coaches know it. Heaps got far more passing attempts in spring ball than Nelson, and he's getting far more passing attempts in fall camp than Nelson. Why? Because the coaches know Nelson is not going be their QB, and they know he can't really throw well, has poor mechanics, not much arm strength, etc. But he's a competitor, and he's tough, and he can run. So Heaps is going to be the QB, sooner or later, probably sooner. When the coaches gush about one of our QBs, it's Heaps, not Nelson, they gush over--that is revealing.



Third, If Nelson doesn't win the starting role, and he isn't going to, then Lark is going to be groomed more and more, because he is a passer, and a good one. Coaches will not waste time on a junior who can't throw.



Fourth, I think the coaches will name the starter sometime next week (not this week), so the starter will have a full week or more to prepare. And if Heaps, a true freshman, is going to be named the starter, the coaches are not going to wait until game time to announce that decision, no no way; it will be earlier than later. If it's going to be Nelson, they'll announce it before preparation for UW begins.



Fifth, I don't believe the coaches have even given a thought to whether or not UW knows who our QB is, it's irrelevant since neither QB has played, and Bronco has more important issues to deal with that fussing over Sarkisian and playing head games with UW.

jake is the future. he will start at some point this season if not the first game. lark will be number two and nelson will be a change of pace qb that comes in on 3rd and shorts and third and goals. he has great ability and will be used but nelson is not going to be our qb this year or next year.

hawkwing wrote:

If you include (and I know yo McKay actually stopped and waited about 3 seconds before jogging into the endzon.

Dude, I know you have a serious man-crush on Heaps, but now you're just a flat our liar. McKay may have had to slow down his route to catch the ball, but if so, it wasn't much. Besides, Nelson had already over thrown McKay because he couldn't run under his 30 yard bomb so maybe he pulled up on it.



Both QBs have the arms to make all the throws that the BYU offense calls for.

Hawk, I have to answer this. I have looked for 2 days to find any bootleg video, and it's not out there, so I don't have any "proof". And my word against yours, people are going to go yours, because your name is in blue (rightfully so) and mine just has blue in it. So hears how I remember what happened, and you tell me if you think it went different.



Riley was getting pressure from the right side, so he rolled out to the left side of the field. Spotted a wide open Jacobsen and nobody within 15 yards (that has been confirmed by multiple sources). Then proceeded to wind up and throw across field, about 30 yards in the air. Now, are you telling me that ball didn't take 3 seconds to get there? Jaconsen wasn't moving when I focused over to him. It was like a pitch and catch. And you are severely wrong about Nelson being able to make all the throws our offense demands. How do you explain his performance on saturday with four 3 and outs, and overall performance against the ones? And to some extent the twos?